The reason most women leave their husbands

[cecilia97]

Well, I offered a “fix” in this post. Did I violate the rules of just listening and empathizing? Let me just offer this, too: when men offer a “fix” to your problems, that is their way of showing that they care. ** They figure, you have a problem, I love you, so I’m going to make you feel better by helping you make the problem go away. A woman, however, wants to know that their man “gets” them, that he cares, that he understands why they are feeling the way that they do. ** But just know that he probably cares more than you realize. The “guy way” sucks for women, though. It’s the way we are, and it’s something that we Martians need to work on.

It’s very true that most men and women are different in the ways you mention. I know a lot of female engineers and, oh boy, can they ever lay a fix on you when you need to whine about something! So, I would put most men and some women in the Martian group.

IMO, if people would SAY the two bolded sentences to each other, there would be a lot less misunderstanding about this. Admit we’re different, admit none of us is perfect, admit a spouse can’t make up for your own personal deficiencies…and then have a good time! Your idea to read books together was a good idea, I think.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Have you been married a long, long time? I’m just wondering how/why people give pat answers to complex issues. Are you saying your answer is right 100% of the time in all marriages? (TheAdvocate, I am not referring to your situation here, just trying to make the point to this poster that black&white pat answers usually don’t bring life and health to people…and I know from whence I speak, being married 27 yrs to someone I have almost no feelings for, and haven’t for decades…Maybe I’ll write about it later )

“It is about giving self to the other, period.” : OK, let’s say one spouse does all the giving, while the other is selfishly taking from the other pretty much all the time. Your answer just broke down, b/c it takes 2 to do what you’re saying. If it’s only one, and in many marriages this is the case, then the one doing all the giving of self is allowing the sin of selfishness in the other spouse to continue year after year after year…how does that benefit the sinner? Sometimes this scenario goes all the way to the selfish one severely abusing the “giver of self.”

This cycle can continue for decades, and *nothing has changed/improved b/c neither oneof the spouses changed or improved, *on how they were conducting their part of the marriage. The other posters who said it’s not all about “feeling” close, etc. are correct…sort of. There are stages and stages w/in a marriage, during which those feelings won’t get ya through! That said, it seems there’s a foundation built through that romantic stage that then may help later…but later stages don’t and aren’t supposed to feel/look the same as the early romantic/touchy stage. After all, it’s always been this way, except in arranged marriage cultures.

I think I’ve made a horrendous mistake in enabling my spouse, and therefore no one has grown or matured in this marriage. I did not have a good childhood, so I had no role models. Just trying to maintain a calm/good outward appearance can only be done just so long before 1 spouse begins to crack. It’s always better to just be honest up front.

That said, Advocate, I agree that your wife could have been honest a long time ago, forgiven and accepted your efforts a bit more selflessly. I applaud you, and am amazed at what you did for her. I can count on one hand in 27 yrs the number of dates my H has initiated. He waits for things to happen around him, and regretfully I would just initiate what I wanted instead of waiting for him. I got tired of asking and him not remembering what I said I wanted. I also need God “muchly” to guide my path. I am so weary of this, yet have 3 youngish children that need their Dad, and I, nor he, have a job right now.) If you get the chance be as honest and real as you can with her…it will help you to grow either way things turn out.

I am so sorry for what you are going through. I seems that you’ve learned a lot in 27 years, and yet the knowledge may have come too late.

I am only married for two years. Yes, I believe I could have given in more ways. I told her that the first two years are the hardest and they are the training ground. I then told her that we have gained so much knowledge about one another, why not put it to good use for the future? No avail. She gave up way too fast and used the “D” word only 6 months in.

Despite the misery you’ve been through for the past nearly 3 decades, I commend you for sticking with it. By today’s modern standard, my parents easily could have gotten a divorce. But they’re from the old country where marriage is marriage, commitment is commitment, you stay together no matter what (with very, very few exceptions).

I’ll keep you in my prayers tonight.

 

[Ann1231]

You’re right…this is another way that I fell short. I just wish my wife would have expressed it in the just the way you did. Instead, she belittled me, shamed me, made me feel inadequate as a husband. She can’t communicate her feelings w/o anger and strong emotion.

Let me give you a hint, though. I’m also reading the classic “Men are From Mars, Women are from Venus” book. In it, he recommends writing a letter to your spouse. There is a whole formula in the book on how to write such a letter, and how to respond to such a letter of your spouse. Read this book.

