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Scoobyshme
Guest
Well, almost. If you want the ideal relationship, BOTH are praying, sacrificing, etc., for one another.
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AngelRS
Guest
We have to remember that men and women view the world differently and always will. Women are very into the emotional and sentimental. Men REALLY are wired to want to problem solve. That is their way of trying to help their woman feel better. We need to tell them clearly “I just need you to listen to me for now, don’t try to solve the problem just yet, please, just listen”. Often we expect our men to behave like our girlfriends and they can’t because they AREN’T!
Marriage is unlike other relationships - the union is unique and the components are, too. Too often we expect the other to just know what they have to do to satisfy our needs but it doesn’t work that way and we need to communicate to share and see that the other understands what we’re trying to say.
It’s sad if a marriage ends for “simple” reasons that more talking and honest, loving sharing could have remedied. Here’s praying for all the married, those still together and those separated.
Jesus, Mary and Joseph, pray for us.
Marriage is unlike other relationships - the union is unique and the components are, too. Too often we expect the other to just know what they have to do to satisfy our needs but it doesn’t work that way and we need to communicate to share and see that the other understands what we’re trying to say.
It’s sad if a marriage ends for “simple” reasons that more talking and honest, loving sharing could have remedied. Here’s praying for all the married, those still together and those separated.
Jesus, Mary and Joseph, pray for us.
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gretahope
Guest
I want to believe and respect what you say…could you please look at this new thread and comment? thx!Hi, Greta!
I’ve been married almost 40 years, thanks.
The nature of sacramental marriage is sacrifice. (Note the similarity in words: Sacrament/Sacrifice) Sacrifice doesn’t mean things are hunky dorey for you. It means that you are willing to give everything, regardless of whether you “get back” or not. It means you stick it out even if you’re not happy. (Now, I’m not saying you have to stay in a relationship where you’re being abused. That’s different.) But Christ loves us unconditionally, in a sacrificial sort of way. That’s how we are to love our spouses! For better OR worse. In sickness and in health. To death do you part. Some people, for reasons of their own, are not capable of giving as much as the other spouse. Some are self-centered to a disordered degree. The spouse, I think, who IS aware and capable has an obligation to his/her spouse to offer prayer, penance, and sacrifice for the conversion of the other spouse. Even if one is unhappy (in the current meaning of the word vs. the theological meaning), one should be grateful to God for the opportunity to suffer and grow spiritually. How is gold purified? By lots of heat! The heat melts the gold and burns off the debris. Same for steel. It is tempered by putting it in the fire! And, so it is with us. Without a Good Friday, we cannot have an Easter Sunday. We have to have a cross in our lives. Sometimes our Cross is sitting beside us in life.
And it may take a long time before the “bad spouse” converts. St. Monica prayed for her son, St. Augustine, for 30 years before he straightened out. Guess where they both are now? Think she believes it was worth it? You betcha!
In your case, you have a great opportunity to offer up your suffering for your spouse. Hopefully, one day in heaven, he can thank you for your efforts. And maybe you’ll come to the realization that God put you two together just for the purpose of helping him convert to Christ. Just something to think about, eh?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=363724
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gretahope
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Ideally, two are doing this; but at the least, one. That was my point. thx
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bumby
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I would agree with the OP. I have, unfortunately, thought of leaving my husband because he doesn’t seem to care about satisfying my needs sexually (and intrinsically linked to this - my emotional needs). I think if we don’t resolve this, I will eventually leave.
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gretahope
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\
Again, it takes two to make a marriage. With one being lonely, scared, left “holding the bag” it clearly takes LOTS OF GRACE and help.
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TheAdvocate
Guest
Hi, Bumby, OP here. My situation is obviously different than yours (every story is remarkably unique), but in my case, I was willing to satisfy her sexually, but she felt neglected emotionally, felt I didn’t care, etc.
But let me ask you this. At the beginning of this year, when things really got sour, as I stated in my original post, I did make an effort to turn things around. The problem is, her attitude was “too little, too late,” and “you are only showing me this renewed interest because you’re afraid of divorce–it didn’t come from YOU.” So anyway, my question is, What would you do if he started to make an effort like I did? Would you credit him for it, for at least trying, or has your heart so turned to stone that everything he would do or say would just bounce right off it? (=my situation).
