The Red Pill: How radical feminism is demeaning to men

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Oh jeez. It’s one of those threads.

Most of us here will say that radical feminism can be demeaning to men (and women, if we are going to be even more honest).

That doesn’t mean TRP is any better. Watching a documentary about it doesn’t show you the whole picture. Go and read about it, look at what boys who believe TRP say about it…all that good stuff.
 
Well, I remember one such type of comment right here on CAF. I’d have to go find the post.
This may have been the thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=1005935

Note the following two comments (by the same poster):
Women are more emotional by their nature, and sometimes they can not make their position heard unless by slapping a man. But a true man will never respond.
This is the case when the man actually allowed himself to be abused.
 
In defence of the use of “red pill”, I have only ever seen it used in the way the OP (and the producer of the documentary) are using it. I’ve never heard of the other definition people are using.

Anglewannabe;14677616 said:
Where exactly in his posts is this implied? I can’t see it?
]As well OP, you have stated that this group of men is a good thing because they are againts abortion. News flash: A lot of men are againts abortion but that does not make them good men. There is nothing noble about a man who could never get pregnant say abortion is wrong. The only time it is noble is when a woman has an unwanted pregnancy and has the baby.
It is always good when someone is pro-life. We are fighting a cultural war. We need everyone on our side that we have. Men are needed. Gays are needed. Unmarried women who don’t have sex are needed. And women who choose to keep the baby. Every body counts.

Some women who have abortions do so because their partners force them too. Guess what? That doesn’t happen when a man is pro-life. The more pro-life men the better. Especially if they’re able to convince others.

On topic of the documentary: I’ve seen the trailers and it is on my to-watch list. I haven’t watched it yet because I already reject the title of feminist. I’m all for equal rights but I don’t think that is what modern day feminism wants and I want nothing to do with it. So I don’t really see it as a priority for me to watch. I’m not sure I’d really learn much.
 
In defence of the use of “red pill”, I have only ever seen it used in the way the OP (and the producer of the documentary) are using it. I’ve never heard of the other definition people are using.

Where exactly in his posts is this implied? I can’t see it?

It is always good when someone is pro-life. We are fighting a cultural war. We need everyone on our side that we have. Men are needed. Gays are needed. Unmarried women who don’t have sex are needed. And women who choose to keep the baby. Every body counts.

Some women who have abortions do so because their partners force them too. Guess what? That doesn’t happen when a man is pro-life. The more pro-life men the better. Especially if they’re able to convince others.

On topic of the documentary: I’ve seen the trailers and it is on my to-watch list. I haven’t watched it yet because I already reject the title of feminist. I’m all for equal rights but I don’t think that is what modern day feminism wants and I want nothing to do with it. So I don’t really see it as a priority for me to watch. I’m not sure I’d really learn much.
Well, with all respect, just because you didn’t see it doesn’t mean it’s not true.

If you look at the websites these men frequently go to, and the things they say…you would see why a lot of people here disapprove of it.
 
Well, with all respect, just because you didn’t see it doesn’t mean it’s not true.

If you look at the websites these men frequently go to, and the things they say…you would see why a lot of people here disapprove of it.
Yes.

It would be very hard to find a large Red Pill site that isn’t toxic.

Also, they aren’t just nasty to women. One of the things I’ve discovered over the last couple years is that they are if anything worse to men who disagree–they have a huge vocabulary of insults for men who won’t fall in line–mangina, white knight, beta orbiter, cuck, etc.

Furthermore, one of the unique features of Red Pill online culture is their tendency to take online disagreements offline. So, for example, doxxing enemies or former friends is just what you do before breakfast in those parts. (I once cautioned a guy here not to post on a Red Pill Christian site because of doxxing, only to discover he’d already been doxxed within DAYS.) Those guys (and gals) doxx like nothing I’ve ever seen before or elsewhere (and I’ve been a happy online citizen for many years).