I bought a whole bunch of books when our marriage was failing, and I suggested to my wife that we read them together, talk about how it applies to our relationship, and then apply the advice from the various books. We did it once, then she stopped.

But read the book MAFMWAFV several times. It’s amazing how men and women are really different. It took me a long time to “get” what it means to listen with sympathy w/o judging or offering help.

Not to defend your husband, but men really do have a hard time with the whole “emotional bond” thing.

Well, I offered a “fix” in this post. Did I violate the rules of just listening and empathizing? Let me just offer this, too: when men offer a “fix” to your problems, that is their way of showing that they care. They figure, you have a problem, I love you, so I’m going to make you feel better by helping you make the problem go away. A woman, however, wants to know that their man “gets” them, that he cares, that he understands why they are feeling the way that they do. But just know that he probably cares more than you realize. The “guy way” sucks for women, though. It’s the way we are, and it’s something that we Martians need to work on.

I will pray for you tonight, and I thank you for your prayers.

And thanks for such a sincere post.

Thank YOU for the book idea and for the “fix”
I don’t mind suggestions at all. It’s the -taking it out of my hand cuz you know better- type of fix that almost seems like a lack of confidence in my abilities or trust in me that bugs me. I do know that my husband cares very much for me. That’s not in question. It’s the emptiness of the relationship that is overwhelming. I will take your suggestions of reading the book and all to heart.

I am so sorry that your wife belittles you. That’s horrible and you deserve much better than that. NO one has the right to treat you that way, most of all your spouse who should love and cherish you above herself!

There’s not a single one of us that is the perfect spouse, I hope your wife realizes that she needs to work on the marriage and not just expect you to do all the work and change!

As for me, I’ve been doing a lot of praying about my attitude and that I will WANT to love my husband more and be more attracted to him. It’s a delicate dance and I keep tripping on my shoe laces…

You’re in my prayers.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Dude, I am so sorry for you. As a guy, we get a bad wrap sometimes. Watch the movie , “Fireproof” If I was married to a woman like that, I’D be the one filing for divorce!

There is only so much one should be expected to do-remember that. If the other person has abusrdly high demands-then maybe it’s best you let her walk and find a more rational person.

Not enough attention is giving to men in divorce-it’s not always our fault, women can break marriages and hearts as well.

I’m praying for you my friend. Best of luck to you.

Oh, Lordie, I saw Fireproof with my wife. Through it all, she would just say to me, “See? That’s how I’m feeling!” and "Why can’t you be like the husband at the movie who (SPOILERS BELOW)…

…gets down and his knees and cries and begs for forgiveness?

I too was shocked that the woman in the movie could be so cold. But that’s exactly the kind of thing that Haltzman is talking about in his book.

Anyway, I would then say to my wife (in regards to the movie), “See? Salt and Pepper are different but they’re meant to stay together! Divorce is not the answer!”

For crying out loud, that was the whole message of the movie! And she left about a month after we watched it!

 

[Ann1231]

It’s very true that most men and women are different in the ways you mention. I know a lot of female engineers and, oh boy, can they ever lay a fix on you when you need to whine about something! So, I would put most men and some women in the Martian group.

IMO, if people would SAY the two bolded sentences to each other, there would be a lot less misunderstanding about this. Admit we’re different, admit none of us is perfect, admit a spouse can’t make up for your own personal deficiencies…and then have a good time! Your idea to read books together was a good idea, I think.

this is so funny. I honestly think a great deal of my marriage problems is because my husband is an engineer! sounds odd but those married to engineers will totally understand. they come from a 3rd planet that has yet to be named

 

[cecilia97]

this is so funny. I honestly think a great deal of my marriage problems is because my husband is an engineer! sounds odd but those married to engineers will totally understand. they come from a 3rd planet that has yet to be named

Oh my gosh, you are right! My father is a chemical engineer, my ex husband was a nuclear engineer, and 5 of my girlfriends are mechanical and chemical engineers. My poor mother, what she has put up with for 42 years!

 

[gretahope]

this is so funny. I honestly think a great deal of my marriage problems is because my husband is an engineer! sounds odd but those married to engineers will totally understand. they come from a 3rd planet that has yet to be named

Hmmm…me too, AND my dad is an engineer, and so was the man I almost married. Ouch! Yes, different solar system.

