The rise of the Pentecostals

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josephback said:
At work. They said I was all debate. I guess I did sorta get away from the OP’s question. I don’t believe Pentecostalism’s growth is from God’s blessing or action. That answers question #3.

False religion blinds people, and having come from there, it (false religion’s blinding power) makes me angry. There is only one true Church.
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Them (whoever they are) telling you that you’re all debate tells me a lot.

Sorry that you come from a false religion. That would make anyone “angry” searching for the truth. I on the other hand, being raised Pentecostal was never “blinded by false religion”. Quite opposite, rather welcomed by my decision to become catholic.

Rather you believe they’re a false religion is based on your opinion. I happen to believe they are brother and sister Christians. God can judge their heart and souls. That is not my job.

Christ be with you.
 
4SquareBaby
Not only is my brother a pastor in this denomination but my father-n-law is a retired minister from the same one. It is Illinois that is corrupt. He has pastored in Mississippi and done fill-in in Indiana and never had these problems.
It doesn’t really have much to do with them supervising the local church. It has everything to do with the district being controlling. The local churches have a board that governs what they do with the church tithe. It is the ministers whose tithe has to be sent in to the district. I do think they changed that ruling though a year ago.
But even with that aside, I was in this denomination for almost 10 years and it is a lot of emotionalism, manipulation, brow beating, and condemnation. None of which are we supposed to endure. Jesus said that people would know we are his disciples by our love for one another. Not if we can speak or pray in tongues, not if we can manipulate a congregation by the music (I have been involved in music ministry 14 years so I do know what I speak of here), and definitely not if we condemn others. This is the whole reason my husband and I left our former church and why we are now on our way to converting to Catholicism.
In Catholicism there is a reverence and an awe for the presence of Christ. There is a seriousness in the entire Mass that is not seen in Pentecostal churches. We have spoken with our priest and I made the comment that they take it very serious. He said that they do take it serious because what Jesus did for us was serious.
The Mass is entirely Christ-centered, Christ reverencing, Christ honoring. The Pentecostal churches we’ve been in have not been.
 
Hello_All said:
Brazil used to be the largest catholic country in th world,with over 90% catholics,but this was abouit 15 yrs ago.few people know that one of the revered Penteocostal Leader in that country was incarcerated for smashing an statue of Patroness? of Brazil in fornt of millions of people.This enraged the Catholics and even the President,then.Unknowm,if he is still in prison.Few yrs from now,the politics in Brazil will be dictated by Pentecostals.Its not just there,but other Catholic countries that will become Evangelicals eventually.This is occuring in the Philippines,wherin a very powerful sect and is very anti Catholic ,who vote as a block ,has been dictating the govt on how to run it and has been successful in demanding that certain members of their sect be appointed in the upper echelon of the govt e.g. Ambassadors,Cabinet Menbers et al.

I have trust in CNN ,as they have local affiliates e.g. CNN en Espanol,en China,Arab etc.
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We’re talking about Brazil…they riot and kill each other over soccer games.

CNN was in error on the verdict of Obamacare just a few days ago for like 15 minutes telling the public false news! I have a hard time believing the media when it comes to religious truths above that.
 
Hello_All said:
Brazil used to be the largest catholic country in th world,with over 90% catholics,but this was abouit 15 yrs ago.few people know that one of the revered Penteocostal Leader in that country was incarcerated for smashing an statue of Patroness? of Brazil in fornt of millions of people.This enraged the Catholics and even the President,then.Unknowm,if he is still in prison.Few yrs from now,the politics in Brazil will be dictated by Pentecostals.Its not just there,but other Catholic countries that will become Evangelicals eventually.This is occuring in the Philippines,wherin a very powerful sect and is very anti Catholic ,who vote as a block ,has been dictating the govt on how to run it and has been successful in demanding that certain members of their sect be appointed in the upper echelon of the govt e.g. Ambassadors,Cabinet Menbers et al.

I have trust in CNN ,as they have local affiliates e.g. CNN en Espanol,en China,Arab etc.
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CNN is for liberals what FOX is for conservatives…

They are both bad… Secularism has never been good to any religion, lest it helps their purpose and/or sales.
 
