The Right to Bear Arms

[triumphguy]

Bingo. And now for part two, what was happening in those places which led to the altercation?

Is the British trying to destroy (in their eyes) a potentially terrorist cache of military supplies the same as the Government proposing a ban on magazines holding 30 rounds?

 

[AspiringServant]

In light of the recent violent attacks on children (by children?)

There has been much in the media about Gun Control post Sandy Hook CT tragedy.
However, do you find it odd or strange that nothing has been said about drugs and their impact on the “deranged” or perhaps “drug induced and mentally re-arranged” shooters?

There are 1000s cases of violence related to prescription meds yet NOTHING in the press!!! Please spread the word about these dangerous drugs.

LOOK AT THIS SHORT LIST EXCERPT OF PRESCRIPTION DRUG RELATED VIOLENCE (source: ssristories.com/index.php

Murder Prozac 2011-09-16 Canada16 Year Old Stabs 15 Year Old: Will Be Tried in Youth Court Because of Bad Reaction to Prozac
Murder Attempt Wellbutrin2006-02-12Washington82 Year Old Man Found Not Guilty: Med Defense
Murder AttemptCelexa Antidepressants2011-02-08MassachusettsCoed at Wellesley Found Not Guilty Due to Celexa Antidepressant Use: Stabbed Boyfriend 8 times
Murder Zoloft1994-03-14AlabamaMan Found Not Guilty Due to Psychosis Caused by Zoloft
Murder Med For Depression2009-11-19EnglandMan Found Not Guilty of Killing Wife While Sleepwalking
Murder Zoloft2001-05-24AustraliaMan Found Not Guilty Using Zoloft Defense
Murder AttemptZoloft2004-04-24CaliforniaMan Found Not Guilty: Used Zoloft Defense
Murder Med For Depression2011-08-23EnglandMan Released From Prison Hospital Because his Murders Were Caused by Psychosis From Depression Med
Murder AttemptZoloft2002-11-04ArizonaMother Acquitted of Attempted Child MurderMurderPaxil & ADHD Drug2000-05-18WashingtonMother Stabs Daughter: Not Guilty by Reason of Drug Induced Insanity
Murder AttemptProzac2008-05-20ConnecticutNot Guilty Because of Psychosis Brought On by Prozac & Adderall
Murder Cymbalta Antidepressant2007-05-15TexasNot Guilty by Reason of Cymbalta Induced Insanity: Man Kills Wife
Murder Prozac2003-07-11LouisianaNot Guilty by Reason of Prozac Induced Insanity: Mother Kills Daughter
Murder Paxil2011-05-20CaliforniaWife Given Probation After Stabbing Husband Over 200 Times: Rage Caused by Meds
Murder Prozac1991-10-16CaliforniaWoman Kills Her Mother: Given Only 3 Years in Prison Because of Testimony Using Prozac Defense
Murder Attempt Prozac1998-10-13ScotlandWoman Stabs Boyfriend: Used Prozac Defense: Placed on Probation
Murder Cymbalta & Seroquel2011-08-09New York+.8 Year Old Boy Kidnapped & Killed as He Walked Home From School: Every Parents’ Nightmare
Murder Prozac2004-08-31Texas+10 Year Old Kills his Father, Who Is a Physician