The issue tho is when it goes far, far into neverland…like in the case of Thomas Edison. Gulp. Great mind/inventor…but just read about his marriage. I think he essentially lived in his workshop , called his children 'dot and dash" instead of their given names, b/c he was so happy with his telegraph invention. His wife I think was just so severely neglected that…well…I’m not sure exactly what happened.

On a good note tho I highly recommend you all looking into taking the Myers-Briggs test. At least it helps seeing the spouse a lot more clearly!!! We are complete opposites: ISFP (H) vs ENTJ (me) (I am equal F and T tho) Anyway—the ISFP can go off into another world, getting absorbed in a project and forget to eat, use the toilet, blink, swallow…

God bless us all here, struggling and straining towards our call!

 

[SarahR]

I am only married for two years. Yes, I believe I could have given in more ways. I told her that the first two years are the hardest and they are the training ground. I then told her that we have gained so much knowledge about one another, why not put it to good use for the future? No avail. She gave up way too fast and used the “D” word only 6 months in.

Oh, you have been married 2 years? I thought, from reading your post, that you were dealing with a wife who had felt utterly neglected for at least a dozen or more years… wow I’m sorry for what you’re going through.

 

[Rascalking]

I too was shocked that the woman in the movie could be so cold. But that’s exactly the kind of thing that Haltzman is talking about in his book.
!

I’m so sorry for your loss, man. I’m single-so I don’t really know how that feels. However, when I saw that movie I was shocked. The main female character was so weak-she was ready to love someone else quit quickly! She was unlikeable.

I know alot of women are affected my porn, bad husbands, etc-it breaks my heart. No one deserves that.

However, no one deserves to be married to someone who is manipulative, selfish, cold, distant, and disloyal-just like the girl in the movie.

Men get their hearts broken too ladies. Never forget that.

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

The real lesson here is not a new one I read it in catholic advice written decades ago for those considering marriage.

The basic advice been don’t just marry someone for sentimental reasons, sentiments ebb and flow like the tide and when they are absent there needs to be something a lot more solid as a foundation to hold things together.

"Is Love Necessary for a Happy Marriage?

Question: Is love necessary for a happy marriage?

Answer: It depends on what you mean by “love”. I might add that it also depends on what you mean by marriage, but we shall take for granted that you mean what the Lord meant, viz., an indissoluble sacramental partnership between a man and a woman who pledge themselves to help each other toward happiness on earth and in heaven, and to beget and rear children for the kingdom of God.

What do you mean by “love”? Do you mean that violent feeling of attraction, that all-suffering sense of helpless infatuation, that overpowering “can’t-think-of-anything-else” emotion, which the pulps, true story magazines and mashy novels describe as love? If you do, my answer is a quick “no”. This kind of love is not necessary because there have been thousands of happy marriages without it, from those in which the bridegroom was chosen for the bride (or vice versa) by elders, as was customary for centuries, down to the latest marriage of two young people who kept their wits about them all through their company-keeping and engagement. The wild infatuation that some mistake for love is a minor form of hysteria, and hysteria is not only not necessary for, but a positive drawback to, a happy marriage.

But if you define love correctly, I say that it is absolutely necessary for a happy marriage. Love is an intelligent willingness to surrender self-will, to make sacrifices, to place fidelity, charity and duty above feelings, in behalf of a person whom one has found to be a good companion, a sturdy character, and a believer in the same purposes of life and marriage as oneself. The degree of physical and emotional attraction behind this determination of the free will may vary greatly, but it is never the essence of love. Too many young people have thought otherwise, to the effect that, with the inevitable lessening of infatuation after a year or two of married life, they have considered themselves no longer in love. Love is a function of the free will, and it can last as long as the free will exercises itself according to the above definition. Therefore, to say “I am in love” should mean “I am willing to surrender my will, to sacrifice my desires, to place duty and fidelity above all else, in behalf of one person whom I have found suitable for a successful marriage.”

Is Love Sufficient for a Happy Marriage?

Problem: If one is deeply in love with a certain person, is not that sufficient for a happy marriage, even though others advise against the marriage? I am in love with a young man, and want to marry him, but everybody tells me he won’t make me happy. I am so happy just being in love with him that I know I’ll be happy in marriage.

