The rise of the Pentecostals

[ltwin]

I should add for clarification to the above:

Pentecostals distinguish between the Holy Spirit dwelling in a person and the Spirit filling that person. The Spirit dwells in a Christian upon conversion or the new birth. But being filled with the Spirit is not a one time event. We must be “continually filled with the Spirit.” Spirit baptism is the initial filling, which is accomplished by seeking God for it.

 

[4Squarebaby]

The Assemblies of God and Church of God are the two largest Pentecostal churches in the world. The AG has 60 million worldwide; the Church of God has a smaller number. They are very similar, but their theologies have slightly different flavors. The Church of God (Cleveland, TN) and its offshoots have a Wesleyan-holiness or Methodist background and influence. The Assemblies of God has a Baptistic or Reformed flavor. In America, the Church of God has its strength in the Southern USA. The American AG’s strength is in other places.

Overall, the differences are more cultural, historical, or methodological than theological. A member of the AG will be very comfortable in a Church of God most likely and vice versa.

In North America, the trinitarian Pentecostal and Charismatic churches fellowship together as part of the Pentecostal/Charismatic Churches of North America. Worldwide, trinitarian Pentecostal churches fellowship together in the Pentecostal World Conference. There is cooperation and understanding between the different denominations.

I think at the moment the mostly African American based Church of God In Christ (COGIC) is claiming to be the largest Pentecostal denomination in the US and may be above the Church of God in numbers worldwide. I guess nobody wants to add the monkey wrench of the Charismatics to this discussion. Yes Catholics do believe in the speaking of tongues and you do have your Charismatic organizations with their Bishops backing.

You want the traditional answer?

Based on the pattern we observe in the Book of Acts, speaking in unknown tongues is believed to be the initial physical evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit. It is not the only evidence, just a physical one.

That baptism in the Holy Spirit is not conversion or salvation. It occurs after the conversion experience or new birth. It is when the Spirit comes upon a believer to give him or her more strength and more power to live the Christian life.

The can continue to make use of this unknown language in prayer. Our minds are unfruitful but our spirits pray (1 Corinthian 14: 13-15). This is useful when we do not know how to pray.

The other form of speaking unknown tongues is the gift of tongues. This is a spiritual gift that allows a believer to speak in unknown tongues under the direction of the Holy Spirit to give a word or message to the assembled congregation. This message must be interpreted by the gift of interpretation. This is laid out in 1 Corinthians 14.

.

 

[ltwin]

I think at the moment the mostly African American based Church of God In Christ (COGIC) is claiming to be the largest Pentecostal denomination in the US and may be above the Church of God in numbers worldwide. I guess nobody wants to add the monkey wrench of the Charismatics to this discussion. Yes Catholics do believe in the speaking of tongues and you do have your Charismatic organizations with their Bishops backing.

Yeah in America (not sure of the COGIC’s international numbers) the COGIC has like 5 or 6 million members. The AG has 3 million. The Church of God (Cleveland, TN) has at or above 1 million. Overall, I think there are about 20 million Pentecostals in the USA. I can’t remember if that number only includes the membership of denominations or if it includes estimates of the unorganized Pentecostal movement in the USA as well.

 

[Taestron]

If we are talking about classical Pentecostals, there are two groups: Trinitarian Pentecostals (the majority) and Oneness Pentecostals (which are unitarian). There are 740 recognized Pentecostal denominations throughout the world.

Let me be clear: Trinitarian Pentecostals believe that all born again Christians are saved (we also believe it is possible to BACKSLIDE). Trinitarian Pentecostals do NOT believe that speaking in tongues is a requirement to be saved. We don’t even believe that being Pentecostal is a requirement to be saved.

From my experience (I used to be Pentecostal) many Pentecostal churches are also non-denominational. And by that I mean they only have tentative links with other Pentecostal Churches especially where historical groupings are concerned. And so they are no more one with other Pentecostals than with any other Protestant churches.

