The Role of Women in Islam

[Neverland]

Dear Gonzales,

Have you ever hit your wife? If yes, what is her reaction?

Neverland

 

[r.gonzales]

Neverland:

Have you ever hit your wife? If yes, what is her reaction?

no.

 

[discipleofJesus]

r.gonzales:

that is your personal opinion.

no it’s not my personal opinion. just like i know that murdering people is wrong and raping women is wrong, i know that hitting women is wrong.
TEXT DELETED

r.gonzales:

again, and here i thought you knew arabic. why don’t you go find the source books quoted (of which many are available in word format on the internet) and varify these things for yourself if you don’t believe me?..(and also perhaps because contrary to what you claim, you probably don’t really know arabic).

I didn’t say I know how to read Arabic. I said I know Arabic. Which I do know. I know how to speak Arabic quite fluently. But I don’t know how to read and write Arabic.

r.gonzales:

oh, i know what i’m talking about perfectly well. and your assertion that you are open to correction couldn’t be further from the truth. how many times have you admitted that you are wrong?

So your omniscient now? How would you know if I’m open to correction or not? Do you know my intentions? I’ll admit I am wrong when/if I am proven wrong.

r.gonzales:

how many times have you accepted the statements and explanations of qualified scholars of islam concerning the misinformation and “evidences” you bring? none.

Like I said before, not all Muslims follow what scholars say, in fact Muslims often dismiss what scholars say without hesitation, when you show them something from a scholar, saying things like ‘i don’t care about what this scholar said, show me from the Quran or Hadith’

The scholars you quoted contradict the example of Muhammad in the Hadith i quoted about him hitting his wife. I asked questions about this yet you refuse to answer them. I am not bound to accept (as true Islam) what scholars say if there if the example of Muhammad in the Hadith clearly contradicting what the scholars are saying.
Since you keep avoiding my question and keep accusing me of things that aren’t true. I will repeat the Hadith and questions again!

Sahih Muslim
Book 004, Number 2127:
"Muhammad b. Qais said (to the people): Should I not narrate to you (a hadith of the Holy Prophet) on my authority and on the authority of my mother? We thought that he meant the mother who had given him birth. He (Muhammad b. Qais) then reported that it was 'A’isha who had narrated this: Should I not narrate to you about myself and about the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)? We said: Yes. She said: When it was my turn for Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi’. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A’isha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?.."

Did Aisha deserve to be hit for this?

For what reason/s was she hit for?

One of the reasons I am asking about Muhammad hitting his wife Aisha is because you claim “islam allows a husband to hit his wife as a last resort before divorce if she is displaying animosity and hostility, causing discord within the family”
Well I don’t see any of those things in the story of Muhammad hitting his wife Aisha.

r.gonzales:

you are here to attack, vilify, degrade and debase islam and muslims.

Simply not true. I am here to help fellow Christians defend Christianity.

 

[discipleofJesus]

Booklover:

…What I find astonishing is that you accept everything Mohammed claimed blindly, whether it’s about abrogation, revelations or anything else!..

Here’s an interesting quote from Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah (The Life of Muhammad), A. Guillaume, tr. (New York: Oxford University Press, 1980), p. 369. [bold emphasis mine]

“The apostle said, “Kill any Jew that falls into your power.” Thereupon Muhayyisa bin Mas’ud leapt upon Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish merchant with whom they had social and business relations, and killed him. Huwayyisa was not a Muslim at the time though he was the elder brother. When Muhayyisa killed him Huwayyisa began to beat him, saying, “You enemy of God, did you kill him when much of the fat on your belly comes from his wealth?” ** Muhayyisa answered, “Had the one who ordered me to kill him ordered me to kill you I would have cut your head off.” He said that this was the beginning of Huwayyisa’s acceptance of Islam. The other replied, “By God, if Muhammad had ordered you to kill me would you have killed me?” He said, “Yes, by God, had he ordered me to cut off your head I would have done so.” He exclaimed, “By God, a religion which can bring you to this is marvelous!”** And he became a Muslim.”

Had Muhammad ordered Muhayyisa to kill his brother Huwayyisa, Muhayyisa would seemingly have done so without hesitation!

Huwayyisa actually thought this was a good thing and became a Muslim because of this

 

[discipleofJesus]

Booklover:

…What I find astonishing is that you accept everything Mohammed claimed blindly, whether it’s about abrogation, revelations or anything else!..

Bertrand Russell asked where God derived the moral law. He said that either it is beyond God and He is subject to it (and hence, not the ultimate good), or it is an arbitrary selection of codes that originated in God’s will. So either God is not ultimate or He is arbitrary; in either case He is not fit to be worshiped.