The “Christian” Red Pill is not less creepy, but a slightly different flavor of creepy. They do a lot of bad stuff, and it doesn’t even cross their minds how terrible they are being. For example, there’s a Dalrock guy who has apparently many semi-disposable CAF handles and brags about it there. He pops in and out here using his big stock of handles and also lends them out to Dalrock chums.
 
Hi Anglewannabe,

Thanks so much for your response. I’d encourage you to watch the full documentary as it addresses the things you’re talking about in detail.
Please post the link to the full documentary.
I’m extremely confused why you think that the post I gave would imply women shouldn’t have rights?
Because there is an implication that men are being abused because of the feminist movement. If it weren’t for the feminist movement, women would not be able to vote, they would not be able to have careers. Just look at the title of your post ‘How radical feminism is demeaning to me’. It implies feminism took away men’s rights. When the truth the matter is, on the link the issues men were complainig about have existed BEFORE the feminism monvement ie
  • more men die due to work related incidents
  • men are sent to war to die
  • men can’t talk about their feelings. I suspect it is because other men will mock them, and this has been going on long before the feminist movement
Now, had you posted a video saying ‘Society needs to give men their rights’, I would have been a lot more sympathetic

The point in the video that I REALLY found made men look like cry babies is as follows: A man said that if a woman hits first, he can not hit back :eek: Of course NOT. If a woman hits a man, it is much easier for him to dodge the hits and run away. It is not as easy for a woman being hit by a man to get out of there. What man would want the right to hit back ???
I stopped reading as I found that a bit over the top.
You stopped reading my post ??? You posted on several occasion that no one was looking at the video. You wanted people to watch the video to hear your point. Perhaps you could start by listening to other people’s point
Women are deserving of equal rights and given the fact that I posted videos from a feminist there’s no reason that should be called into question.
Again, just because the creator of the video is a femisint does not make her a good person. When analysing a statement to make sure it makes good sense, I look at the STATEMENT not the author of it. If every time a priest made a statement, I listened because he was a priest, I would have a lot more sins on my conscience. I always listen to the statement and make up my own mind.
Thanks and God bless!
.God bless you too 🙂
 
Who by?

In my online experience, Red Pill guys are the foremost proponents of the idea that a guy has to be an alpha gorilla/Clint Eastwood/Charles Bronson/John Wayne/Chuck Norris/Bruce Lee clone, rough and tough, 100% invulnerable, never show any weakness, never have any emotions, never need anybody 24/7.

They literally have no room for any men who are unable to fit that model, which of course is completely unrealistic as a way of life and also (needless to say) doesn’t really make sense in a husband and father.

And then they wonder about those suicide rates…
Red pill guys are misogynistic women haters who I do not support. But this documentary is not about them.

Watch the documentary! If you had even watched the sneak peek you would have seen that the issues they address are legitimate issues and not at all misogynistic or women-bashing.

Just watch it! It’s pro-life, consistent with church teaching and a really good eye opener!
 
Red pill guys are misogynistic women haters who I do not support. But this documentary is not about them.

Watch the documentary! If you had even watched the sneak peek you would have seen that the issues they address are legitimate issues and not at all misogynistic or women-bashing.

Just watch it! It’s pro-life, consistent with church teaching and a really good eye opener!
I think you’d have gotten more people to watch this if it was free. IMHO it is really presumptuous to demand people PAY to watch a documentary, and get annoyed when they refuse to do so. It makes me wonder, are you getting a cut of the proceeds? If so, I think you’re actually breaking forum rules against solicitation.
 
OP, I watched the sneak peek earlier today, but didn’t reply because I don’t really have much of value to say. I found it interesting and I wouldn’t mind seeing the whole documentary. I didn’t see anything problematic in the sneak peek from a Catholic point of view.
Thank you for your reply!! For people who haven’t watched yet, read the above! This isn’t opposed to church teaching.

To everyone saying “red pillers are misogynists” or “just google red pill and see the hate” I’m not disagreeing with you, but that’s not what the documentary is about.