I would caution that even though speaking in tongues is not an essential requirement for salvation, there is an air of disapproval for those who do not speak in tongues. Almost as if that if someone was doing everything they should, they would be speaking in tongues. This was the main reasons I left the Church actually, but this is not the thread to get into this argument:thumbsup:

Now that we have that out of the way lets talk about the others. The Church of the Nazarene is a Wesleyan-holiness church. It is NOT a Pentecostal church. The first Pentecostals were Wesleyan-holiness Christians. However, the established holiness churches, the Nazarene Church being one of them, rejected speaking in tongues as the initial physical evidence of the Spirit baptism.

Probably the confusion is due to the fact that the full name for this denomination is the Pentecostal Church of the Nazarene. Despite this, there is no connection between the Pentecostals and the Nazarenes.

 

[just_came_back]

As somebody who was raised COG-Cleveland, I was floored when I was told recently that COG and most AOG groups would now be called “liberal” pentecostals based on the teachings of some of these oneness groups. WOW!!!

I would actually say COG more than AOG. Heck, there are actually 4-7 different COG groups and while almost all consider themselves pentecostal, about half I believe are charismatic. For example, COG-Anderson, IN is not charismatic and I heard they don’t even use instruments in their worship services.

 

[andrewstx]

Some things Pentecostals do I don’t understand at all.
Are Assemblies of God, Oneness Pentecostal, Church of Nazerne, Apostolic Church of Christ, Church of God etc all considered one? How do you explain speaking in tongues, etc? Unfortunately, I’ve had bad experiences, so forgive me for my ignorance

Thank You.

God Bless!! +

I know nothing about Apostolic Church of God, but groups with apostolic in the name tend to be oneness and deny the Holy Trinity. The biggest oneness church is the United Pentecostal church.

Church of the Nazarene is not Pentecostal at all, they are a “holiness church” that does not use toungues. Their background is Wesleyan Holliness and not Pentecostal at all.

There are several groups all using the name Church of God, some Pentecostal, others Holiness depending on denomination.

The Assemblies of God is the largest Pentecostal church. ITwin is a member of the Assemblies of God.

They are all seperate chruches.

 

[ltwin]

I know nothing about Apostolic Church of God, but groups with apostolic in the name tend to be oneness and deny the Holy Trinity. The biggest oneness church is the United Pentecostal church.

Church of the Nazarene is not Pentecostal at all, they are a “holiness church” that does not use toungues. Their background is Wesleyan Holliness and not Pentecostal at all.

There are several groups all using the name Church of God, some Pentecostal, others Holiness depending on denomination.

The Assemblies of God is the largest Pentecostal church. ITwin is a member of the Assemblies of God.

They are all seperate chruches.

One could argue that Pentecostal and Wesleyan-holiness are two sides to the same coin.

I’m not AOG. I was raised and still attend a non-denominational church. It was founded as a Pentecostal Church of God (which is an offshoot and very similar to the Assemblies of God). I have also have some weak connection to two Pentecostal Holiness congregations.

However, I respect the AG alot, and think I fit there more than any other denomination. However, I worry that it is only Pentecostal in name today and is every year become more evangelical and less Pentecostal. Pentecostals are evangelicals, but we are also more than evangelical–we are Pentecostal. And I fear that the AG is losing that distinction.

As somebody who was raised COG-Cleveland, I was floored when I was told recently that COG and most AOG groups would now be called “liberal” pentecostals based on the teachings of some of these oneness groups. WOW!!!

They aren’t liberal in the sense of blessing same sex marriage like the Episcopal Church. It’s just as I said above, many of their members no longer testify to having received the baptism in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. The Assemblies of God is almost in crisis mode really as the older leadership sees the enduemment with spiritual power made available through Spirit baptism as a core doctrine and reason for its success as a global missionary church. But today, many younger minister’s question this doctrinal distinctive and no longer teach it or allow times for their congregations to seek for it in prayer.