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cmscms
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I am really sorry OP you are going through this. I am a woman who has never been married. However, if I was married and my husband brought me flowers and I put them on his windshield, you could be sure that would be my way of saying ‘I can’t believe he was so stupid to think this could help’. Sorry that was harsh but IMO it is exactly what she said.
When you tried to change things and she said ‘too little too late’, my suspicion is she was really saying ‘I have no idea what I want but society has told me it is romance. I decided to listen to society and complain until I get romance. Now that I have it I am realizing society is wrong. I have no idea what I want so I will leave you. I do not want to take responsibility for figuring out what I need so I will just blame you. After all, the feminist would back me up on this’
My heart bleeds for you because you are obviously trying really hard at a loosing game. All you can do is PRAY. Pray to God. Ask God ‘what do I need to do’ and act on God’s will. You can’t change the past. Make your future as close to God as possible
CM
When you tried to change things and she said ‘too little too late’, my suspicion is she was really saying ‘I have no idea what I want but society has told me it is romance. I decided to listen to society and complain until I get romance. Now that I have it I am realizing society is wrong. I have no idea what I want so I will leave you. I do not want to take responsibility for figuring out what I need so I will just blame you. After all, the feminist would back me up on this’
My heart bleeds for you because you are obviously trying really hard at a loosing game. All you can do is PRAY. Pray to God. Ask God ‘what do I need to do’ and act on God’s will. You can’t change the past. Make your future as close to God as possible
CM
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TheAdvocate
Guest
Thank you for the candor—nothing else will do. I don’t know what else to do—prayer is all I’ve got, but I fear I am beginning to lose faith a bit.
I think you are correct about her feminist/secular schooling of marriage.
Gosh, my parents easily could have gotten a divorce. My dad was an addicted gambler and we went bankrupt twice. My mom, in order to get his attention, turned to drinking. There was no romance in those old-fashioned marriages, or at least it played a smaller role. My parents never went to date night—ever.
But what they did have was commitment. Good or bad, they were married and they stuck together, and they are better for it today. And so am I.
I am not saying that romance isn’t important in today’s day and age, but first there has to be a commitment to the notion of marriage, namely that it’s a union by and in Christ that is indissoluble. As much as possible, if it isn’t working, you make it work. But these days people just give up so soon.
I have serious doubts regarding the sacramentality of our marriage and am sorely tempted to initiate the divorce myself. We’ve been living apart for 6 months now, she already filed the papers, but it’s taking her lawyers forever to serve me—I don’t know if they’re too busy or what. I just want to put the “marriage” out of its misery and move on with my life.
Anyway, thanks for listening…
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marymary1975
Guest
ooh I am so sorry for what you are going through. I agree with Cecilia97 on everything. She is right on the target. Looks like you really and sincerely tried and I think she should had given you a chance. I am divorced too but my situation was different. My exhusband was abusive and had a drug addiction and he didn’t even want to try to change. Had he accepted at least to go to treatment I would had stayed with him. She is given you a lttle too late when she hasn’t even given you a first chance, I don’t think is right. Anyway, you’ll be in my prayers.
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marymary1975
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Cecilia this is pure wisdom!
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bumby
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I would give my husband a second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth chance. Maybe I would ‘forgive not seven times but seventy-seven times’ like JC said.
I do love him and I am praying a lot about our situation and being positive that things can change. I am trying my best to put my whole trust in God to mend our situation and help us to become better spouses to one another.Your wife needs to believe you are doing this for her because you love her, not because you don’t want her to go because of the benefits she might give you, for example. Maybe you can do things to show her your true intentions. What that may be, I’m not sure. But give it time. If you continue to act in this new way, then surely she will see that you are being serious?
I will pray for you both.
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odile53
Guest
I don’t know about why most women leave their husbands, but I can tell you about my own marriage. Sometimes it’s great. We connect on an emotional, intellectual, and physical level. Sometimes it approaches the spiritual. And there are some times that it feels like I’ve served fifteen years on a twenty-five to life sentence! Tonight is one such night, after an argument today concerning, of all the ridiculous things, how to put up a sail on our sailboat. That’s part of the story. The rest of it was that he had had a few drinks already, and sometimes when he is drinking he becomes unreasonable, overbearing, and just plain obnoxious. When he started to throw stuff (like a beer can, forcibly onto the foredeck) I took it as my clue to get off the boat (at the dock) and go home. I assume he’s opted to spend the night on the boat, which is just fine with me: He probably shouldn’t be driving, anyways. And quite frankly, with the headache I have right now, I’m in no mood for the emotion party to move from the boat to the living room, or whatever room in the house! Sometimes both people just need to cool down. And sometimes, as in our case, we need to find out why we can’t seem to enjoy the sailboat without getting into some sort of ridiculous petty argument that escalates. But that needs to happen in the cool light of reason, uncharged by emotion (and beer) and preferably will occur on terra firma.