It’s about legitimate issues that men face. The documentary is titled “The Red Pill” because the feminist who shot it made the same false assumption you guys are making. She assumed “well everyone involved in the manosphere MUST be misogynists”. She then decided to shoot a documentary and discovered that although there is CERTAINLY misogyny on the internet, there are legitimate issues that more moderate activists are trying to raise.

Think about it. The documentary won a woman’s award! It’s won a plethora of awards! It’s been highly reviewed! Would that happen if it was demeaning or degrading to women? Of course not!

So just watch it! Then let me know what you think. Don’t let the title throw you off.
 
I think you’d have gotten more people to watch this if it was free. IMHO it is really presumptuous to demand people PAY to watch a documentary, and get annoyed when they refuse to do so. It makes me wonder, are you getting a cut of the proceeds? If so, I think you’re actually breaking forum rules against solicitation.
Well the sneak peek is free and you get a good sense from that. You don’t have to pay for it if you don’t want to, but $10 didn’t seem like a rip-off to me.

Also, the reason it’s a paid documentary is because it’s independent. She could have enlisted special interest groups to foot the bill rather than the viewer, but she didn’t want to do that because it would unfairly bias the documentary. I think that’s fair.
 
The point in the video that I REALLY found made men look like cry babies is as follows: A man said that if a woman hits first, he can not hit back :eek: Of course NOT. If a woman hits a man, it is much easier for him to dodge the hits and run away. It is not as easy for a woman being hit by a man to get out of there. What man would want the right to hit back ???
Apparently equal rights and equal treatment apply only when convenient. If you want to be treated equally to men, then why should you not be treated like a man when you decide to hit someone?

youtube.com/watch?v=H53NdJIux2s
 
Because there is an implication that men are being abused because of the feminist movement. If it weren’t for the feminist movement, women would not be able to vote, they would not be able to have careers. Just look at the title of your post ‘How radical feminism is demeaning to me’. It implies feminism took away men’s rights. When the truth the matter is, on the link the issues men were complainig about have existed BEFORE the feminism monvement ie
  • more men die due to work related incidents
  • men are sent to war to die
  • men can’t talk about their feelings. I suspect it is because other men will mock them, and this has been going on long before the feminist movement
Now, had you posted a video saying ‘Society needs to give men their rights’, I would have been a lot more sympathetic

[snip]

Again, just because the creator of the video is a femisint does not make her a good person. When analysing a statement to make sure it makes good sense, I look at the STATEMENT not the author of it. If every time a priest made a statement, I listened because he was a priest, I would have a lot more sins on my conscience. I always listen to the statement and make up my own mind.
Very interesting points.

Going through them,

–If you do a google search for “workplace deaths chart” you’ll get a number of different charts showing an enormous decrease in workplace deaths since at least the early 1930s. I’m not saying that feminism is responsible for the decrease, but it takes quite the nerve to argue that feminism is responsible for men dying at work when the rise of feminism in the US has coincided with a huge decline in workplace fatalities. A couple hundred workers died during the construction of the Hoover Dam in the 1930s–we would never accept that level of fatalities in a construction project today.
–For an example of the scope of old-time mining disasters, see this list of worst coal mining disasters in which the fatalities range from several hundred to over 1,500 people:

mining-technology.com/features/feature-world-worst-coal-mining-disasters-china/

You’ll notice that the more recent ones are predominantly in less “feminist” parts of the world, while the really big mining disasters in the US, the UK and France all happened no later than the early 20th century while major disasters have continued much later in poorer, less “feminist” parts of the world.
–Likewise, if we were to graph US wartime casualties, isn’t it the case that there have been fewer US casualties as we get closer to the present?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war