Murder Zoloft2001-11-28South Carolina+12 Year Old Kills His Grandparents
Murder Prozac1994-10-23Iowa+14 Year Old Girl Stabs Great Aunt: Given Life in Prison
Murder Zoloft2004-05-03Montana+14 Year Old Murders his Mother & 10 Year Old Brother
Murder Paxil WITHDRAWAL2002-11-14Texas+15 Year Old Girl Kills 6 Year Old BrotherMurderProzac2009-11-19Missouri+15 Year Old Girl Kills 9 Year Old Neighbor to See What It Feels
School Shooting Prozac WITHDRAWAL 2008-02-15 Illinois ** 6 Dead: 15 Wounded: Perpetrator Was in Withdrawal from Med & Acting Erratically
School Shooting Prozac Antidepressant 2005-03-24 Minnesota **10 Dead: 7 Wounded: Dosage Increased One Week before Rampage
School Shooting Paxil [Seroxat] Antidepressant 2001-03-10 Pennsylvania **14 Year Old GIRL Shoots & Wounds Classmate at Catholic School
School Shooting Zoloft Antidepressant & ADHD Med 2011-07-11 Alabama **14 Year Old Kills Fellow Middle School Student
School Shooting Zoloft Antidepressant 1995-10-12 South Carolina **15 Year Old Shoots Two Teachers, Killing One: Then Kills Himself
School Shooting Med For Depression 2009-03-13 Germany **16 Dead Including Shooter: Antidepressant Use: Shooter in Treatment For Depression
School Hostage Situation Med For Depression 2010-12-15 France **17 Year Old with Sword Holds 20 Children & Teacher Hostage
School Shooting Plot Med For Depression WITHDRAWAL 2008-08-28 Texas **18 Year Old Plots a Columbine School Attack
School Shooting Anafranil Antidepressant 1988-05-20 Illinois **29 Year Old WOMAN Kills One Child: Wounds Five: Kills Self
School Shooting Luvox/Zoloft Antidepressants 1999-04-20 Colorado **COLUMBINE: 15 Dead: 24 Wounded
School Stabbings Antidepressants 2001-06-09 Japan **Eight Dead: 15 Wounded: Assailant Had Taken 10 Times his Normal Dose of Depression Med
School Shooting Prozac Antidepressant WITHDRAWAL 1998-05-21 Oregon **Four Dead: Twenty Injured
School Stabbing Med For Depression 2011-10-25 Washington **Girl, 15, Stabs Two Girls in School Restroom: 1 Is In Critical Condition
School Shooting Antidepressant 2006-09-30 Colorado **Man Assaults Girls: Kills One & Self
School Machete Attack Med for Depression 2001-09-26 Pennsylvania **Man Attacks 11 Children & 3 Teachers at Elementary School
School Shooting Related Luvox 1993-07-23 Florida **Man Commits Murder During Clinical Trial for Luvox: Same Drug as in COLUMBINE: Never Reported
School Hostage Situation Cymbalta Antidepressant WITHDRAWAL 2009-11-09 New York **Man With Gun Inside School Holds Principal Hostage
School Shooting Antidepressants 1992-09-20 Texas **Man, Angry Over Daughter’s Report Card, Shoots 14 Rounds inside Elementary School
School Shooting SSRI 2010-02-19 Finland *On Sept. 23, 2008 a Finnish Student Shot & Killed 9 Students Before Killing Himself
School Shooting Threat Med for Depression 2004-10-19 New Jersey *Over-Medicated Teen Brings Loaded Handguns to School
)