plainatheart71 said:
4SquareBaby
Not only is my brother a pastor in this denomination but my father-n-law is a retired minister from the same one. It is Illinois that is corrupt. He has pastored in Mississippi and done fill-in in Indiana and never had these problems.
It doesn’t really have much to do with them supervising the local church. It has everything to do with the district being controlling. The local churches have a board that governs what they do with the church tithe. It is the ministers whose tithe has to be sent in to the district. I do think they changed that ruling though a year ago.
But even with that aside, I was in this denomination for almost 10 years and it is a lot of emotionalism, manipulation, brow beating, and condemnation. None of which are we supposed to endure. Jesus said that people would know we are his disciples by our love for one another. Not if we can speak or pray in tongues, not if we can manipulate a congregation by the music (I have been involved in music ministry 14 years so I do know what I speak of here), and definitely not if we condemn others. This is the whole reason my husband and I left our former church and why we are now on our way to converting to Catholicism.
In Catholicism there is a reverence and an awe for the presence of Christ. There is a seriousness in the entire Mass that is not seen in Pentecostal churches. We have spoken with our priest and I made the comment that they take it very serious. He said that they do take it serious because what Jesus did for us was serious.
The Mass is entirely Christ-centered, Christ reverencing, Christ honoring. The Pentecostal churches we’ve been in have not been.
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Could you elaborate on how this manipulation occurs for me?
 
kempo1 said:
You guysmight think i am crazy but i live in baton rouge area and if any of you know bout jimmy swaggert he has been buying up radio stations all over the u.s. and over seas with the economy tanking. He is even on sattelite t.v. and is getting his pentecostal message out big time and i believe this has helped the pentecostal movement big time.
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If you’ve been to Alexandria you would know that they are definitely on the rise. If you worked as a waiter or delivery person you would know that you won’t be getting a tip from them.
 
Cat said:
My husband and I are converts (8 years now) from evangelical Protestantism to Catholicism.

My husband grew up in the Assemblies of God, and several of his family members are still involved with this church.

I can’t speak for the other denominations of Pentecostalism, but the Assembles of God, along with many other evangelical non-Pentecostal denominations, encompasses a person’s entire life.

A person who attends the large AG church in our city can literally spend every waking moment, and even the sleeping moments, from birth to death, immersed in their church!

There is a huge thriving daycare which is very affordable because many of the employees consider this part of their ministry and service to God. There is a school that begins at age three and goes all the way through high school, and it is a darn good school with high achievers in academics, athletics, and arts. There is a college on the church campus. Children can attend Sunday school and various clubs from a very young age all the way to middle school. At middle school, the child begins attending the huge and very exciting youth group, which has something going on almost every night. Once the child grows up, they can get married, have children, and remain incredibly active in many different ministries in the church. Or they can seek and find employment at this church–there are a lot of jobs available with such a huge campus, including working in the very nice coffee shop! And of course, this continues all the way through old age, when they can move into the beautiful retirement center and eventually the nursing home on the church campus.

The only thing the church DOESN’T have on their campus is a cemetery!

For the people at the AG church, many of them have all of their friends through the church, and almost all their social activities take place with these friends, and often these social activities are done at the church campus.

Sound fun? It is fun. I have to admit that just yesterday, I was driving by my Catholic parish and thinking, “Wow, I never do anything with anyone in my parish, and other than going to Mass and practicing the organ, I really am not that involved with the parish at all.”

Yes, the ministries and social activities are available in our parish, but it seems to me that Catholics don’t feel any kind of obligation or desire to get involved on a constant basis, and they certainly don’t live their entire lives in and around their church and with church friends. This is a very different mindset than the typical Pentecostal or Evangelical Protestant, who is thrilled to be part of the fellowship in their church.

In fact, “fellowship” is one of the main reasons people are Protestant, and “lack of fellowship” is one of the main reasons people leave Catholic churches.

Now I’m not just talking about socials and banquets–I’m talking about an “immersing” of your entire life in the life of the church and being involved with a large number of the church members and attendees on a regular, often daily basis. THAT’s life in the Pentecostal and Evangelical churches.

I hope I am explaining this adequately. Unless you have lived it, it’s kind of hard to understand the appeal. It’s really very nice.

I play the piano for various church events, especially Masses, and my husband is an usher. That’s pretty much it–we do our little part and that’s all. No “Super Catholic” or hyper-involvement like we had in the evangelical Protestant church–back then, we were involved in our church 5-6 days/evenings a week, and did very little outside of the church (until we started getting involved with figure skating).

I think a lot of people are looking for a true “community” to be part of. I know that conservative and traditional Catholics often scoff at the idea of the “community” model of parish life. But it really is very very nice and satisfying and fulfilling to have a whole ton of friends that you see several times a week, and several very enjoyable ministries in the church that keep you busy and active. I really miss that, and I think it’s one of the big reasons why so many people are drawn to the Pentecostal churches and the various Evangelical churches, especially the non-denoms. It’s a great big life that feels good and lifts up your soul.
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Well said. I converted to Catholicism because I believe in the Sacraments and that the Church is the true Church, but I deeply miss the sense of community that was present as a Pentecostal. There are times I am tempted to go back, but I just remind myself that whilst community is good, God is more important and I find him more fully in the Catholic Church.

I do wish that Catholics were more community minded though.
 