The Civil War and WWII were the high water mark for US combat deaths (with deaths in the 200,000s for both). However, once we get past Vietnam (47,000 combat deaths over 20 years ending in 1975), the numbers are much lower. The big ones after that are Iraq (under 4,000) and Afghanistan (under 2,000).
–So, I don’t think we can make the case that increased US feminism has led to indifference to US military casualties. Au contraire, in fact.
–I don’t know how reputable this is, but there’s a chart here showing global deaths in conflicts since 1400:

io9.gizmodo.com/this-chart-shows-how-many-people-have-died-from-conflic-1713625114

There’s a high baseline of death throughout nearly all of that period, but as the writer points out, there’s a dramatic drop starting in 1946. Again, this is hard to square with the idea that feminism leads to indifference to male suffering.
–Anglewannabe said, “men can’t talk about their feelings. I suspect it is because other men will mock them, and this has been going on long before the feminist movement.” Right. If anything, men have gotten more emotionally expressive during my lifetime.
 
Please post the link to the full documentary.
It depends on how you want to purchase it. It’s a paid documentary available on amazon, youtube, google play, etc.

Here’s a link to the sneak peek. In the description you will see links to the full version depending on which platform you’d like.

Here’s a link to the full version on youtube, if that’s your platform of choice.
Because there is an implication that men are being abused because of the feminist movement. If it weren’t for the feminist movement, women would not be able to vote, they would not be able to have careers. Just look at the title of your post ‘How radical feminism is demeaning to me’. It implies feminism took away men’s rights. When the truth the matter is, on the link the issues men were complainig about have existed BEFORE the feminism monvement ie
  • more men die due to work related incidents
  • men are sent to war to die
  • men can’t talk about their feelings. I suspect it is because other men will mock them, and this has been going on long before the feminist movement
I agree with everything you just said and nothing in the video disagrees with that. It specifically targets RADICAL feminism. Not feminism in general. There are many feminists interviewed in the documentary. If you watch the sneak peek, it’ll give you a rough idea.
Now, had you posted a video saying ‘Society needs to give men their rights’, I would have been a lot more sympathetic
This is exactly the video I have posted. This is also why I stopped reading your posts. Just watch the sneak peek and then report back. It’s won all kinds of women’s awards! It’s clearly not misogynistic in any way. You’re making a bunch of false assumptions that one watch of the sneak peek will quickly clear up.

Peace and God bless!
 
Well the sneak peek is free and you get a good sense from that. You don’t have to pay for it if you don’t want to, but $10 didn’t seem like a rip-off to me.

Also, the reason it’s a paid documentary is because it’s independent. She could have enlisted special interest groups to foot the bill rather than the viewer, but she didn’t want to do that because it would unfairly bias the documentary. I think that’s fair.
I’ve seen enough movies that had nothing to do with the content of their trailers, to not see any point in watching this “sneak peek”.

And since you didn’t answer my question about whether you’re being paid yourself to promote this documentary, I don’t see much point in discussing this further.
 
I imagine “radical feminism” has has a negative effect on men just like “radical machismo” or masculinity has a negative effect on women.

If they are portraying feminists as women who hate men–as I’ve seen many write here-- then of course that would have a negative effect. Any group of people who hate another group is not a positive.

That is why, at the other end of the spectrum, all this talk about “locker room talk” and the current president of the USA talking about grabbing women’s sex parts when you want to is so, so, SO, negative and soul-killing and sickening and harmful to women–and all of us.

.
Agreed, but I think the documentary is quick to point out that we are much more tolerant of radical feminism than we are of radical, uh… meninism? I’m not even sure what to call it, but you get the idea.

Here’s a few points that it makes:

1 in 3 women are abused by domestic violence, but 1 in 4 men are as well. Yet we have thousands of women’s shelters and only 1 for men. Not only that, but radical feminists actively protest men’s shelters which is complete hypocrisy!