 

[AspiringServant]

There is another fact going unreported in the context of the discussion. Most homicides are committed in large cities (Which generally have strict gun-control laws) by people involved with gangs and drugs. Government statistics indicate that the victims are six times and the perpetrators seven times more likely of a racial minority. I say this, as a person without a racist bone in my body and to point out that our crime problem has nothing to do with guns but everything to do with the breakdown in family life. Progressive policies are strongly associated with this dilemma. Yet the same people want to disarm us and maintain a disingenuous silence about the true cause of most of the violence in this country. The agenda trumps all else.

Lets not leave out the money thirsty Big Pharma Gang

SEE:
LOOK AT THIS SHORT LIST EXCERPT OF PRESCRIPTION DRUG RELATED VIOLENCE (source: ssristories.com/index.php

Murder Prozac 2011-09-16 Canada16 Year Old Stabs 15 Year Old: Will Be Tried in Youth Court Because of Bad Reaction to Prozac
Murder Attempt Wellbutrin2006-02-12Washington82 Year Old Man Found Not Guilty: Med Defense
Murder AttemptCelexa Antidepressants2011-02-08MassachusettsCoed at Wellesley Found Not Guilty Due to Celexa Antidepressant Use: Stabbed Boyfriend 8 times
Murder Zoloft1994-03-14AlabamaMan Found Not Guilty Due to Psychosis Caused by Zoloft
Murder Med For Depression2009-11-19EnglandMan Found Not Guilty of Killing Wife While Sleepwalking
Murder Zoloft2001-05-24AustraliaMan Found Not Guilty Using Zoloft Defense
Murder AttemptZoloft2004-04-24CaliforniaMan Found Not Guilty: Used Zoloft Defense
Murder Med For Depression2011-08-23EnglandMan Released From Prison Hospital Because his Murders Were Caused by Psychosis From Depression Med
Murder AttemptZoloft2002-11-04ArizonaMother Acquitted of Attempted Child MurderMurderPaxil & ADHD Drug2000-05-18WashingtonMother Stabs Daughter: Not Guilty by Reason of Drug Induced Insanity
Murder AttemptProzac2008-05-20ConnecticutNot Guilty Because of Psychosis Brought On by Prozac & Adderall
Murder Cymbalta Antidepressant2007-05-15TexasNot Guilty by Reason of Cymbalta Induced Insanity: Man Kills Wife
Murder Prozac2003-07-11LouisianaNot Guilty by Reason of Prozac Induced Insanity: Mother Kills Daughter
Murder Paxil2011-05-20CaliforniaWife Given Probation After Stabbing Husband Over 200 Times: Rage Caused by Meds
Murder Prozac1991-10-16CaliforniaWoman Kills Her Mother: Given Only 3 Years in Prison Because of Testimony Using Prozac Defense
Murder Attempt Prozac1998-10-13ScotlandWoman Stabs Boyfriend: Used Prozac Defense: Placed on Probation
Murder Cymbalta & Seroquel2011-08-09New York+.8 Year Old Boy Kidnapped & Killed as He Walked Home From School: Every Parents’ Nightmare
Murder Prozac2004-08-31Texas+10 Year Old Kills his Father, Who Is a Physician
Murder Zoloft2001-11-28South Carolina+12 Year Old Kills His Grandparents
Murder Prozac1994-10-23Iowa+14 Year Old Girl Stabs Great Aunt: Given Life in Prison
Murder Zoloft2004-05-03Montana+14 Year Old Murders his Mother & 10 Year Old Brother

 

[Lost_Sheep]

Aby, when was the last time you saw or heard the U.S. government using tyranny only your gun could stop? It is now 2013, mind you, not 1776.

Uh, the reason the U.S. government is not using tyranny is because the populace is armed. Ever think of it that way?

 

[jwinch2]

Is the British trying to destroy (in their eyes) a potentially terrorist cache of military supplies the same as the Government proposing a ban on magazines holding 30 rounds?

Yes. Both are about control of a population in which they see subjects rather than the citizens by whose consent they govern.

 

[jwinch2]

“The door opened up quick and three guys came in,” recalled Michaud. “That’s when the guys said, ‘You go back there, I’ll take care of him.’” Michaud told KRDO Newschannel 13 that he keeps a .357 pistol close to him because of crime around his apartment complex on East St. Vrain Street near Prairie Avenue.

krdo.com/news/Colorado-Springs-man-invokes-Make-My-Day-Law-after-break-in/-/417220/18060326/-/wlvvqp/-/index.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

[jwinch2]

Attorney Alan Gura Comments on Second Amendment Rights

youtube.com/watch?v=P9rsVL-M5Jw

Mr. Gura is the attorney who successfully litigated the Heller and McDonald cases.

 

[triumphguy]

Yes. Both are about control of a population in which they see subjects rather than the citizens by whose consent they govern.

I always feel like I’m from another planet when I come into contact with the American view of their own government.

The government is you is it not?

Maybe your political system is too big? Maybe it needs to be dismantled and the principles of subsidiarity applied?

Serious question: do Americans not feel that the state is THEM?

As a Canadian I feel I could take on the state, but I would never be at war with the state, or could ever be the enemy of the state. That when the nation is more secular, or “pro-choice” it’s not because of the “government,” but because of the will of the people - flawed though it may be. Do Americans feel different?

 

[jwinch2]

I always feel like I’m from another planet when I come into contact with the American view of their own government.

The government is you is it not?

Maybe your political system is too big? Maybe it needs to be dismantled and the principles of subsidiarity applied?

Serious question: do Americans not feel that the state is THEM?