PeterJohn said:
Could you elaborate on how this manipulation occurs for me?
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When we were in the music ministry at our former church (Charismatic/Pentecostal) which we found out was part of the Charismatic movement/New Apostolic Reformation Movement, we were on 4 worship teams and getting ready to lead a 5th team.
We were told by the pastor (who was our main worship leader) that we could not close our eyes while worshipping, that we had to maintain eye contact with the audience. I tried to tell him that the way I led worship was to “lead by example”. We weren’t allowed to do that. We had to engage the audience. We had to set the atmosphere. We were to begin with one or two faster songs, then move into more worshipful types of songs-slower, then at the very end we were to use another fast song in order to get people up off the floor. They would lie down prostrate on the floor and that is why we had to get them up off the floor.
We also had to keep a song going in order for those who were worshipping to be able to “enter in”. If we were doing a song and we noticed that the congregation wasn’t really “entering in” then we had to build the intensity of the song, be it with the instruments or our voices.
Every Saturday night was devoted to “Harp and Bowl” worship. This is where the musicians would simply play chords and we would use the Bible to sing from. At certain points we were to sing out “prophetically” which was actually only spontaneous singing.
For example, on Tuesday afternoons we had “Harp and Bowl” class where we were taught how to prophetically sing and minister on our instruments. What you do is take a passage of scripture, usually only a verse or two, and a prayer leader would read that out. Then the singers would each one take turns and sing off of the scripture that had been read. Even if nothing came to us that was “prophetic” we were to sing something out. Many times we would just repeat what had been sung by the previous singer.
If we saw the congregation really entering in to “worship” then a lot of times we would intensify the worship by going into “warfare worship”. This was a lot of drums and tribal sounding music.
It was very much man centered and not Christ centered. It drew attention to the ones’ on the worship teams and not on Christ at all.
 
Wow allot of posts on this subject. Pentecostalism is simply a Christians belief in the literal infilling of Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost as some prefer to say) as those on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:4. It does not mean emotional, irrational, or weird but it is an understanding that the believer needs to be filled or empowered by the Holy Spirit to be effective in the service of the Lord. Being spirit filled does not make an individual emotional, but lets face it I can be emotional about my local sports team, entertainer, politician so why can’t I be joyful about the actual presence of God within me? The Holy Spirit moves upon or within a person but is expressed within the persons’ personality…if you are not overly emotional the Holy Ghost won’t make you overly emotional. Acts 1:8 does say “But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you.”

Do not be fooled psychologically and/or emotionally manipulative by anyone. “…They that worship the Lord must worship him in spirit and in truth,” John 4:24. To understand what the truth is read the Bible for yourself and what you learn should be confirmed in you as you hear it s in church.

I do not belief God is blessing one church or denomination more than another. There are some people in every bible believing church who are just ready to do what God requires of them. They are the blessed ones that are seeing the results of the labor for the Lord. Again this is what the Holy Spirit equips a true believer to do get results in what they do for God…and that is what pleases him…Be Blessed!
 
If it weren’t for Pentecostalism, I wouldn’t be Catholic.

I mean that in the sincerest, with love to my brothers and sisters in the Pentecostal faith 🙂
 
PeterJohn said:
The pentacostal churches are on a steady rise in the US. They are the fastest growing denomination in the US.
  1. What makes them so popular?
  2. Are they phsycologicly and/or emotionally manipulative?
  3. Is God blessing these church’s and if so, why?
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I was, until recently, a member of an Assemblies of God church. AG is one of the denominations with a strong growth rate, both in the USA and worldwide. I have little previous experience with Pentecostalism.

The AG affiliation is something they didn’t shy away from, but didn’t emphasize either. If you visited, you probably wouldn’t know until after several visits unless you specifically asked. It’s a good community with a good pastor, and I didn’t find it to be especially manipulative, either psychologically or emotionally, at least no more so than average for non-denominational conservative evangelical churches, which is what I thought it was for the first month I attended.

Is God blessing it? Well, as a church it seems to be doing pretty well, and has some very good people. Other than that, I couldn’t really say.

So why did I leave? Because of the very conservative theology, and the cultural and political associations of the conservative evangelical branch of Protestantism. I don’t fit with that branch very well anymore. My theology, though still creedally orthodox, is more liberal and “emergent” now, and I’m politically and culturally a libertarian, not a social conservative. I match up better with the mainline, and accordingly I exited stage left, to an “emergent” Anglo-Catholic church with TEC and ELCA affiliations. I remain continuationist, and I have no bad feelings toward my previous church, and would recommend it to those who can fit in, but I’m glad I made the change.
 