The woman who founded the first women’s shelter is a men’s rights activist. Here’s a quote from wikipedia on her:
Pizzey said that militant feminists – with the collusion of Labour’s leading women – hijacked her cause and used it to try to demonise all men, not only in Britain, but internationally.Pizzey said of the newly emerging establishment “I never saw Women’s Aid as a movement that was hostile to men, but The National Federation, which quickly formed, made it quite clear that men were the enemy.” After the alleged hijacking, the demand for a service for women survivors of domestic violence grew and soon public funding became available. Pizzey has lamented that the movement she started had moved from the “personal to the political”.
Source

She’s also in the documentary and makes excellent points. Give it a watch if you haven’t already!
 
I’ve seen enough movies that had nothing to do with the content of their trailers, to not see any point in watching this “sneak peek”.

And since you didn’t answer my question about whether you’re being paid yourself to promote this documentary, I don’t see much point in discussing this further.
I am not being paid to promote this documentary in any way shape or form. I also have not coordinated with the makers of this documentary.

But I don’t understand why it’s such a burden to watch a free 10 minute video on youtube and let me know what you think.
 
Oh jeez. It’s one of those threads.

Most of us here will say that radical feminism can be demeaning to men (and women, if we are going to be even more honest).

That doesn’t mean TRP is any better. Watching a documentary about it doesn’t show you the whole picture. Go and read about it, look at what boys who believe TRP say about it…all that good stuff.
Again, the documentary is careful to distinguish this. There’s definitely a vitriolic women-bashing internet community that labels themselves the red pill, and I certainly don’t support that.

But the documentary points out there are also legitimate activists involved in men’s rights who are raising good points that aren’t getting talked about.

Prior to this documentary, I thought the whole TRP community were all misogynists. The documentary exposes this as false.
 
Agreed, but I think the documentary is quick to point out that we are much more tolerant of radical feminism than we are of radical, uh… meninism? I’m not even sure what to call it, but you get the idea.

Here’s a few points that it makes:

1 in 3 women are abused by domestic violence, but 1 in 4 men are as well. Yet we have thousands of women’s shelters and nothing for men.

The woman who founded the first women’s shelter is a men’s rights activist. Here’s a quote from wikipedia on her:

Source

She’s also in the documentary and makes excellent points. Give it a watch if you haven’t already!
So, have men’s rights advocates opened any men’s shelters?

Or, are they just sitting around waiting for other people to open one for them?
 
So, have men’s rights advocates opened any men’s shelters?

Or, are they just sitting around waiting for other people to open one for them?
Yes, they have 1 open in America, currently. I think it’s in Arkansas.

The problem is they’re trying to open more but radical feminists keep actively fighting them. And even protesting the one they have opened!

They’re also trying to change sole-custody legislation to shared / join custody and radical feminists are fighting them on that too.

There’s other issues that are raised as well like male expendability, etc.

The sneak peek is a good summary.
 
Yes, they have 1 open in America, currently. I think it’s in Arkansas.

The problem is they’re trying to open more but radical feminists keep actively fighting them. And even protesting the one they have opened!

They’re also trying to change sole-custody legislation to shared / join custody and radical feminists are fighting them on that too.

There’s other issues that are raised as well like male expendability, etc.

The sneak peek is a good summary.
The stuff about “sole-custody legislation” is very dubious, as shared custody tends to be the default.

Bear in mind that feminists are (surprise!) not actually that eager for women to shoulder all of the child-rearing, so the rise of feminism has in fact coincided with more shared custody.

I read a lot at Chump Lady (it’s a co-ed cheated-on spouses support group–WARNING bad language) and one of the things that is very clear there is how much joint custody there is in the US, even when it isn’t actually desirable for the children.

In much of the US, it requires pretty over-the-top behavior to lose child custody.

Furthermore, fathers who fight for custody usually get some, and custody is usually settled amicably, without a court fight. If fathers don’t custody or not much, it’s generally because they haven’t asked for it:

villainouscompany.com/vcblog/archives/2012/04/child_supportcu.html

An added wrinkle is that there is a lot of out-of-wedlock childbearing in the current US, so of course never-married fathers are going to be at a disadvantage with regard to child custody, especially if they’ve never lived with their child.
 
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