Solution: It has been set down as one of the most futile things in life to argue with a young person already in love, who believes that the happiness of being in love is a true measure of the happiness that will be found in marriage. However, those of us who are interested in the happiness of married folk will still go on trying to convince young people of the danger of this mistake.

You say that everybody tells you that the young man you love cannot make you happy in marriage. I presume that this means your parents, your pastor or confessor, your close friends. Such unanimity can hardly be a result of conspiracy against you, or unfounded on good reasons. With eyes undimmed by the infatuation that makes you a poor judge of your boy friend, they must see something in his character that makes him unfit for the responsibilities of marriage. Perhaps he is shiftless and undependable; perhaps a drunkard; perhaps unprincipled or irreligious. After all, there are thousands of divorces in America each year, and tens of thousands of broken hearted wives. Can’t you see that most of the latter married because they were breathlessly in love, and only afterward, too late, found out that love is not sufficient for a happy marriage?

You did not tell me on what ground everybody opposes your marriage to this boy, and therefore I do not say for certain that their opposition is justified. There is a good presumption that it is, however, from the fact that it is unanimous. I do say firmly, however, that you are clinging to a false principle when you say that “because you are happy just being in love with your boy friend, you know you’ll be happy in marriage.” It takes more than love, I assure you, to make a marriage happy, and sometimes it is only your parents, pastor, and good friends, who can tell you whether that something is present or absent."

Questions Young People Ask Before Marriage by Donald F. Miller, C.SS.R.

The only thing you did wrong Advocate is probably marry the wrong woman, a mistake that is easy to make especially when marriage advice is so wishy washy due to a desire by most people to avoid upsetting us by only telling us what we want to hear, how many people today advise people to break up with their girlfriends? Not many.

If your not convinced just consider all the loyal women who stick with guys who abuse them daily and treat them like ****.

Just as you get good men and bad men you also get good women and bad women, cold and calculating women and warm and loving women, the trick is to learn to tell which is which.

 

[mark_a]

Lol…you guys made my day, thanks.

I think of our grandparents and great-grandparents, who stayed married through fairly bad conditions and rarely had flowers or date nights. Yes, some spouses took advantage and were abusive, etc. But for the most part, couples got married and started getting on with the business of life together. They did not expect the other person to be everything to them…they expected them to be a spouse.

And, maybe because divorcing was just not an option in many cases, problems looked less like this:

“I love my husband BUT he just doesn’t make me happy anymore. Woe is us!”

…and more like this:

“I love my husband AND he just doesn’t make me happy anymore. Hmmm…wonder how we can change that?”

Now, I can’t take credit for that cool but/and trick…it’s something I’m learning in my graduate psych program. But, when I first heard it, I thought of Grandma and Grandpa.

This is pure gold!

 

[cecilia97]

This is pure gold!

Now, Mark, stop puffing up my ego, please! But if I run for Prez, I’ll be sure to let you know.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I’m not sure if the reason most women leave theire husbands is because lack of “warm fuzzies”

I’ve been married for about 13 years. It hasn’t always been easy…we’ve had struggles…many, many struggles.

But I know the marriage improved when we both returned to the Church.

For marriage to work, we need to put God first. We do that, then every thing else is easier.

Maybe instead of John Grey marriage advice ( I bought those books as well…went into the recycling bin) I truly recommend a CD series by Father Corapi…

.fathercorapi.com/The-Sanctity-of-Marriage-P235.aspx

fathercorapi.com/Matrimony-Humanae-Vitae-2-Talks-P144.aspx

They are really very good…

Prayers for you during this difficult time.

 

[faithfully]

I had read a quote somewhere… and cut it out. It’s on our bathroom mirror.

A marriage is like a garden. You must tend to it always. If you ignore it. It withers and dies.

 

[Scoobyshme]

Have you been married a long, long time? I’m just wondering how/why people give pat answers to complex issues. Are you saying your answer is right 100% of the time in all marriages? (TheAdvocate, I am not referring to your situation here, just trying to make the point to this poster that black&white pat answers usually don’t bring life and health to people…and I know from whence I speak, being married 27 yrs to someone I have almost no feelings for, and haven’t for decades…Maybe I’ll write about it later )

“It is about giving self to the other, period.” : OK, let’s say one spouse does all the giving, while the other is selfishly taking from the other pretty much all the time. Your answer just broke down, b/c it takes 2 to do what you’re saying. If it’s only one, and in many marriages this is the case, then the one doing all the giving of self is allowing the sin of selfishness in the other spouse to continue year after year after year…how does that benefit the sinner? Sometimes this scenario goes all the way to the selfish one severely abusing the “giver of self.”