From my experience (I used to be Pentecostal) many Pentecostal churches are also non-denominational. And by that I mean they only have tentative links with other Pentecostal Churches especially where historical groupings are concerned. And so they are no more one with other Pentecostals than with any other Protestant churches.

Well, there are connections. They just tend to be based on relationships and not formal structures. And they pretty much, whether denominational or not, all believe the same things. I observe that most Pentecostals don’t choose a local church because it belongs to a particular denomination, they choose it because they believe it teaches sound doctrine and is spiritually vibrant.

I would caution that even though speaking in tongues is not an essential requirement for salvation, there is an air of disapproval for those who do not speak in tongues. Almost as if that if someone was doing everything they should, they would be speaking in tongues. This was the main reasons I left the Church actually, but this is not the thread to get into this argument:thumbsup:

I know there are people like that, but I say in recent decades the tide is turning in the other direction. Many Pentecostals struggle with the doctrine of initial evidence, and they try to downplay the importance of speaking in tongues so that non-Pentecostals are not offended.

Probably the confusion is due to the fact that the full name for this denomination is the Pentecostal Church of the Nazarene. Despite this, there is no connection between the Pentecostals and the Nazarenes.

That was the Nazarene Church’s official name. But once the Pentecostal revival began full swing, the word “Pentecostal” became associated with tongues and the Nazarene Church felt dropping the word was the safest way to disassociate itself.

 

[4Squarebaby]

However, I respect the AG alot, and think I fit there more than any other denomination. However, I worry that it is only Pentecostal in name today and is every year become more evangelical and less Pentecostal. Pentecostals are evangelicals, but we are also more than evangelical–we are Pentecostal. And I fear that the AG is losing that distinction.

They aren’t liberal in the sense of blessing same sex marriage like the Episcopal Church. It’s just as I said above, many of their members no longer testify to having received the baptism in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. The Assemblies of God is almost in crisis mode really as the older leadership sees the enduemment with spiritual power made available through Spirit baptism as a core doctrine and reason for its success as a global missionary church. But today, many younger minister’s question this doctrinal distinctive and no longer teach it or allow times for their congregations to seek for it in prayer.

I have heard similar statements from some of the elder members of my church, but as I understand the denomination’s history there have been up and down periods of speaking in tongues and other outward manifestations. Today we are in a down period it has been years since I have heard anyone publicly pray in their language, outside of visiting COGIC churches or hearing their Gospel singers, and never heard a translated word given in an unknown tongue in my 12 years as a Christian and member of two Foursquare churches.

I have theorized, being a child in the Methodist Church when the change occurred, that many took Chuck Smith’s objections to heart when the Calvary Chapel movement began that there was to much emphasis in seeking the Holy Spirit. So we are now again in a down period

 

[ltwin]

I have heard similar statements from some of the elder members of my church, but as I understand the denomination’s history there have been up and down periods of speaking in tongues and other outward manifestations. Today we are in a down period it has been years since I have heard anyone publicly pray in their language, outside of visiting COGIC churches or hearing their Gospel singers, and never heard a translated word given in an unknown tongue in my 12 years as a Christian and member of two Foursquare churches.

I have theorized, being a child in the Methodist Church when the change occurred, that many took Chuck Smith’s objections to heart when the Calvary Chapel movement began that there was to much emphasis in seeking the Holy Spirit. So we are now again in a down period

I understand. But at the same time, if you’re a Pentecostal and you’ve never heard a message and interpretation of tongues in your home church, then something is wrong. If you can visit a Pentecostal church and are told that you’re not allowed to pray at the altar then something is wrong. If you’re in a Pentecostal church but the gifts of the Spirit are hidden away in a back room somewhere, then something is wrong. If you’re a Pentecostal denomination and your spiritual life committee issues this statement:

Our relationship to God has been forged in the fire of the Holy Spirit. Our theology rightly recognizes that God empowers His Church to fulfill His purposes. Yet, the distinctive doctrine that once united us has, in some circles, become a point of contention. We lament the increasing rarity of the gifts of the Spirit in our worship setting. We wonder where, in our busy church schedules, will people have an opportunity to tarry at the altars for a transforming Pentecostal experience? Some of our elders fear that we have lost something most precious, and their cry must be heard. The emerging generation longs for the fullness of the Spirit’s power in a fresh demonstration that enables them to reach their changing generation. Their strategies should not be dismissed. In our early days we were a movement unafraid of the unconventional. Is the fabric of our tent tearing because we have stretched it to the breaking point in trying to embrace new ideas, or is our tent torn because of dry rot, an inability to adapt?

something is wrong. (Quote taken from Spiritual Life Committee Report, page 9 of Assemblies of God USA General Council Minutes 2007)

 

[Imcatholic7]

The pentacostal churches are on a steady rise in the US. They are the fastest growing denomination in the US.

1. What makes them so popular?
2. Are they phsycologicly and/or emotionally manipulative?
3. Is God blessing these church’s and if so, why?

I am sure God loves them and blesses them. But, for me the talking in tongues…no thanks.

 

[anp1215]

I wasn’t raised in a particular church, but the church my mom and I went to the longest was an Assemblies of God church. This was in elementary school. The children’s church was fun. I was cast in a lead role in the Christmas play and that was a lot of fun too. As others have mentioned, they had great fellowship opportunities.

I also grew up as a preteen going to Church of God (another Pentecostal denomination) camp. I loved camp (loved, loved, loved it) but some of the church aspects bothered me. One year we had a guest preacher who I did not like, because he would kind of “trick” you into going up for the altar call. He would say things like “Who here loves Jesus? Stand up if you love Jesus” so of course everyone would stand up. And then, “if you’re standing up, come on down to the altar.” That irritated me. Why would he want insincere people to go to the altar? When I was younger, I was more sincere, and would go to the altar willingly. One night my friends and I spent three hours at the altar, crying and praying. I never spoke in tongues, but they did.

My grandparents are United Pentecostals. They are the ones that don’t believe in the Trinity, women wear their hair long, don’t wear pants. I remember as a little kid, going to church with them and my cousin (the same one I went to camp with), and going to the “prayer room,” a darkened room where the people…mill around, crying and speaking in tongues. We were giggling and got a stern rebuke from our grandmother. We had no idea what was going on! That little cousin I giggled with in the prayer room is about to be ordained in the Church of God.

Pentecostals run the gamut as far as style and theology. One thing in common I would say is the charismatic worship and tongues. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think all Pentecostals do that.

 

[CaptFun]

Lol. This sounds like a horror movie aimed at the liberal left. :bigyikes:

 

[anp1215]

Lol. This sounds like a horror movie aimed at the liberal left. :bigyikes:

Your horror movie quote just reminded me of something else from the Assembly days…

Anyone else here raised Pentecostal that went to one of those horror type shows depicting Hell? The ones showing sinful people going to Hell? If I recall correctly, it also showed good people going to Heaven. The only specific part I remember was a rock star type lady who went to Hell and she said something like “But I love God! Look I even have this cross around my neck!” and the Devil said “You think that will save you?” or something.

 

[cath4alltime]

I remember the thief in the night series (I admit I like the song"Wish we’d all been ready") and doing rapture plays in the AOG when I was growing up. I remember things I miss like the Royal Rangers and the sense of community. When my folks went home they fixed meals and confronted me and my family, I have to say the AOG is a great place all in all

 

[Taestron]

Your horror movie quote just reminded me of something else from the Assembly days…

Anyone else here raised Pentecostal that went to one of those horror type shows depicting Hell? The ones showing sinful people going to Hell? If I recall correctly, it also showed good people going to Heaven. The only specific part I remember was a rock star type lady who went to Hell and she said something like “But I love God! Look I even have this cross around my neck!” and the Devil said “You think that will save you?” or something.

