The Right to Choose

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SteveGC said:
I’m jumping into this…forgive me…

I don’t think anyone dropped the ball, per se. ABC represents the core morality of secular society. It is the champion of the one-night stand. NFP, and it’s counterparts, i.e. rhythm method, predominantly presume marriages (or atleast a committed relationship) as opposed to “hook ups”. So it really wouldn’t matter how much money you poured into the promotion of NFP…society demands an “easy out” to their pregnancy prevention, and won’t bother with a method demanding a committed relationship over time with a partner (spouse). It needs to be quick and easy, and allow for multiple partners.

Of course, ABC pharmaceuticals have the capital to make large promotions work…the Church does not, and so She really can only promulgate it within the Body of the Church, and relies on the faithful to take it into all corners of society. I think that’s why, even for validly married couples, NFP is not marketed like ABC is able to be marketed. I do think, however, that some arm of the Church should make a more vocal and noticeable effort to promote NFP and compete with the predominant ABC culture.
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Exactly, SteveGC. Follow the money trail, baby. NFP is not marketed by society at large not only because of the morality involved,** but also because there’s no money to be made** - by pharmaceutical companies, doctors, and abortion/contraception providers. Why do you think PP is so into “educating” our youth in schools on birth control? Because they know that, for the most part, kids will not use it (or only partially), and will have sex anyway if they think no-one cares if they indulge their carnal desires.
So, oops, Jenny gets pregnant, and she can just head on down to the local PP for an abortion that costs a few hundred dollars. It’s a combination of lack of morality and a greed for money; plain and simple.
 
I’d suggest NFP is not marketed for the same reaosn any other product is not marketed. Few people are interested in the product when it is described to focus groups. It doesn’t really fit an unmet demand.

How is it doing with Catholics? Popular? What percentage of Catholic women of reproductive age use it? What percentage use ABC? What percentage use nothing?

And money? Money can be made off anything. For example, Linux is an open source, free computer operating system. People are making a fortune packaging it and selling it in installation kits.
 
WillieWonka said:
I’d suggest NFP is not marketed for the same reaosn any other product is not marketed. Few people are interested in the product when it is described to focus groups. It doesn’t really fit an unmet demand.

How is it doing with Catholics? Popular? What percentage of Catholic women of reproductive age use it? What percentage use ABC? What percentage use nothing?

And money? Money can be made off anything. For example, Linux is an open source, free computer operating system. People are making a fortune packaging it and selling it in installation kits.
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Unfortunately, I neither have the statistics for your questions, or know if they even exist. Do you know of a survey done where ‘few people were interested in the product when it is described to focus groups’? If so, please cite the source; I would be interested in reading it. I have no idea how it is doing with Catholics, but I am willing to bet that many Catholics are unaware of the efficacy of NFP, or have fallen prey to the misinformation promulgated by secular society. It is also an unfortunate but common occurrence that clergy/social justice/laity leaders within the Catholic community spread the same misinformation based upon an archaic understanding of the old “rhythm method”, rather than the accuracy of NFP. Or, I daresay, some leaders actually don’t believe in the teachings of the Church on openness to life and so recommend ABC.
 
Sugabee43 said:
Unfortunately, I neither have the statistics for your questions, or know if they even exist. Do you know of a survey done where ‘few people were interested in the product when it is described to focus groups’? If so, please cite the source; I would be interested in reading it. I have no idea how it is doing with Catholics, but I am willing to bet that many Catholics are unaware of the efficacy of NFP, or have fallen prey to the misinformation promulgated by secular society. It is also an unfortunate but common occurrence that clergy/social justice/laity leaders within the Catholic community spread the same misinformation based upon an archaic understanding of the old “rhythm method”, rather than the accuracy of NFP. Or, I daresay, some leaders actually don’t believe in the teachings of the Church on openness to life and so recommend ABC.
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I don’t have the marketing survey data for NFP, and am suggesting its fate based on many similar products’ fates.

But, for any product, one must answer the same questions. Who is the market? What is the need that has not been met? Where is the demand for a product like this? What makes this product better than the competition? What makes the competition better than this product? How will the competition respond? What independent data supports it? What is the price point?

Remember, a guy once made a fortune selling pet rocks.
 
WillieWonka said:
I don’t have the marketing survey data for NFP, and am suggesting its fate based on many similar products’ fates.

But, for any product, one must answer the same questions. Who is the market? What is the need that has not been met? Where is the demand for a product like this? What makes this product better than the competition? What makes the competition better than this product? How will the competition respond? What independent data supports it? What is the price point?