This cycle can continue for decades, and *nothing has changed/improved b/c neither oneof the spouses changed or improved, *on how they were conducting their part of the marriage. The other posters who said it’s not all about “feeling” close, etc. are correct…sort of. There are stages and stages w/in a marriage, during which those feelings won’t get ya through! That said, it seems there’s a foundation built through that romantic stage that then may help later…but later stages don’t and aren’t supposed to feel/look the same as the early romantic/touchy stage. After all, it’s always been this way, except in arranged marriage cultures.

I think I’ve made a horrendous mistake in enabling my spouse, and therefore no one has grown or matured in this marriage. I did not have a good childhood, so I had no role models. Just trying to maintain a calm/good outward appearance can only be done just so long before 1 spouse begins to crack. It’s always better to just be honest up front.

That said, Advocate, I agree that your wife could have been honest a long time ago, forgiven and accepted your efforts a bit more selflessly. I applaud you, and am amazed at what you did for her. I can count on one hand in 27 yrs the number of dates my H has initiated. He waits for things to happen around him, and regretfully I would just initiate what I wanted instead of waiting for him. I got tired of asking and him not remembering what I said I wanted. I also need God “muchly” to guide my path. I am so weary of this, yet have 3 youngish children that need their Dad, and I, nor he, have a job right now.) If you get the chance be as honest and real as you can with her…it will help you to grow either way things turn out.

Hi, Greta!

I’ve been married almost 40 years, thanks.

The nature of sacramental marriage is sacrifice. (Note the similarity in words: Sacrament/Sacrifice) Sacrifice doesn’t mean things are hunky dorey for you. It means that you are willing to give everything, regardless of whether you “get back” or not. It means you stick it out even if you’re not happy. (Now, I’m not saying you have to stay in a relationship where you’re being abused. That’s different.) But Christ loves us unconditionally, in a sacrificial sort of way. That’s how we are to love our spouses! For better OR worse. In sickness and in health. To death do you part. Some people, for reasons of their own, are not capable of giving as much as the other spouse. Some are self-centered to a disordered degree. The spouse, I think, who IS aware and capable has an obligation to his/her spouse to offer prayer, penance, and sacrifice for the conversion of the other spouse. Even if one is unhappy (in the current meaning of the word vs. the theological meaning), one should be grateful to God for the opportunity to suffer and grow spiritually. How is gold purified? By lots of heat! The heat melts the gold and burns off the debris. Same for steel. It is tempered by putting it in the fire! And, so it is with us. Without a Good Friday, we cannot have an Easter Sunday. We have to have a cross in our lives. Sometimes our Cross is sitting beside us in life.

And it may take a long time before the “bad spouse” converts. St. Monica prayed for her son, St. Augustine, for 30 years before he straightened out. Guess where they both are now? Think she believes it was worth it? You betcha!

In your case, you have a great opportunity to offer up your suffering for your spouse. Hopefully, one day in heaven, he can thank you for your efforts. And maybe you’ll come to the realization that God put you two together just for the purpose of helping him convert to Christ. Just something to think about, eh?

 

[Ann1231]

Hi, Greta!

I’ve been married almost 40 years, thanks.

The nature of sacramental marriage is sacrifice. (Note the similarity in words: Sacrament/Sacrifice) Sacrifice doesn’t mean things are hunky dorey for you. It means that you are willing to give everything, regardless of whether you “get back” or not. It means you stick it out even if you’re not happy. (Now, I’m not saying you have to stay in a relationship where you’re being abused. That’s different.) But Christ loves us unconditionally, in a sacrificial sort of way. That’s how we are to love our spouses! For better OR worse. In sickness and in health. To death do you part. Some people, for reasons of their own, are not capable of giving as much as the other spouse. Some are self-centered to a disordered degree. The spouse, I think, who IS aware and capable has an obligation to his/her spouse to offer prayer, penance, and sacrifice for the conversion of the other spouse. Even if one is unhappy (in the current meaning of the word vs. the theological meaning), one should be grateful to God for the opportunity to suffer and grow spiritually. How is gold purified? By lots of heat! The heat melts the gold and burns off the debris. Same for steel. It is tempered by putting it in the fire! And, so it is with us. Without a Good Friday, we cannot have an Easter Sunday. We have to have a cross in our lives. Sometimes our Cross is sitting beside us in life.

