The rise of the religious left

[Carlan]

I don’t know about any “Answers” forum. I’m posting here on Catholic Answers Forum.

Nah, you get over that politics remains vital to discuss by Christians. Maybe some of us can persuade CAF Administrators to reinstate some kind of forum where political discussions are allowed.

Under any type of government, we can love our neighbor and live Christian lives. Under anti-Catholic governments in Asia and such, it’s proven difficult to find priests to administer the Holy Eucharist.
That’s why it’s vital to discuss different forms of govenment.

And, peace be with your spirit.
Don

Sorry for cutting CA short
I alway appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut Don.
I don’t know why CA cut their political forum, however, I rarely went there for the posters were most uncharitable for the most part. Peace, Carlan

 

[TheTrueCentrist]

Just because you prioritize morality as subsequent to idealogy doesn’t mean anybody else does nor has to.

I see the both of them as separate issues, and my reason (idealogy) I make serve as the handmaiden to my faith (morality). I have found that when reason strays from faith, then all types of maladies and evil abound, imho.

Once again, I am saying that morality is a subset of Ideology.

That means:
Ideology = moral beliefs + social beliefs + economic beliefs + …

I did not say that morality is caused by ideology, precisely the opposite.

 

[TheTrueCentrist]

There is no right to health, that’s a God given gift and people who abuse it deserve the maladies their abuse causes.

The issue is not “people have a right to health” but “people have a right to health care.” The problem was that insurance companies (free market) had no incentive to insure people with pre-existing conditions over which the people had no control, things like domestic violence and birth defects. This meant that certain people did not have access to the same levels of health care as did healthy people.

I have never understood how any Catholic could vote Democratic… That’s why I’m an Independent boter, careful of all propaganda, political or religious.

You just keep doing your thing.

I’ve lived through the Adminstrations since FDR, and as an adult, since Nixon. At one time, the Republican and Democratic parties balanced each other in fulfilling the nation’s needs. No more, that balance has been gone since the '70’s of the Twentieth Century.

I am gravely depressed, watching the demise of free America, it’s sovereignty sabatoged by internationalist Democrats and internationalist Republicans and international academics. Nationalism has a many good points as bad, and internationalism has more bad points than good. So much for worldly politics.

Remember this? youtube.com/watch?v=KCOd-qWZB_g&feature=player_embedded

 

[CMatt25]

I agree with the conservatives who think that the government’s business is building roads and dams, guarding the border and preserving and gaurding our Constitution and the rights and liberties it grant to all of us. The other issues belong in the private markets.

There is no right to health, that’s a God given gift and people who abuse it deserve the maladies their abuse causes.

I have never understood how any Catholic could vote Democratic, once I saw the light.

I’m an Independent boter…

I am gravely depressed, watching the demise of free America

The private markets are at least partially the cause for a lot of the mess we find ourselves in. I am amazed when I hear folks saying oh if only business or the wealthy who create jobs weren’t taxed as much they would create jobs. No. Greed sets in. We already went down that path. The wealthy were given tax cuts and we ended up with the worst recession since the Great Depression.

If you don’t understand how any Catholic could vote Democratic, I have to assume you’re not really an Independent voter then, at least not if you choose between the 2 parties.

But of course health care is a right. The Preamble of the Constituion includes, "We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare…

The 9th amanedment, The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Promoting the general welfare and not denying the right to affordable, adequate healthcare as another right we wish to retain sure sounds like it is constitutional.

But I’m disgruntled with both parties too. And I am gravely depressed along with you. I’m depressed because the social Gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ has taken a backseat to other issues like abortion, gay marriage, and stem cells.

Peace on your journey with Him.

 

[CMatt25]

With you protesting Catholic teaching on such basic issues, I can’t help but wonder if you could be a closet Protestant.

And, peace be with your spirit.

No you don’t have to wonder if you follow all Church teaching as to who is a Catholic. I just rechecked my papers.

And thank you and peace be always with yours as well. God bless!

 

[Carlan]

The private markets are at least partially the cause for a lot of the mess we find ourselves in. I am amazed when I hear folks saying oh if only business or the wealthy who create jobs weren’t taxed as much they would create jobs. No. Greed sets in. We already went down that path. The wealthy were given tax cuts and we ended up with the worst recession since the Great Depression.

If you don’t understand how any Catholic could vote Democratic, I have to assume you’re not really an Independent voter then, at least not if you choose between the 2 parties.