Remember, a guy once made a fortune selling pet rocks.
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Wow, are you a marketing person? If not, you should be - you sound like you are really on the ball about it (I’m not being sarcastic, either. I’m impressed!). 👍

I believe if people, especially Catholics (and there are millions of us out there) and the “earth mothers” out there, knew the benefits of NFP (the accuracy, ease of use, and the fact that it’s chemical free), it could find quite a large corner in the BC market. All you need is an accurate basal thermometer and a charting method. You could even have an application developed for your iPhone! 😃
 
SteveGC said:
I’m jumping into this…forgive me…

I don’t think anyone dropped the ball, per se. ABC represents the core morality of secular society. It is the champion of the one-night stand. NFP, and it’s counterparts, i.e. rhythm method, predominantly presume marriages (or atleast a committed relationship) as opposed to “hook ups”. So it really wouldn’t matter how much money you poured into the promotion of NFP…society demands an “easy out” to their pregnancy prevention, and won’t bother with a method demanding a committed relationship over time with a partner (spouse). It needs to be quick and easy, and allow for multiple partners.

Of course, ABC pharmaceuticals have the capital to make large promotions work…the Church does not, and so She really can only promulgate it within the Body of the Church, and relies on the faithful to take it into all corners of society. I think that’s why, even for validly married couples, NFP is not marketed like ABC is able to be marketed. I do think, however, that some arm of the Church should make a more vocal and noticeable effort to promote NFP and compete with the predominant ABC culture.
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**If the Catholic Church does not have the capital to “make large promotions work” with regard to Natural Family Planning, could that have something to do with the millions of dollars they have had to shell out to the corrupted dioceses and to the victims of their pedophile priests? Let’s put that culpability where it really rests.

And you are blaming casual sex and promiscuity on a chemical? Can this be interpreted as a pass for the actual human participants - The Pill made me do it??

Sheesh.

Limerick**
 
limerick said:
**If the Catholic Church does not have the capital to “make large promotions work” with regard to Natural Family Planning, could that have something to do with the millions of dollars they have had to shell out to the corrupted dioceses and to the victims of their pedophile priests? Let’s put that culpability where it really rests.

And you are blaming casual sex and promiscuity on a chemical? Can this be interpreted as a pass for the actual human participants - The Pill made me do it??

Sheesh.

Limerick**
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I think the Church could possibly have the captial, if it didn’t spend it on other ministries, but of course everyone has their ‘favorites’. Yes, the Church has had to settle lawsuits against priests who have sinned. But the Church also could have used that money in other ways besides NFP advertising, so why are you bringing that up?
Not every priest accused is actually guilty, and it only serves to inflame those who are anti-Catholic. Other denominations have had clergy accused and convicted also. So let’s leave that for another thread.

I don’t think the poster is blaming promiscuity on the Pill, but let’s agree that if it hadn’t been introduced in the '60’s as the perfect solution to the “problems” of pregnancy and sleeping around, it wouldn’t nearly be as popular as it is now. Heck, they’re advertising it as an acne cure these days!
 
Sugabee43 said:
I think the Church could possibly have the captial, if it didn’t spend it on other ministries, but of course everyone has their ‘favorites’. Yes, the Church has had to settle lawsuits against priests who have sinned. But the Church also could have used that money in other ways besides NFP advertising, so why are you bringing that up?
Not every priest accused is actually guilty, and it only serves to inflame those who are anti-Catholic. Other denominations have had clergy accused and convicted also. So let’s leave that for another thread.

I don’t think the poster is blaming promiscuity on the Pill, but let’s agree that if it hadn’t been introduced in the '60’s as the perfect solution to the “problems” of pregnancy and sleeping around, it wouldn’t nearly be as popular as it is now. Heck, they’re advertising it as an acne cure these days!
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"Priests who have sinned." That’s rich. What a euphemism for stealing childhood, for manipulating young minds and bodies, for scarring young boys (and girls), for violating and damaging their God-given sexuality. And I mentioned it as a response to a remark made by another poster earlier in the thread. I’m not the one who opened the door on it.

No monies would be paid out unless there was reasonable evidence that the priests were guilty of some level of molestation or other sexual activity. And the behaviors of these guilty priests should inflame Catholics, non-Catholics and “anti-Catholics” alike. Other denominations’ problems with the sexually predatory behaviors of clergy are immaterial to this thread.

The Pill was not introduced as the "perfect solution to the ‘problems’ of pregnancy and sleeping around’. For milennia women have been searching for methods to control their fertility and the size of their families. This has always been a question of economics. The fact that the Pill brought a measure of control and sexual freedom to women who chose to use it should not be of any consequence to women - or men - who find the use of the Pill “sinful”. If you don’t approve of artificial birth control, don’t use it.

Limerick
 
limerick said:
"Priests who have sinned." That’s rich. What a euphemism for stealing childhood, for manipulating young minds and bodies, for scarring young boys (and girls), for violating and damaging their God-given sexuality. And I mentioned it as a response to a remark made by another poster earlier in the thread. I’m not the one who opened the door on it.