As a Canadian I feel I could take on the state, but I would never be at war with the state, or could ever be the enemy of the state. That when the nation is more secular, or “pro-choice” it’s not because of the “government,” but because of the will of the people - flawed though it may be. Do Americans feel different?

Yes, most Americans do feel different. Poll after poll shows that the overwhelming majority of Americans feel the government is too large, too bloated, too intrusive, and too unresponsive to what we really want, on both sides of the political aisle. The government ceased being us, quite some time ago. Now you have people, quite against the intent of the framers of the constitution, who grow up in political families, study law, not so they can practice law, but so they can get into “public service”. They seem themselves are better then everyone else, and do not believe that they have to play by the same rules.

When you take an oath of office in America or to serve in the military, you swear to uphold, protect, and defend the Constitution, not the country or the people, etc. Government does have a legitimate role to play, I would never deny that. However, it oversteps is constitutional mandate far too often.

“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people; it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government, lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.” Patrick Henry

“Democracy: is two Wolves and a Lamb discussing Whats for Dinner. Liberty: is a well Armed Lamb willing to Contest The Majority Decision.” Benjamin Franklin 1755

“To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them…” George Mason

 

[Lost_Sheep]

I always feel like I’m from another planet when I come into contact with the American view of their own government.

The government is you is it not?

That’s the idea, anyhow.

Maybe your political system is too big? Maybe it needs to be dismantled and the principles of subsidiarity applied?

Our government is too big; that’s for sure. For example, there are more people who work for the Department of Agriculture than there are farmers in the U.S.

Serious question: do Americans not feel that the state is THEM?

For the most part, no. The same professional politicians keep getting elected and they create their own little dynasties. Elected officials seem more concerned about keeping their jobs than serving those who elected them.

As a Canadian I feel I could take on the state, but I would never be at war with the state, or could ever be the enemy of the state. That when the nation is more secular, or “pro-choice” it’s not because of the “government,” but because of the will of the people - flawed though it may be. Do Americans feel different?

In 1862, the southern half of the country “took on” the northern half and was at war with them for four years. Ultimately they lost, but it shows what can happen if enough people rise up against [what they felt] was a tyrannical government.

Personally, I think America is headed towards another civil war; maybe not in the immediate future, but it is going to happen sooner or later.

 

[CopticChristian]

I’m going to guess this is a very touchy subject on here, but try to open a reasoned debate in any case. I have read quite a bit here and elsewhere, in defence of gun ownership. It could be because I come from a different culture (England/ Ireland), but I find it difficult to reconcile gun ownership with a moral Catholic position. I completely understand that the basic argument is that guns equate to defence. If you are armed, you are able to defend yourself. I also do not think you could disarm, certainly not quickly. That would mean that the only people left with guns would be those who do not accept the rule of law, and law abiding citizens would then have little or no defence against them.

However, I would like to suggest that the Catholic Church is very solidly, very calmly against gun ownership and that this is very clear and consistent in Catholic teaching. I have written something about it here outlining my argument and providing references and I would invite you to review and please, comment and help me to understand where and if I’ve got this wrong.

Fight,

This question will yield no consensus of opinion.

I ask several questions.

What is the purpose of explosives and the subsequent use in guns?

Are guns necessary absent the ability to agree and disagree?

Compare and contrast the notion of possession of guns as a right and the laws for two pieces of wood and a chain…Nunchaku seen below.

totalnunchaku.com/nunlaws.html

I am positive that this will all make total sense.

 

[jwinch2]

m.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/10/the-right-to-shoot-tyrants-not-deer/

The right of the people to keep and bear arms is an extension of the natural right to self-defense and a hallmark of personal sovereignty. It is specifically insulated from governmental interference by the Constitution and has historically been the linchpin of resistance to tyranny. Yet the progressives in both political parties stand ready to use the coercive power of the government to interfere with the exercise of that right by law-abiding persons because of the gross abuse of that right by some crazies in our midst.

When Thomas Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence that we are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights, he was marrying the nation at its birth to the ancient principles of the natural law that have animated the Judeo-Christian tradition in the West. Those principles have operated as a brake on all governments that recognize them by enunciating the concept of natural rights.