I remember my parents taking me to see something called “Heaven’s Gates and Hell’s Flames.” It was different sketches about people’s eternal fates, and since it was generically Protestant the only people that got into Heaven were the ones who “gave their heart to the Lord.” While most of the people who made it to heaven were wholesome, there were a few sketches about God’s ability to save any sinner. The sketch that stands out in my mind was about a drunk girl who was contemplating suicide before becoming Christian. While it might be cheesy today, back then, I think it was an honest attempt to convert people, and I don’t think it was done in any sort of better-than-you type attitude. The message was firmly that anyone could be saved, as long as they “gave their heart to the Lord”

 

[RileyG]

That’s OK. We feel the same way about Catholics.

If we are talking about classical Pentecostals, there are two groups: Trinitarian Pentecostals (the majority) and Oneness Pentecostals (which are unitarian). There are 740 recognized Pentecostal denominations throughout the world.

Let me be clear: Trinitarian Pentecostals believe that all born again Christians are saved (we also believe it is possible to BACKSLIDE). Trinitarian Pentecostals do NOT believe that speaking in tongues is a requirement to be saved. We don’t even believe that being Pentecostal is a requirement to be saved.

Around 80 out of the 740 denominations are Oneness Pentecostals or “Jesus’ Name” or “Apostolic” (as they refer to themselves). These deny the doctrine of the Trinity. They believe in water baptism using the formula “In the Name of Jesus Christ” or similar. They also believe that water baptism and Spirit baptism with the evidence of speaking in tongues are experiences essential to being saved. Therefore, if one has not spoken in tongues they are not really saved.

Now that we have that out of the way lets talk about the others. The Church of the Nazarene is a Wesleyan-holiness church. It is NOT a Pentecostal church. The first Pentecostals were Wesleyan-holiness Christians. However, the established holiness churches, the Nazarene Church being one of them, rejected speaking in tongues as the initial physical evidence of the Spirit baptism.

The Assemblies of God and Church of God are the two largest Pentecostal churches in the world. The AG has 60 million worldwide; the Church of God has a smaller number. They are very similar, but their theologies have slightly different flavors. The Church of God (Cleveland, TN) and its offshoots have a Wesleyan-holiness or Methodist background and influence. The Assemblies of God has a Baptistic or Reformed flavor. In America, the Church of God has its strength in the Southern USA. The American AG’s strength is in other places.

Overall, the differences are more cultural, historical, or methodological than theological. A member of the AG will be very comfortable in a Church of God most likely and vice versa.

In North America, the trinitarian Pentecostal and Charismatic churches fellowship together as part of the Pentecostal/Charismatic Churches of North America. Worldwide, trinitarian Pentecostal churches fellowship together in the Pentecostal World Conference. There is cooperation and understanding between the different denominations.

You want the traditional answer?

Based on the pattern we observe in the Book of Acts, speaking in unknown tongues is believed to be the initial physical evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit. It is not the only evidence, just a physical one.

The Holy Spirit dwells inside of all Christians.

The baptism in the Holy Spirit is not conversion or salvation. It occurs after the conversion experience or new birth. It is when the Spirit comes upon a believer to give him or her more strength and more power to live the Christian life. The baptism in the Holy Spirit is a filling with the Spirit. It is a “clothing with power from on high.”

Those filled with the Spirit can continue to make use of this unknown language in prayer. Our minds are unfruitful but our spirits pray (1 Corinthian 14: 13-15). This is useful when we do not know how to pray.

The other form of speaking unknown tongues is the gift of tongues. This is a spiritual gift that allows a believer to speak in unknown tongues under the direction of the Holy Spirit to give a word or message to the assembled congregation. This message must be interpreted by the gift of interpretation. This is laid out in 1 Corinthians 14.

God bless you too.

Thank you for your response!
God Bless.