And it may take a long time before the “bad spouse” converts. St. Monica prayed for her son, St. Augustine, for 30 years before he straightened out. Guess where they both are now? Think she believes it was worth it? You betcha!

In your case, you have a great opportunity to offer up your suffering for your spouse. Hopefully, one day in heaven, he can thank you for your efforts. And maybe you’ll come to the realization that God put you two together just for the purpose of helping him convert to Christ. Just something to think about, eh?

wow, very wise, very wonderful post. thank you for sharing your thoughts. I’m not the op but I greatly appreciate this!!

 

[Scoobyshme]

wow, very wise, very wonderful post. thank you for sharing your thoughts. I’m not the op but I greatly appreciate this!!

Anne, merci beaucoup! (Thanks a bunch.) God bless!

 

[Corinne3]

Dude, I am so sorry for you. As a guy, we get a bad wrap sometimes. Watch the movie , “Fireproof” If I was married to a woman like that, I’D be the one filing for divorce!

.

LOL…I got the recommendation to see this movie, “Fireproof” with my husband, because of his 20 year porn habit, all throughout our marriage, then of course, as you know from my threads, it escalating to his strip club habit. But, when we got out of this movie, I asked him how he liked it? ALL he said was “that wife was a *****”…

So it’s funny you said that…although this does not excuse any husband from having a porn or strip-club habit…

 

[Corinne3]

And to the OP, all I have to say is WOW! if I had a husband who did these things for me, and was faithful, like you have been, I’d spread out the gold carpet for him every single day, rub his feet, treasure him, and love him to pieces!!! I’d be the happiest woman on earth, and know what? I could care less if he was fat, bald, greying or whatever. I would know he adored me, and was a man of the Lord. This is all that matters to me.

Your wife may be a fool. like my husband is one too. Still, I do look at the vows WE made friend.

God Bless You~

 

[gretahope]

Hi, Greta!

I’ve been married almost 40 years, thanks.

The nature of sacramental marriage is sacrifice. (Note the similarity in words: Sacrament/Sacrifice) Sacrifice doesn’t mean things are hunky dorey for you. It means that you are willing to give everything, regardless of whether you “get back” or not. It means you stick it out even if you’re not happy. (Now, I’m not saying you have to stay in a relationship where you’re being abused. That’s different.) But Christ loves us unconditionally, in a sacrificial sort of way. That’s how we are to love our spouses! For better OR worse. In sickness and in health. To death do you part. Some people, for reasons of their own, are not capable of giving as much as the other spouse. Some are self-centered to a disordered degree. The spouse, I think, who IS aware and capable has an obligation to his/her spouse to offer prayer, penance, and sacrifice for the conversion of the other spouse. Even if one is unhappy (in the current meaning of the word vs. the theological meaning), one should be grateful to God for the opportunity to suffer and grow spiritually. How is gold purified? By lots of heat! The heat melts the gold and burns off the debris. Same for steel. It is tempered by putting it in the fire! And, so it is with us. Without a Good Friday, we cannot have an Easter Sunday. We have to have a cross in our lives. Sometimes our Cross is sitting beside us in life.

And it may take a long time before the “bad spouse” converts. St. Monica prayed for her son, St. Augustine, for 30 years before he straightened out. Guess where they both are now? Think she believes it was worth it? You betcha!

In your case, you have a great opportunity to offer up your suffering for your spouse. Hopefully, one day in heaven, he can thank you for your efforts. And maybe you’ll come to the realization that God put you two together just for the purpose of helping him convert to Christ. Just something to think about, eh?

I appreciate this and thank you for the happy ending spiritual piece of this. In my parents’ case, there is no “aware” spouse, neither are they Catholic. We’ve been abused and my mother has shut down, seemed to enable my father. In fact, my mom said to me one time regarding my dad’s soul, “that’s his choice”–ie, seems she checked out of that part a long time ago.

So, what you’re saying is the ideal sacrificial rel’t, when things are not going well…but ONE spouse is engaged, praying, and has faith.