I can assure you this: If he were to try to smooth things over by doing something as silly as scattering rose petals leading to the bedroom (that probably I would have to later try to vacuum up, by the way) I would be incensed!
I don’t subscribe to the Martian versus Venutian theory. Men are NOT from Mars and women are NOT from Venus, last time I checked. We’re from planet Earth. And both genders are human. Presumably, we speak the same language. Men and women are really a lot more similar than they are different, with due apologies to Pope John Paul II. If you need a blood transfusion, it doesn’t matter if the donor was male or female. If you need rest, a nourishing meal, or spiritual rejuvenation, it doesn’t matter what gender you are. Nor does it matter if you need friendship.
Romantic gestures are probably all well and good, but they are absolutely no substitute for treating one’s marriage partner like exactly that–a partner. A fellow human being, with basic human needs. A fellow sojourner trying to work out his/her own salvation on this good mother earth that God has placed here to support our feet as we trudge toward His glory.
I don’t subscribe to the notion that women leave their husbands because of lack of romance, or men leave their wives because of wanderlust. Usually there are a lot more basic needs that have been long neglected before those types of things occur.
Only each of us, in the light of his/her own conscience, can successfully look back and identify what we have done and what we have failed to do during the course of our marriages.
Sorry this response is peevish. No, I’m not thinking of leaving him over the stupid boat, But I am thinking long and hard about putting myself in a similar situation in the near future. Right now the words “boat” and “beer” make me want to take a couple of aspirin and crawl into the hot tub!
I can assure you this: If he were to try to smooth things over by doing something as silly as scattering rose petals leading to the bedroom (that probably I would have to later try to vacuum up, by the way) I would be incensed!
I don’t subscribe to the Martian versus Venutian theory. Men are NOT from Mars and women are NOT from Venus, last time I checked. We’re from planet Earth. And both genders are human. Presumably, we speak the same language. Men and women are really a lot more similar than they are different, with due apologies to Pope John Paul II. If you need a blood transfusion, it doesn’t matter if the donor was male or female. If you need rest, a nourishing meal, or spiritual rejuvenation, it doesn’t matter what gender you are. Nor does it matter if you need friendship.
Romantic gestures are probably all well and good, but they are absolutely no substitute for treating one’s marriage partner like exactly that–a partner. A fellow human being, with basic human needs. A fellow sojourner trying to work out his/her own salvation on this good mother earth that God has placed here to support our feet as we trudge toward His glory.
I don’t subscribe to the notion that women leave their husbands because of lack of romance, or men leave their wives because of wanderlust. Usually there are a lot more basic needs that have been long neglected before those types of things occur.
Only each of us, in the light of his/her own conscience, can successfully look back and identify what we have done and what we have failed to do during the course of our marriages.
Sorry this response is peevish. No, I’m not thinking of leaving him over the stupid boat, But I am thinking long and hard about putting myself in a similar situation in the near future. Right now the words “boat” and “beer” make me want to take a couple of aspirin and crawl into the hot tub!
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jmcrae
Guest
We went through a phase like that in our marriage, too. Several things happened.
First, we decided that when he is doing some kind of physical project, I leave him alone, even if I have a better idea of how to put the thing together. If he breaks something, he fixes it himself - I don’t clean up after him.
Second, we had a very civilized discussion about the drinking, with all the “I” statements that we learned in Engaged Encounter.
We both realized that we don’t function very well when we’ve been drinking, so we implemented a ban on alcohol in the house. Doesn’t mean that we can’t enjoy a cold one when out with friends, but no alcohol in the house, ever. This is working - no more irrational fights.
This, by the way, was his idea - which is probably why it’s working. 
I happened to mention something about it to my Dad, and my Dad had a chat with him, as well - about what, I don’t know, but he became much more even-tempered after that, as well.