 

[ltwin]

Pentecostals run the gamut as far as style and theology. One thing in common I would say is the charismatic worship and tongues. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think all Pentecostals do that.

If this was 1950 you might be correct. But today, that’s not correct. There are some local churches that are affiliated with Pentecostal denominations that run from tongues like its the plague. I would say that all Pentecostals BELIEVE in charismatic worship and tongues. Today, however, they may not practice what they believe in.

 

[anp1215]

If this was 1950 you might be correct. But today, that’s not correct. There are some local churches that are affiliated with Pentecostal denominations that run from tongues like its the plague. I would say that all Pentecostals BELIEVE in charismatic worship and tongues. Today, however, they may not practice what they believe in.

Makes no sense to me (I think you agree). Pentecostalism indicates the focus on baptism in the holy spirit, evidenced by speaking in tongues. That would be like saying, “It’s a Catholic church, but they don’t really do that liturgical stuff. We believe in it though.” haha!

 

[ltwin]

Makes no sense to me (I think you agree). Pentecostalism indicates the focus on baptism in the holy spirit, evidenced by speaking in tongues. That would be like saying, “It’s a Catholic church, but they don’t really do that liturgical stuff. We believe in it though.” haha!

You’re right. It doesn’t make sense; unless you understand the history of the Pentecostal movement in this country. Early on, we were rejected by our Wesleyan-holiness brothers. Later we were rejected by our Fundamentalist cousins. It was only when the “new evangelicals” began to distinguish themselves from the hardcore Fundamentalists that Pentecostals gained some friends. There was a catch, however. Evangelicals saw us as Christians, but they were totally against tongues and other charismatic gifts. So, we compromised.

The result was that evangelicals over time have softened their resistance to charismatic gifts. It’s not unusual to see evangelicals raising their hands and swaying to worship music anymore. Likewise, Pentecostals overtime have become more sensitive to evangelical criticism towards our distinctive practices. More control has been exerted over services. People who become emotional during services are ushered into special prayer rooms so they don’t disturb anyone else.

This early alliance with American evangelicalism prevented Pentecostals from ever developing our own theological resources. We just took evangelical theology and tacked on tongues and spiritual gifts to the end of it. The result? Pentecostals who think like evangelicals. And that’s where we’re at right now.

 

[just_came_back]

You’re right. It doesn’t make sense; unless you understand the history of the Pentecostal movement in this country. Early on, we were rejected by our Wesleyan-holiness brothers. Later we were rejected by our Fundamentalist cousins. It was only when the “new evangelicals” began to distinguish themselves from the hardcore Fundamentalists that Pentecostals gained some friends. There was a catch, however. Evangelicals saw us as Christians, but they were totally against tongues and other charismatic gifts. So, we compromised.

The result was that evangelicals over time have softened their resistance to charismatic gifts. It’s not unusual to see evangelicals raising their hands and swaying to worship music anymore. Likewise, Pentecostals overtime have become more sensitive to evangelical criticism towards our distinctive practices. More control has been exerted over services. People who become emotional during services are ushered into special prayer rooms so they don’t disturb anyone else.

This early alliance with American evangelicalism prevented Pentecostals from ever developing our own theological resources. We just took evangelical theology and tacked on tongues and spiritual gifts to the end of it. The result? Pentecostals who think like evangelicals. And that’s where we’re at right now.

Wow. I did not know that. My parents still attend a COG and even they’ve said that things have calmed down over the years so to speak. To be honest with you, speaking in tongues never really bothered me that much. Of course when the same person gave the same sounds verbatim and the SAME interpreter pretty much said the same thing, I always wondered about that.

But, I will say this, I can still see and hear some good people being moved into tongues who I know were 100% genuine. It was the more running, leaping, dancing, jerking and gyrating that used to really unnerve me and I as I grew older, I felt some folks were really just showing off. My mom used to tell me that you could know who was touched and who was showing off. Peace.