As we have been created in the image and likeness of God the Father, we are perfectly free just as He is. Thus, the natural law teaches that our freedoms are pre-political and come from our humanity and not from the government. As our humanity is ultimately divine in origin, the government, even by majority vote, cannot morally take natural rights away from us. A natural right is an area of individual human behavior — like thought, speech, worship, travel, self-defense, privacy, ownership and use of property, consensual personal intimacy — immune from government interference and for the exercise of which we don’t need the government’s permission.

The essence of humanity is freedom. Government — whether voted in peacefully or thrust upon us by force — is essentially the negation of freedom. Throughout the history of the world, people have achieved freedom when those in power have begrudgingly given it up. From the assassination of Julius Caesar to King John’s forced signing of the Magna Carta, from the English Civil War to the triumph of the allies at the end of World War II, from the fall of communism to the Arab Spring, governments have permitted so-called nobles and everyday folk to exercise more personal freedom as a result of their demands for it and their fighting for it. This constitutes power permitting liberty.

The American experience was the opposite. Here, each human being is sovereign, as the colonists were after the Revolution. Here, the delegation to the government of some sovereignty — the personal dominion over self — by each American permitted the government to have limited power in order to safeguard the liberties we retained. Stated differently, Americans gave up some limited personal freedom to the new government so it could have the authority and resources to protect the freedoms we retained. Individuals are sovereign in America, not the government. This constitutes liberty permitting power.

 

[duneman]

why did cavemen keep their clubs and spears by their side???

 

[CopticChristian]

why did cavemen keep their clubs and spears by their side???

Duneman,

Because Home Depot and Lowes did not exist and they could not get anyone to build them a spear and club closet.

 

[ProVobis]

Uh, the reason the U.S. government is not using tyranny is because the populace is armed. Ever think of it that way?

Right. Like they’re no better ways of using tyranny other than with guns. You admitted yourself the government is too big. I can only assume too big for personal comfort.

 

[CopticChristian]

Uh, the reason the U.S. government is not using tyranny is because the populace is armed. Ever think of it that way?

Lost,

We would be lost without the will to fight…absent the will to fight with or without weapons we would be lost…the will to fight without weapons gave birth to Kung Fu and the martial arts in general.

 

[triumphguy]

OK (forgetting the nanchuks)

So, the government in restricting the ownership of personal firearms is tantamount to a declaration of war on the sovereignty of individual Americans, in whom resides the sovereignty of the country itself.

Is this the nub of the argument?

 

[LINVS]

If the Church is against gun ownership, how come I’ve never come across anything in the Catechism? Why hasn’t my priest said in a homily that there should be no guns in our homes?

Jesus instructed his apostles to buy swords; he didn’t tell them to get rid of their swords, if they owned any. I suspect if Jesus came down to Earth in the 21st century instead of the 1st century, he might have said sell your coat and buy an AK 47.

As you have mentioned, you come from a different culture. In America, we see ourselves as the government; not Subjects to a government. As such our defense is our own responsibility, not a governmet militia.

 

[CopticChristian]

If the Church is against gun ownership, how come I’ve never come across anything in the Catechism? Why hasn’t my priest said in a homily that there should be no guns in our homes?

Jesus instructed his apostles to buy swords; he didn’t tell them to get rid of their swords, if they owned any. I suspect if Jesus came down to Earth in the 21st century instead of the 1st century, he might have said sell your coat and buy an AK 47.

As you have mentioned, you come from a different culture. In America, we see ourselves as the government; not Subjects to a government. As such our defense is our own responsibility, not a governmet militia.

Linvs,

I am an old man, a cradle Catholic, somehow I believe I have missed something in my journey and most recently with the Audio Catechism of the USA. Would you kindly point out to me where Jesus instructed his apostles to buy swords. Thank you.

 

[LINVS]

Linvs,

I am an old man, a cradle Catholic, somehow I believe I have missed something in my journey and most recently with the Audio Catechism of the USA. Would you kindly point out to me where Jesus instructed his apostles to buy swords. Thank you.

He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”

—Luke 22:36