PeterJohn said:
The pentacostal churches are on a steady rise in the US. They are the fastest growing denomination in the US.
  1. What makes them so popular?
  2. Are they phsycologicly and/or emotionally manipulative?
  3. Is God blessing these church’s and if so, why?
Click to expand...
I was a cradle Catholic who left the Church for many years and, much later, joined an AOG church. The reason I was attracted to the Pentecostals was because they seemed, on the surface at least, to be the least ashamed of the gospel. They desired the gifts of the spirit, believed literally in miracles and expected them-not necessarily for any kind of selfish reasons. They evangelized, sharing their faith more openly, they aspired to a stronger fellowship with each other and their worship was often inspiring and uplifting.

The problem ended up being, for myself, that while such aspirations for holiness and the working of the Holy Spirit in our lives are praiseworthy, the ways in which it’s accomplished-or claimed to be-are generally quite human rather than Spirit driven. I had to find out the hard way that not all holiness movements are the real thing, even if they may appear to be at first glance, and also found out by direct experience that non-Catholics have no monopoly on sanctity and Catholics have no monopoly on scandals. The historical Church became a necessity for me-no other would suffice regardless of their claims.

Having said all that, God blesses faith, however imperfect, because it pleases Him, as scripture tells us. And there is much faith in Pentecostal Churches.
 
PeterJohn said:
The pentacostal churches are on a steady rise in the US. They are the fastest growing denomination in the US.
  1. What makes them so popular?
  2. Are they psychologically and/or emotionally manipulative?
  3. Is God blessing these church’s and if so, why?
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For number one I think it is the warmth and caring they show. When I was AOG they always bent over backwards to make you feel welcomed and part of the community, contrast this to the CC when I first went and it was an ice box. They are vibrant and excited about Christ I never got that in the Catholic Church and still don’t except for the internet

For number two some can be like some televangelist but for the most part no, they just make one feel important and accepted from the moment they com in.

For number three I would say yes, why you would have to ask Him 🙂
 
Frankly, I think some of you are being a little too charitable toward them. Calling the Pentecostals heretics seems wrong as well. They are heterodox. I’m not even sure that we should call them Christians. The Nicene Creed was created to define what Christians believe. Any group that doesn’t accept it falls outside of that definition. From an ecumenical council stand, the Pentecostals are no more Christian than the Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Jeh—'s Witnesses, or Moslems. I don’t say that to belittle them, but instead to be precise. We had an accepted definition of Christianity, and they don’t fit it. To say that God could be blessing them in their ministry seems to suggest that God is blessing non-Christians in their non-Christianity. I think that violates church doctrine, no?
 
i don’t know much about pentecostals except they don’t cut their hair (woman) and woman and girlks wear dresses. I could be wrong in this and if I am I am so sorry I don’t live near a pentecostal church that I am aware of
 
FrancisB said:
Frankly, I think some of you are being a little too charitable toward them. Calling the Pentecostals heretics seems wrong as well. They are heterodox. I’m not even sure that we should call them Christians. The Nicene Creed was created to define what Christians believe. Any group that doesn’t accept it falls outside of that definition. From an ecumenical council stand, the Pentecostals are no more Christian than the Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Jeh—'s Witnesses, or Moslems. I don’t say that to belittle them, but instead to be precise. We had an accepted definition of Christianity, and they don’t fit it. To say that God could be blessing them in their ministry seems to suggest that God is blessing non-Christians in their non-Christianity. I think that violates church doctrine, no?
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Agreed.
They are also guilty of sheep stealing from Catholics and Orthodox in Traditionally Christian countries. God’s blessing indeed. :rolleyes:
 
FrancisB said:
Frankly, I think some of you are being a little too charitable toward them. Calling the Pentecostals heretics seems wrong as well. They are heterodox. I’m not even sure that we should call them Christians. The Nicene Creed was created to define what Christians believe. Any group that doesn’t accept it falls outside of that definition. From an ecumenical council stand, the Pentecostals are no more Christian than the Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Jeh—'s Witnesses, or Moslems. I don’t say that to belittle them, but instead to be precise. We had an accepted definition of Christianity, and they don’t fit it. To say that God could be blessing them in their ministry seems to suggest that God is blessing non-Christians in their non-Christianity. I think that violates church doctrine, no?
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Whoa. So you don’t think I’m a Christian? That’s funny I’m in complete agreement with the Nicene Creed:

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

Agree

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

Agree

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

Agree

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Agree

How do we Pentecostals not fit in with the “definition” of Christianity?
 
PattyPryor said:
i don’t know much about pentecostals except they don’t cut their hair (woman) and woman and girlks wear dresses. I could be wrong in this and if I am I am so sorry I don’t live near a pentecostal church that I am aware of
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Some do. Most of us don’t. My mother is a lifelong Pentecostal. She wears her hair short. Loves pants.
 
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