Muslims seems to believe that moral law is an arbitrary selection of codes that originated in God’s will.

The moral problem

Islamic voluntarism poses a serious moral problem. If God is only will, without an essence, then he does not do things because they are right; rather they are right because he does them. God is arbitrary about what is right and wrong. He does not have to do good. He does not have to be loving to all; he could hate, if he chose to do so. Indeed, in sura 3:32 we read, “God will love you… God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful,” but verse 33 says that “God loveth not those Who reject Faith.” So love and mercy are not of the essence of God. God could choose not to be loving. This is why Muslim scholars have such difficulty with the question of God’s predestination.

Taken from
An Overview of Islamic Beliefs by Dr. Norman Geisler
ankerberg.org/Articles/islam/IS1200W2.htm

Christians believe that the moral law is rooted in God’s good and loving nature. This is not an ultimate beyond God, but within Him. And it is impossible for God to will something that is not in accordance with His nature. God is good and cannot will evil arbitrarily. So there is no dilemma

The moral law is either beyond God or arbitrary

Bertrand Russell asked where God derived the moral law. He said that either it is beyond God and He is subject to it (and hence, not the ultimate good), or it is an arbitrary selection of codes that originated in God’s will. So either God is not ultimate or He is arbitrary; in either case He is not fit to be worshiped. Russell fails to exhaust the possibilities, however, and we can sidestep the horns of his dilemma. Our contention is that the moral law is rooted in God’s good and loving nature. This is not an ultimate beyond God, but within Him. And it is impossible for God to will something that is not in accordance with His nature. God is good and cannot will evil arbitrarily. So there is no dilemma.

Taken from
Questions About God: Some Objections by Dr. Norman Geisler
ankerberg.org/Articles/theological-dictionary/TD0899W4.htm
(bold emphasis mine)

cont…

 

[discipleofJesus]

…

Thomas Aquinas provided the definitive answer to plotinian agnosticism and mysticism. Aquinas argued that an effect must resemble its cause. “You cannot give what you have not got.” Hence, if God causes goodness, he must be good. If he caused being, he must be (Geisler, Thomas Aquinas, chap. 9).

Objections to this view generally confuse either a material or instrumental cause with an efficient cause. The efficient cause of something is that by which it comes to be. The instrumental cause is that through which it comes to be. And the material cause it that out of which it is made. Material and instrumental causes do not necessarily resemble their effects, but efficient causes do. The painting does not resemble the artist’s paint brush, but it does resemble the artist’s mind. The brush is the instrumental cause, whereas the artist is the efficient cause.

Another mistake is to confuse material and efficient causality. Hot water is soft, yet it can cause an egg to get hard, because of properties in the egg. The same hot water softens wax. The difference is the material receiving the causality. Thus an infinite God can and does cause a finite world. God is not thereby finite because he caused a finite cosmos. Nor is he contingent because he, as a Necessary Being, caused a contingent universe. Finiteness and contingency are part of the very material nature of a created being. God is unlike creation in these kinds of ways. On the other hand, everything that exists has being, and God is Being. There must be a similarity between Being and being. God is pure actuality, with no potentiality whatsoever. Everything else that exists has the potential not to exist. So all created things have actuality; since they actually exist, and potentiality; since they could possibly not exist. God is like creatures in their actuality but unlike them in their potentiality; This is why when we name God from his effects we must negate whatever implies finitude and limitation or imperfection, and attribute to him only the pure attribute or perfection. This is the reason that evil cannot be attributed to God but good can. Evil implies imperfection or privation of some good characteristic. Good, on the other hand, does not in itself imply either limitation or imperfection. So God is good by his very nature but he cannot be or do evil.

Taken from
An Overview of Islamic Beliefs by Dr. Norman Geisler
ankerberg.org/Articles/islam/IS1200W2.htm
(bold emphasis mine)

The reason I am pointing out the difference between what Christians believe about God and morals and what Muslims believe about God and morals is because perhaps this is why we Christians can clearly see the immoral things that are accepted or commanded in Islam and Muslims just accept them and assume they are good?

Jesus said
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16** You will know them by their fruits**. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.”
(Matthew 7:15-20)

God said
“Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!”
(Isaiah 5:20)

 

[discipleofJesus]

Question :

**Is it permissible for a man to force his wife or slave ** to have intercourse if she refuses?.

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

The woman does not have the right to refuse her husband, rather she must respond to his request every time he calls her, so long as that will not harm her or keep her from doing an obligatory duty.

