The Reason Christianity is Dying in the West

[PetraG]

This guy gets it.

Particularly at the 3 minute mark is when it really picks up

Excuse me for saying so, but he disdains forgiveness, embraces rudeness, and believes that he can demand subservience from those who owe him collegial obedience and to whom he owes his service.

He is suggesting that the Church ought to lure the way the devil lures, by setting up an exclusionary glamour system. He talks like a proud and merciless tyrant. He sounds more like an Antichrist to me. He makes my skin crawl.

As for the original video, I do not know why this fellow thinks we are selling a product. We are not selling a product. That is not the problem. It is not that we don’t expect enough of everyone else. The scholars of the law who so incensed the Lord expected plenty of everyone else. They bound up “burdens difficult to carry.”

No, if we want the Church to be revitalized, it is we who have to take up the burdens. It is we who have to fast, give alms, touch the untouchable. It is we who have to say “yes” to grace. Anyone who looks at someone else and says, “that person has it too easy, that is the problem with the Church” is out in left field. That is not the way the saints have ever done it. The saints have always started with themselves.

 

[AndrewAxland]

He sounds more like an Antichrist to me. He makes my skin crawl.

I would take him up on his offer to go out his door. Whatever “hell” he created on the outside would be sheer heaven compared to the one he created on the inside.

 

[PetraG]

I would take him up on his offer to go out his door. Whatever “hell” he created on the outside would be sheer heaven compared to the one he created on the inside.

Anyone who teaches that love of God is fanaticism and blind loyalty rather than self-sacrificial love that starts with the speaker is a wolf, not a shepherd.

 

[joeybaggz]

Actually, one of the greatest enemies of Christianty in the west is tolerance. WE are far too tolerant of evil. And this isn’t a new idea. Fulton Sheen in the 60’s/70’s brought this idea up as observance was declining even then. In fact, I think one of the attractive features in the Pentecostal/Fundamentalist protestant sects is that they call a spade a spade. In some ways it is inhospitable and taken to an extreme, and often over the top and not in line with Catholic sense of charity, but the “haters” of the permissive movements of society are gaining an audience, everyday. People want something to believe in, not just some nice, fluffy, tolerant nonsense.
My $.02

 

[Viki63]

We have a new priest. (The previous one was hard working but was exhausted, and has retired.) The new priest is giving straightforward homilies that don’t pull punches, he has talked about abortion among other things. He stopped the practice of two collections except when the dioceses requires an extra one, and the income has increased substantially. I think the congregation has increased as well.
I would love to welcome new members or visitors, but there are so many people I don’t know who is new and who not. I restrict myself to inviting people to join the Bible Study.

 

[Axsenex]

Africa is the future…

 

[AndrewAxland]

Africa is the future…

I think you’re right, at least as far a the Church is concerned. If present trends continue (and there’s not a hint of them reversing), Christianity will be almost entirely confined to Africa. Its Western phase is drawing to a close.

 

[Constantin]

Do you really think Christianity will die? I do not really think so.
I think that it will become a minority among others and, as a consequence, more and more irrelevant to society in general. As society as a whole becomes more pluralistic and liberal it will become harder and harder for more conservative Christian communities not to run into trouble. There will not be any persecutions anytime soon,
but if you stay true to Christ, they will make you pay for it at some point, probably quite literally.
An example would be genetic engineering: If you refuse to tamper with the genes of your unborn child,
they will probably cut health support or increase insurance fees.
Another would be euthanasia: Those who refuse to kill old people will have to pay for it.
Yet another would be education: They will try to influence children more and more through public schools and kindergartens.
They will make it harder to home school, in many countries public schools have been mandatory for a long time. The list goes on.
In total, in the not too distant future, living up to Catholic convictions will require a substantial amount of energy and will power in everyday life. But those who are willing to pay the price will know what they are doing and why, they will not fall away. So in a way, Christianity will shrink to a hard core, it will be interesting to see what this will mean for ecumenism.

 

[OsculeturMeOsculo]

Everything will be fine, God is in control. I will do my part and advance in sanctity.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Everything will be fine, God is in control. I will do my part and advance in sanctity.

This is exactly how I feel every time somebody starts one of those threads about how the world/ the Church is going to hell in a handbasket because of this or that. In fact, since I grew up in the post-Vatican II era, I’ve been hearing unending discussions about this in all the decades before the Internet was invented as well.

There have been some serious challenges and we all need to pray for the Church and do our part.
But on the other hand, the gates of Hell shall not prevail against God’s church.

 

[exnihilo]

I don’t think the Church will die. It can’t since it is from God. But, the Church is dying in the sense of losing relevance and vitality in the West.