But of course health care is a right. The Preamble of the Constituion includes, "We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare…

The 9th amanedment, The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Promoting the general welfare and not denying the right to affordable, adequate healthcare as another right we wish to retain sure sounds like it is constitutional.

But I’m disgruntled with both parties too. And I am gravely depressed along with you. I’m depressed because the social Gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ has taken a backseat to other issues like abortion, gay marriage, and stem cells.

Peace on your journey with Him.

Good post ,Matt I agree with the exception of the last paragraph. I think the Lord is heart broken over abortion and the other moral issues and wants us to continues to speak up for the rights of the unborn and the family, as well as all the social justice issues in our beloved country. Peace, Carlan

 

[colliric]

Does that mean that Republicans are smarter then?

Seriously though, before 2050? Sounds more like JWs and Adventists. I think it’s very unlikely that Jesus returns before the end of this century.

I favour a spiritual interpretation. I think the second coming will occur at the time that the earth’s existence is no more. It could be anywhere from today or tommorow, or not for another 50 million years… We don’t know when Jesus will come again only that it will happen.

 

[CMatt25]

Good post ,Matt I agree with the exception of the last paragraph. I think the Lord is heart broken over abortion and the other moral issues and wants us to continues to speak up for the rights of the unborn and the family, as well as all the social justice issues in our beloved country. Peace, Carlan

Carlan, I knew if I stayed around long enough we’d agree on something :hug1: and you’d like one of my posts at least for the most part. :extrahappy: I hope all is well with you and your family and may peace and His blessings be always with you and yours.

 

[Janet_S]

Good post ,Matt I agree with the exception of the last paragraph. I think the Lord is heart broken over abortion and the other moral issues and wants us to continues to speak up for the rights of the unborn and the family, as well as all the social justice issues in our beloved country. Peace, Carlan

Just read this speech by Bishop Chaput about religious liberty and the mission of Catholics.

archden.org/index.cfm/ID/4396

This part of his speech explains why the abortion issue is critical to understanding all other social justice issues:

In practice, however, we see that without a belief in fixed moral principles and transcendent truths, our political institutions and language become instruments in the service of a new barbarism. In the name of tolerance we come to tolerate the cruelest intolerance; respect for other cultures comes to dictate disparagement of our own; the teaching of “live and let live” justifies the strong living at the expense of the weak.

This diagnosis helps us understand one of the foundational injustices in the West today – the crime of abortion.

I realize that the abortion license is a matter of current law in almost every nation in the West. In some cases, this license reflects the will of the majority and is enforced through legal and democratic means. And I’m aware that many people, even in the Church, find it strange that we Catholics in America still make the sanctity of unborn life so central to our public witness.

Let me tell you why I believe abortion is the crucial issue of our age.

First, because abortion, too, is about living within the truth. The right to life is the foundation of every other human right. If that right is not inviolate, then no right can be guaranteed.

Or to put it more bluntly: Homicide is homicide, no matter how small the victim.

Here’s another truth that many persons in the Church have not yet fully reckoned: The defense of newborn and preborn life has been a central element of Catholic identity since the Apostolic Age.

I’ll say that again: From the earliest days of the Church, to be Catholic has meant refusing in any way to participate in the crime of abortion – either by seeking an abortion, performing one, or making this crime possible through actions or inactions in the political or judicial realm. More than that, being Catholic has meant crying out against all that offends the sanctity and dignity of life as it has been revealed by Jesus Christ.

The evidence can be found in the earliest documents of Church history. In our day – when the sanctity of life is threatened not only by abortion, infanticide and euthanasia, but also by embryonic research and eugenic temptations to eliminate the weak, the disabled and the infirm elderly – this aspect of Catholic identity becomes even more vital to our discipleship.

My point in mentioning abortion is this: Its widespread acceptance in the West shows us that without a grounding in God or a higher truth, our democratic institutions can very easily become weapons against our own human dignity.

Our most cherished values cannot be defended by reason alone, or simply for their own sake. They have no self-sustaining or “internal” justification.

There is no inherently logical or utilitarian reason why society should respect the rights of the human person. There is even less reason for recognizing the rights of those whose lives impose burdens on others, as is the case with the child in the womb, the terminally ill, or the physically or mentally disabled.

If human rights do not come from God, then they devolve to the arbitrary conventions of men and women. The state exists to defend the rights of man and to promote his flourishing. The state can never be the source of those rights. When the state arrogates to itself that power, even a democracy can become totalitarian.