Al-Bukhaari (3237) and Muslim (1436) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “If a man calls his wife to his bed and she refuses, and he spends the night angry with her, the angels curse her until morning.”

If she refuses with no excuse, she is disobeying and is being defiant (nushooz), and he is no longer obliged to spend on her and clothe her.

The husband should admonish her and remind her of the punishment of Allaah, and forsake her in her bed.** He also has the right to hit her**, in a manner that does not cause injury. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allaah is Ever Most High, Most Great”

[al-Nisa’ 4:34]

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked what a husband should do if his wife refuses him when he asks for intimacy.

He replied:

It is not permissible for her to rebel against him or to withhold herself from him, rather if she refuses him and persists in doing so, he may hit her in a manner that does not cause injury, and she is not entitled to spending or a share of his time [in the case of plural marriage].” Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 32/279.

And he was asked about a man who has a wife who is rebellious and refuses intimacy – does she forfeit the right to maintenance and clothing, and what should she do?

He replied:

She forfeits her right to maintenance and clothing if she does not let him be intimate with her. He has the right to hit her if she persists in being defiant. It is not permissible for her to refuse intimacy if he asks for that, rather she is disobeying Allaah and His Messenger (by refusing). In al-Saheeh it says: “If a man calls his wife to his bed and she refuses, the One Who is in heaven will be angry with her until morning comes.”

From Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 32/278. The hadeeth was narrated by Muslim, 1736.

So the wife should be admonished first, and warned against defiance (nushooz) and of the anger of Allaah and the curse of the angels. If she does not respond, then the husband should forsake her in her bed, and if she does not respond to that, then he may hit her in a manner that does not cause injury. If none of these steps are effective, then he may stop spending on her maintenance and clothing, and he has the right to divorce her or to allow her to separate from him by khula’ in return for some financial settlement, such as giving up the mahr.

**Similarly a slave woman does not have the right to refuse her master’s requests unless she has a valid excuse. If she does that she is being disobedient and he has the right to discipline her in whatever manner he thinks is appropriate ** and is allowed in sharee’ah.

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com))

Taken from 63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=33597&dgn=4 ( islam-qa.com/ )
[bold and underline emphasis mine]

so if a wife refuses to have sex with her husband with no excuse, it is considered defiance (nushooz) and the husband has the right to hit her (but he should warn her first [if that doesn’t work] then he should forsake her in her bed [if that doesn’t work] then he may hit her)?

 

[r.gonzales]

discipleofJesus:

How would you know if I’m open to correction or not? Do you know my intentions? I’ll admit I am wrong when/if I am proven wrong.

i don’t know your intentions, only Allah knows that. i can however judge according to what i’ve witnessed. and i can safely say that i have never once witnessed a willingness from you to accept correction or even admit that you’ve been proven wrong.

discipleofJesus:

Sahih Muslim Book 004, Number 2127
Did Aisha deserve to be hit for this?
For what reason/s was she hit for?

firstly, let’s take a look at the word used in the hadeeth. in the narration found in saheeh muslim the word used is “lahada” which linguistically means to overburden or to overexert. al-imam an-nawawee, who authored an explanation of saheeh muslim, states, “it has been narrated as ‘lahazanee’ and both are close [in meaning]. the people of language said lahadahu and lahhadahu meaning he pushed him. and it is said lahazahu is if he struck him with his fist in his chest.” in explanation of this hadeeth as found in his explanation of sunan an-nasaa’ee, as-sindee states, “al-lahz is striking with the fist in the chest. and in some of the copies is “then he lahada me” and it is the strong push in the chest. and this was as a punishment for her due to her evil suspicion.”

what they describe is the exact manner in which prophet muhammad “hit” aa’ishah; he pushed her in the chest using his fist. it wasn’t an actual strike or punch.

discipleofJesus:

Simply not true. I am here to help fellow Christians defend Christianity.

i say it is true. and as the old sports addage goes, the best defense is a good offense, right? like i said, you’re here to attack, vilify, degrade, and debase islam and muslims and your numerous posts are a testimony to this fact.

 

[discipleofJesus]

r.gonzales:

i say it is true. and as the old sports addage goes, the best defense is a good offense, right? like i said, you’re here to attack, vilify, degrade, and debase islam and muslims and your numerous posts are a testimony to this fact.

there are many Muslims in my life who are close to me and who I love very much. I haven’t “attacked, vilified, degraded, and debased” any Muslims so don’t falsely accuse me of things. I haven’t attacked Islam either. I am stating the truth about Islam. How is stating the truth about Islam “attacking, vilifying, degrading, and debasing” Islam?
If someone says something false about Islam I will correct it.