There will not be any persecutions anytime soon,

Oh there already are. Outside if the West you can be killed for your faith. In the West you won’t get killed. But you can lose your livelihood and certainly be ostracized if you practice the Faith. The more Christians trully practice their faith in the West the more obvious this would be.

 

[Constantin]

Yes, there are persecutions, but I was assuming we were talking about the West only.
I do not get why an increased number of practicing Christians would more clearly show that you can be ostracized or lose your livelihood for practicing.
Should it not be the other way round? The more practicing Christians there are, the more they are going to influence and transform society in a way that it becomes more welcoming to Christians?

 

[PetraG]

…the “haters” of the permissive movements of society are gaining an audience, everyday. People want something to believe in, not just some nice, fluffy, tolerant nonsense.
My $.02

What is our example?
While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he grew exasperated at the sight of the city full of idols…Now all the Athenians as well as the foreigners residing there used their time for nothing else but telling or hearing something new.
Then Paul stood up at the Areopagus and said: “You Athenians, I see that in every respect you are very religious. For as I walked around looking carefully at your shrines, I even discovered an altar inscribed, ‘To an Unknown God. What therefore you unknowingly worship, I proclaim to you.
The God who made the world and all that is in it, the Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in sanctuaries made by human hands, nor is he served by human hands because he needs anything. Rather it is he who gives to everyone life and breath and everything. He made from one the whole human race to dwell on the entire surface of the earth, and he fixed the ordered seasons and the boundaries of their regions, so that people might seek God, even perhaps grope for him and find him, though indeed he is not far from any one of us. For ‘In him we live and move and have our being,’* as even some of your poets have said, ‘For we too are his offspring.’ Since therefore we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the divinity is like an image fashioned from gold, silver, or stone by human art and imagination. God has overlooked the times of ignorance, but now he demands that all people everywhere repent because he has established a day on which he will ‘judge the world with justice’ through a man he has appointed, and he has provided confirmation for all by raising him from the dead.” When they heard about resurrection of the dead, some began to scoff, but others said, “We should like to hear you on this some other time.”
And so Paul left them. But some did join him, and became believers. Among them were Dionysius, a member of the Court of the Areopagus, a woman named Damaris, and others with them.
Acts 17:16,22-34

A Pope who says “we are done evangelizing” and “we aren’t opening any doors” and “forgiveness should not be easy” would have abandoned the Gospel and abandoned his duty. It wouldn’t matter how many “converts” he got, because he would not be converting them to the faith handed down to us from Our Lord through the Twelve.

Those who argue that things ought to be “hard” would have been the ones who didn’t want to give up circumcision or keeping kosher, would they not…the ones who think that we ought to attract people by giving them a feeling of “accomplishment” in what is required? That is what is being suggested.

 

[PetraG]

We have a new priest. (The previous one was hard working but was exhausted, and has retired.) The new priest is giving straightforward homilies that don’t pull punches, he has talked about abortion among other things. He stopped the practice of two collections except when the dioceses requires an extra one, and the income has increased substantially. I think the congregation has increased as well.
I would love to welcome new members or visitors, but there are so many people I don’t know who is new and who not. I restrict myself to inviting people to join the Bible Study.

The pastor has the ticket. Preach the Gospel and live it. Let those with the ears to hear it, hear it, but preach nothing more and nothing less than the unchanging faith and then do what you preach.

Shepherding or pruning is simply seeing what God intends and removing whatever interferes. That may mean making things easier or harder–those aren’t what is important. Making everything about handing all of life over to Christ for transformation into love of God and neighbor, that is what is important.

 

[QwertyGirl]

Actually, one of the greatest enemies of Christianty in the west is tolerance. WE are far too tolerant of evil. And this isn’t a new idea. Fulton Sheen in the 60’s/70’s brought this idea up as observance was declining even then. In fact, I think one of the attractive features in the Pentecostal/Fundamentalist protestant sects is that they call a spade a spade. In some ways it is inhospitable and taken to an extreme, and often over the top and not in line with Catholic sense of charity, but the “haters” of the permissive movements of society are gaining an audience, everyday. People want something to believe in, not just some nice, fluffy, tolerant

And yet, at the same time, I think it is reasonable to ask and try to answer that tired old (yet always relevant) question of
“What would Jesus do?” Imagine him walking the earth in today’s times. What would he really say and do? I don’t have the answer, but I think it is worth thinking about.

 

[PetraG]

And yet, at the same time, I think it is reasonable to ask and try to answer that tired old (yet always relevant) question of
“What would Jesus do?” Imagine him walking the earth in today’s times. What would he really say and do? I don’t have the answer, but I think it is worth thinking about.