Dads are good to have. I’m not sure how I would have reacted to something like that, either. To me, it would feel like he was frantically trying to change the subject - like I’m not supposed to notice that he broke a window, because now he’s being romantic?
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TheAdvocate
Guest
Well, with regard to the rose pedals, it was Valentine’s Day and I was just trying to make it special. I had the roses, I had the whole day planned… When I saw the roses, I noticed a couple of the pedals were a little loose. Upon pulling them off, I thought to myself…well, you know the rest.
I think that days like Valentine’s are good for a truce, much like birthdays and Christmas. Unfortunately, she got me nothing for V.D.—nothing at all.
I think that days like Valentine’s are good for a truce, much like birthdays and Christmas. Unfortunately, she got me nothing for V.D.—nothing at all.
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odile53
Guest
I guess my point concerning the rose petals is that if things were strained, I’d see rose petals all over the place as one more mess that I needed to clean up, not as a romantic gesture. Like I said, romantic gestures are fine, but have something that makes some sense.
One year (when I was still performing) he gave me a box of candy. I had to keep my weight below a certain point, and could not eat that candy while simultaneously eating the diet I needed to eat to maintain stamina and muscle repair. I was going to explain it to him, but needn’t have worried, because he had opened the box and proceeded to eat most of it himself–LOL!
The best Valentines day gift I ever got from him was a gift certificate to a tire store. I needed new tires! Most women would have been upset about that. I was thrilled, though. I’m usually impressed by gestures and gifts that make my life easier, take into account my interests, and have a view towards making me feel wonderful. And by the way, he says the best valentines day gift I ever gave him was when I got him a cowboy hat (he is balding, and can’t stand cold breezes on the top of his head.)
I went back and read through some of your old posts. I gather there is a problem with a stepson on the computer, plus a ludicrously high mortgage payment, so bad that you were thinking of walking away from the house. There are at least a couple of major-league problems: finances and perhaps how stepchildren ought to be raised. It seems that big problems like that are the real issues affecting your marriage, not romantic gestures. Perhaps immaturity on her part, some control issues on either person’s part, and grave communications issues are the real problems. Resolving those things would take real commitment, maturity, and a lot of hard work in both communicating and taking action. Romance only rings hollow when fundamental problems still go unaddressed, sad to say.
Praying for God’s will be done for your family situation, whatever that turns out to be.
And jmcrea, I agree about the beer completely. And staying out of his way when he’s doing projects. I’ve even hired a couple of neighborhood kids to be “go-fers” for him when he takes it in mind to do a project around here. MUCH better to save my sanity than save a few bucks!
One year (when I was still performing) he gave me a box of candy. I had to keep my weight below a certain point, and could not eat that candy while simultaneously eating the diet I needed to eat to maintain stamina and muscle repair. I was going to explain it to him, but needn’t have worried, because he had opened the box and proceeded to eat most of it himself–LOL!
The best Valentines day gift I ever got from him was a gift certificate to a tire store. I needed new tires! Most women would have been upset about that. I was thrilled, though. I’m usually impressed by gestures and gifts that make my life easier, take into account my interests, and have a view towards making me feel wonderful. And by the way, he says the best valentines day gift I ever gave him was when I got him a cowboy hat (he is balding, and can’t stand cold breezes on the top of his head.)
I went back and read through some of your old posts. I gather there is a problem with a stepson on the computer, plus a ludicrously high mortgage payment, so bad that you were thinking of walking away from the house. There are at least a couple of major-league problems: finances and perhaps how stepchildren ought to be raised. It seems that big problems like that are the real issues affecting your marriage, not romantic gestures. Perhaps immaturity on her part, some control issues on either person’s part, and grave communications issues are the real problems. Resolving those things would take real commitment, maturity, and a lot of hard work in both communicating and taking action. Romance only rings hollow when fundamental problems still go unaddressed, sad to say.
Praying for God’s will be done for your family situation, whatever that turns out to be.
And jmcrea, I agree about the beer completely. And staying out of his way when he’s doing projects. I’ve even hired a couple of neighborhood kids to be “go-fers” for him when he takes it in mind to do a project around here. MUCH better to save my sanity than save a few bucks!
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kelvinf
Guest
Hi OP,
I subscribed to and was observing your other two threads. Are you thinking of updating any of those threads?
I subscribed to and was observing your other two threads. Are you thinking of updating any of those threads?