What is legalized abortion but a form of intimate violence that clothes itself in democracy? The will to power of the strong is given the force of law to kill the weak.

 

[Janet_S]

I don’t though worry all that much anymore about Nancy Pelosi being corrected by bishops who had in their ranks men who preached about the sanctity of life but who knew no better or couldn’t even keep themselves from covering up child abuse.

I understand the disappointment and discouragement people have over the sex-abuse scandal, but not all bishops were involved, and still, as successors to the Apostles, they have a mission to proclaim and teach the faith.

Invoking the scandal as a way to ignore Chuch teaching seems like a cop-out to me, especially when it comes to the right to life. As Catholics, we have to challenge not only our culture, but also our own minds.

 

[CMatt25]

As Catholics, we have to challenge not only our culture, but also our own minds.

Janet, that’s what I try to do in forming my conscience on matters of faith and in how I shall carry out my faith and morals in the political arena living in a democracy of plural beliefs. Instead of me just accepting indocrtrination, I first with much prayer, contemplation and study, do strive to challenge my mind to think and reason for itself, weighing those challenges against the doctrine thrust upon my mind. In doing these, I can then form my conscience of which I must follow or else condemn myself. (CCC 1790) God bless you on your faith journey and peace to you always.

 

[Janet_S]

Janet, that’s what I try to do in forming my conscience on matters of faith and in how I shall carry out my faith and morals in the political arena living in a democracy of plural beliefs. Instead of me just accepting indocrtrination, I first with much prayer, contemplation and study, do strive to challenge my mind to think and reason for itself, weighing those challenges against the doctrine thrust upon my mind. In doing these, I can then form my conscience of which I must follow or else condemn myself. (CCC 1790) God bless you on your faith journey and peace to you always.

There’s no “striving” for those who go along with the abortion status quo. It’s the easiest thing in the world to do.

 

[CMatt25]

There’s no “striving” for those who go along with the abortion status quo. It’s the easiest thing in the world to do.

It wasn’t for me. I wrestled with the issue. Still do on occasion. But I had to decide how I was going to deal with it in a democracy of plural beliefs on it. We may just have to agree to disagree. But again God bless you on your journey, Janet. And peace.

 

[Carlan]

Carlan, I knew if I stayed around long enough we’d agree on something :hug1: and you’d like one of my posts at least for the most part. :extrahappy: I hope all is well with you and your family and may peace and His blessings be always with you and yours.

Glad I helped make your day dear Matt, and thank you for the hugs and blessings. I do pray for you!
Peace, Carlan

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[Sailor_Kenshin]

I’m not so sure about that. Certainly the phrase “Moral Majority” stirred up more resentment, since it suggested that anyone opposed to it was immoral. To me “religious right” is a neutral phrase. Even Jerry Falwell used it when, in 1989, he closed down the Moral Majority.

time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,958023,00.html

However, phrases and words can sometimes change their meanings with the passage of time. If persons find it pejorative, that is reason enough to choose an alternative label. Would Christian Right be acceptable?

No.

 

[CMatt25]

Glad I helped make your day dear Matt, and thank you for the hugs and blessings. I do pray for you!
Peace, Carlan

Thank you Carlan. We can never have too many prayers. As James taught let us pray for one another. Peace. God bless!

 

[donsnow]

Sorry for cutting CA short
I alway appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut Don.
I don’t know why CA cut their political forum, however, I rarely went there for the posters were most uncharitable for the most part. Peace, Carlan

Thanks, Carlan.

Yeah, politics is sort of loveless, to some people.

Don

 

[larkin31]

Have you read the US Constitution? The Establishment Clause was made to protect the Church from the State, not the other way round.

No

It was meant to protect the individual from a church-state coalition.

 

[larkin31]

There’s no “striving” for those who go along with the abortion status quo. It’s the easiest thing in the world to do.

I have to agree with Matt. I have known many abortion supporters who have actually struggled long and hard with the ethical and social and legal dynamics of this.

In the same way that I know some Catholics who have struggled with the same things, although they have come to other conclusions. Just because people disagree in the end, does not mean that they have not been thinking hard along the way.

 

[donsnow]

Once again, I am saying that morality is a subset of Ideology.

That means:
Ideology = moral beliefs + social beliefs + economic beliefs + …

I did not say that morality is caused by ideology, precisely the opposite.

I think that ideas are of the mind, and morals are of the heart. Two different origins, two different things.

Looks like we disagree.