He was adamant about the mercy available for those who were brought low and adamant about the need for repentance for those who were puffed up.

Nevertheless, there is also this vivid rebuke from Revelations to a wealthy but lukewarm church that ends on a note that shows that mercy is there for those who are awake enough to seek it:
“I know your works; I know that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.
For you say, ‘I am rich and affluent and have no need of anything,’ and yet do not realize that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.
I advise you to buy from me gold refined by fire so that you may be rich, and white garments to put on so that your shameful nakedness may not be exposed, and buy ointment to smear on your eyes so that you may see.
Those whom I love, I reprove and chastise. Be earnest, therefore, and repent.
"Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will enter his house and dine with him, and he with me." Rev 3:15-20

 

[joeybaggz]

And yet, at the same time, I think it is reasonable to ask and try to answer that tired old (yet always relevant) question of
“What would Jesus do?” Imagine him walking the earth in today’s times. What would he really say and do? I don’t have the answer, but I think it is worth thinking about.

Your post asks a reasonable and age old question. When I think of what you imagine, I go to the incident of the adulteress and the mob. Jesus showed her mercy, because according to Mosaic Law, the mob was right. The law called for her to be stoned to death. Why Jesus did not condemn her is a legitimate question; one we won’t get the answer to until we get to ask it of Him ourselves. But he also admonished her to “go and sin no more.” He was merciful to her, but at the same time, not tolerant of her sin.
I think that is the difference today. Yes we need mercy, but too often our tolerance becomes accommodation, which in turn leads to an acceptance of things not consistent with right moral behavior.

 

[steve-b]

In my RCC diocese, they announce a new “evangelism” program every 3 years. Everything is designed to try to bring people into the church, nothing is designed towards bringing anyone into the Catholic Faith, or towards conversion. They never ask why the last 10 programs failed, they do the same thing over again.

Pius IX identified in his day, erroneous thinking

in particular,

Excerpt:
III. INDIFFERENTISM, LATITUDINARIANISM

1. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true. – Allocution “Maxima quidem,” June 9, 1862; Damnatio “Multiplices inter,” June 10, 1851.
2. Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation. – Encyclical “Qui pluribus,” Nov. 9, 1846.
3. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ. – Encyclical “Quanto conficiamur,” Aug. 10, 1863, etc.
4. Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true Christian religion, in which form it is given to please God equally as in the Catholic Church. –
   Encyclical “Noscitis,” Dec. 8, 1849.

commenter:

Hospitality has been raised almost to the level of a sacrament. Dogmas are mentioned rarely, and only in the context of “we aren’t going to shove dogmas down anyone’s throat”, results , there is no particular reason to remain.

Using Ez 3:17-21, and these examples A=Catholic, B = someone doing wrong, Life=heaven, Death=hell, here’s 4 potential scenerios using those passages from Ezekiel

Scenario:

1. “If I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, in order to save his life, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand.” . IOW A gives B no warning. A & B are both screwed. Both die
2. “But if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, or from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you will have saved your life.” . IOW A gives B warning. B ignores the warning. A lives B is screwed.
3. “if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die; because you have not warned him, he shall die for his sin, and his righteous deeds which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand.” . IOW A gives B no warning. A is screwed. B is being B and is screwed and ALSO, his good works are not remembered
4. "Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man not to sin, and he does not sin, he shall surely live, because he took warning; and you will have saved your life.” . IOW A warns B and B listens and changes, A & B live

putting this as God sees it
I would do all I can to be in scenerio 2 & 4 and avoid #s 1 & 3 like the plague

 

[anon10271182]

Modern man has decided that he doesn’t need God to explain the existence of anything. Modern man has decided that he doesn’t need God for salvation because modern man does not need salvation. And modern man has decided that he doesn’t need the silence in and through which God speaks, because modern man finds silence terrifying

 

[QContinuum]

I think the reason Christianity is faltering in the West is because of its embrace of a modern, secular, amoral system: capitalism. It, like communism, was the fruit of the Enlightenment.

I base this on Matthew 6:21-24, and 1 Timothy 6:10.

Also, based on the fact that previous to the modern era, the Catholic Church uniformly and unconditionally condemned the practice of usury.

That capitalism reduces everything to a monetary value - including human life - and admits no greater goal than the pursuit of profit, is enough for me to consign it to the moral equivalent of communism. Both are morally bankrupt.

Until people see that Christians care more about God’s mission than defending their bank accounts, they will be seen as the fool who stored up his barn only to lose his life. And they will be summarily dismissed as fools.

I can’t understand how any Christian defends such a monstrous system. It has led to Christians putting profit before God, and the result of that poor witness has been that society now also looks and depends upon material wealth as the answer to life’s problems.