No monies would be paid out unless there was reasonable evidence that the priests were guilty of some level of molestation or other sexual activity. And the behaviors of these guilty priests should inflame Catholics, non-Catholics and “anti-Catholics” alike. Other denominations’ problems with the sexually predatory behaviors of clergy are immaterial to this thread.

The Pill was not introduced as the "perfect solution to the ‘problems’ of pregnancy and sleeping around’. For milennia women have been searching for methods to control their fertility and the size of their families. This has always been a question of economics. The fact that the Pill brought a measure of control and sexual freedom to women who chose to use it should not be of any consequence to women - or men - who find the use of the Pill “sinful”. If you don’t approve of artificial birth control, don’t use it.

Limerick
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Is not what they did to those children a sin, and a terrible one at that? What else would you call it? :confused: I’m not denying the veracity of some of the accusations. I’m just saying there’s no reason to keep bringing it up, especially in the context of abortion.

Yes, the Pill was introduced as a panacea of sorts to women in the 1960’s as a way to further their sexual “freedom”. The Pill has made it so much easier for women to be more sexually active without the “punishment” of pregnancy, as our President has said. It is of consequence to those of us who don’t use it because it not only multiplies the culture of immorality and the breakdown of the family, but it is abortificient and adds to the numbers of unborn human beings who have lost their lives. We as Catholics have an obligation to inform others of the devastating effects of artificial birth control, and the natural, abortion-free way to space children.
 
Sugabee43 said:
Is not what they did to those children a sin, and a terrible one at that? What else would you call it? :confused: I’m not denying the veracity of some of the accusations. I’m just saying there’s no reason to keep bringing it up, especially in the context of abortion.

Yes, the Pill was introduced as a panacea of sorts to women in the 1960’s as a way to further their sexual “freedom”. The Pill has made it so much easier for women to be more sexually active without the “punishment” of pregnancy, as our President has said. It is of consequence to those of us who don’t use it because it not only multiplies the culture of immorality and the breakdown of the family, but it is abortificient and adds to the numbers of unborn human beings who have lost their lives. We as Catholics have an obligation to inform others of the devastating effects of artificial birth control, and the natural, abortion-free way to space children.
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**
Isn’t the Catholic obligation immensely larger and more pressing than to just “inform others”? And do you also inform others as to the failure rate of NFP?

Limerick**
 
I think the obligation is defined by each Catholic according to their own personal conscience. And NFP (sympto-thermal) is as effective as artificial birth control, according to various studies cited in the British Medical Journal, vol. 307, pg 723; including one study of almost 20,000 illiterate and poor women from India who used this method quite successfully.
 
Sugabee43 said:
I think the obligation is defined by each Catholic according to their own personal conscience. And NFP (sympto-thermal) is as effective as artificial birth control, according to various studies cited in the British Medical Journal, vol. 307, pg 723; including one study of almost 20,000 illiterate and poor women from India who used this method quite successfully.
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NFP may very well have the same results as other methods. But why choose it over the other methods?
 
Sugabee43 said:
I think the obligation is defined by each Catholic according to their own personal conscience. And NFP (sympto-thermal) is as effective as artificial birth control, according to various studies cited in the British Medical Journal, vol. 307, pg 723; including one study of almost 20,000 illiterate and poor women from India who used this method quite successfully.
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could you link me to their data if at all possible?
 
limerick said:
**
Isn’t the Catholic obligation immensely larger and more pressing than to just “inform others”? And do you also inform others as to the failure rate of NFP?

Limerick**
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If Catholics don’t want to use NFP, they can always make the choice to (gasp) abstain…
 
WillieWonka said:
NFP may very well have the same results as other methods. But why choose it over the other methods?
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Because it’s not abortificient, like the Pill and IUD, it doesn’t contain chemicals that can harm the woman or any baby she may conceive, and it does not interfere with the unitive or procreative aspect of conjugal love. Plus, it’s relatively cheap (all you need is a basal thermometer and a charting method). And, you don’t have to be able to read or write to do it!!🙂
 
Sugabee43 said:
Because it’s not abortificient, like the Pill and IUD, it doesn’t contain chemicals that can harm the woman or any baby she may conceive, and it does not interfere with the unitive or procreative aspect of conjugal love. Plus, it’s relatively cheap (all you need is a basal thermometer and a charting method). And, you don’t have to be able to read or write to do it!!🙂
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Well, apparently that is insufficient reason for customers. I recognize sellers think it is sufficient reason, but consumers don’t.

Consumers measure cost in more than money. Let’s assume all birth control methods are free. In that case, what are the behavioral costs of NFP vs the pill?
 
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