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TheAdvocate
Guest
I am grateful for your interest (wow, you must love to read!). Tell you what…go ahead and post something on one of the threads, such as a question or comment, and I’ll post an update.
Or, feel free to send me a private message.
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gretahope
Guest
I’ve had several birthdays, Mother’s Days where I rec’d nothing also. Been married 27 years. I’m the one who gets gifts for all the kids for every holiday, bd, Christmas, etc…
I know marriage is commitment, but I have to say that I am plain tired…and many times I feel so neglected that I wonder if this truly is the right thing to do…I am modeling for my boys that it’s OK for my H to neglect me. I have tried SO many times to make my needs known, even left a few times for extended periods, with my youngest. Anyway, I feel your pain.
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The_Bucket
Guest
I wrote something very long up for this thread but unfortunately my browser ate my lunch so I’ll have to summarize.
The top reason women leave their husbands, break up with their boyfriends, etc. is not because they aren’t sensitive enough or whatever, it’s because they’re too sensitive. Women feel emotionally fulfilled when they feel safe and secure with their men and in the knowledge that they are with the best man they could possibly get. It’s hypergamy pure and simple. It’s an instinctual feeling that is a huge part of the survival mechanism. Women only get “one chance”; that is they can only have a child by one man at a time so it better be the best man they can get out there.
Men of course are naturally polygamous but their instincts change a bit once they have children or even start thinking of offspring and how to best raise them. Nevertheless, that polygamous mechanism is always ticking in there until late middle age but can satiated by a) self-control b) sexual availability of the wife and c) maintaining physical, emotional and spiritual attractiveness on the part of the wife.
Back to the women though. Advocate, you’ve made it clear that you either enjoy getting flat out run over by your wife or you don’t know what to do. Frankly I’m bad at advice, especially in this circumstance. But the best I can give you is for you to show a steely spine. Don’t be cruel, don’t be mean and ESPECIALLY don’t be petty. But stand up for yourself and make it clear that she’s the one at fault here. Reverse the heat but do it in a way that doesn’t make you sound pathetic, instead do it in a way that demonstrates that while you’re hurt, you can find a better woman and you will. An amused chuckle, even if forced, can go a long way in this situation.
Stop with the flowers. Stop with the romantic gestures. This woman is shredding your heart and her contract with God and you’re coming to HER? No. That will only serve to cement the idea that you’re not the best man she can find and if she can bully you, she can’t be safe with you. Find a way to be dismissive of her complaints, reverse the heat and tell her that you’ll pray for her. Then calmly close the door on her. If there’s anything that can “win her back” it’s showing that you don’t need her… even if that’s something you have to fake.
The top reason women leave their husbands, break up with their boyfriends, etc. is not because they aren’t sensitive enough or whatever, it’s because they’re too sensitive. Women feel emotionally fulfilled when they feel safe and secure with their men and in the knowledge that they are with the best man they could possibly get. It’s hypergamy pure and simple. It’s an instinctual feeling that is a huge part of the survival mechanism. Women only get “one chance”; that is they can only have a child by one man at a time so it better be the best man they can get out there.
Men of course are naturally polygamous but their instincts change a bit once they have children or even start thinking of offspring and how to best raise them. Nevertheless, that polygamous mechanism is always ticking in there until late middle age but can satiated by a) self-control b) sexual availability of the wife and c) maintaining physical, emotional and spiritual attractiveness on the part of the wife.
Back to the women though. Advocate, you’ve made it clear that you either enjoy getting flat out run over by your wife or you don’t know what to do. Frankly I’m bad at advice, especially in this circumstance. But the best I can give you is for you to show a steely spine. Don’t be cruel, don’t be mean and ESPECIALLY don’t be petty. But stand up for yourself and make it clear that she’s the one at fault here. Reverse the heat but do it in a way that doesn’t make you sound pathetic, instead do it in a way that demonstrates that while you’re hurt, you can find a better woman and you will. An amused chuckle, even if forced, can go a long way in this situation.
Stop with the flowers. Stop with the romantic gestures. This woman is shredding your heart and her contract with God and you’re coming to HER? No. That will only serve to cement the idea that you’re not the best man she can find and if she can bully you, she can’t be safe with you. Find a way to be dismissive of her complaints, reverse the heat and tell her that you’ll pray for her. Then calmly close the door on her. If there’s anything that can “win her back” it’s showing that you don’t need her… even if that’s something you have to fake.
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