I am here to defend Christianity, but if I see something false about Islam (Muhammad never hit any of his wives, Islam is a peaceful religion etc) I will correct it. Sometimes I might want to discuss an Islamic topic. Sometimes I might want to reveal something about Islam that I think is important for my fellow Christians to know.

Don’t forget, this is a Christian forum.

 

[discipleofJesus]

r.gonzales:

btw,

that wouldn’t be because you’re egyptian, would it?

nope, i am not egyptian. what does not knowing how to read and write arabic have to do with being egyptian?

 

[discipleofJesus]

r.gonzales:

btw,

that wouldn’t be because you’re egyptian, would it?

what does that have to do with being egyptian? i’m not even egyptian.

 

[exoflare]

discipleofJesus:

this isn’t an ad hominem, just something i observed from some of your posts. it’s a bit hard to refrain from using ad hominems when the person you a talking to won’t stop using ad hominems on you and others. so one ad hominem in reply to you isn’t too bad compared to how much ad hominems you have made. but like i said, it isn’t even an ad hominem. just something i observed from some of your posts.

For what it’s worth, you’re correct… he has been warned of this from several people before too, but seems to be the only one here who can’t see it.

 

[discipleofJesus]

exoflare:

For what it’s worth, you’re correct… he has been warned of this from several people before too, but seems to be the only one here who can’t see it.

thanks

i think the moderator should warn him about his ‘endless’ ad hominems and should suspend him if he doesn’t stop them.
Other logical fallacies that he likes to use are
*Poisoning the Well, Composition, Appeal to Ridicule, Hasty Generalization, Personal Attack and Red Herrings. *
Not to mention his false accusations.

 

[r.gonzales]

discipleofJesus:

I am stating the truth about Islam. How is stating the truth about Islam “attacking, vilifying, degrading, and debasing” Islam?
If someone says something false about Islam I will correct it.

perfect example of what i mentioned above…

you are the (self-imposed) authority of islamic teachings. you know what’s correct islamic belief and the muslim doesn’t. you are not open to correction. you are here to propagate your misinformation concerning islam, to impose your understanding as right and the muslims’ understanding as wrong. you are here to attack, vilify, degrade and debase islam and muslims. you are the authority of correct islamic beliefs, the muslims are just spreading lies to mislead others into thinking that islam is not the way you say it is.

discipleofJesus:

there are many Muslims in my life who are close to me and who I love very much. I haven’t “attacked, vilified, degraded, and debased” any Muslims so don’t falsely accuse me of things. I haven’t attacked Islam either.

haha. what a croc. that’s like someone saying the word “nig…” and then saying, “i’m not racist, i have many black friends who i am close with and love dearly.” you claim friendship and love to these muslims around you, yet to you, portraying their way of life, their beliefs, their religion in a light contrary to how it really is is not attacking them? you say “islam treats women badly” “islam is not a tolerant religion” “muhammad is a false prophet, a pedeophile” and other such comments and you’re not attacking islam? get real.

discipleofJesus:

I am here to defend Christianity

which is why the vast majority of your posts are concerning islam? most of the muslim posters to this site, with the exception of a small few, spend their time here trying to defend islam from attacks against it. very few of them come here to attack christianity.

discipleofJesus:

Don’t forget, this is a Christian forum.

i’m well aware of that fact, thank you very much. i’m also aware of the fact that the particular forum we’re posting in is about non-catholic religions, among which islam is one of the often discussed religions, and of which you and other posters continue to post misinformation concernng my religion and display no care for taking what muslims say about their religion when you’re corrected.

 

[Ortho]

I have noticed that defenders of Christianity must feel a good offense is the best defense.

 

[the_phoenix]

Having read through this thread, I have not seen any reasons given as to why a woman would willingly want to choose to become a Muslim.

I have, in other places, read that Muslims do honor Mary, Mother of Jesus.

Comments on the above two statements are welcome.

~~ the phoenix

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

The last post was a perfect segway to getting BACK ON TRACK.

Thanks!

Rachel

 

[discipleofJesus]

r.gonzales:

haha. what a croc. that’s like someone saying the word “nig…” and then saying, “i’m not racist, i have many black friends who i am close with and love dearly.”

it’s nothing like that! i never referred to Muslims using an offensive name. Nig… is an offensive name for a Black person

r.gonzales:

you claim friendship and love to these muslims around you, yet to you, portraying their way of life, their beliefs, their religion in a light contrary to how it really is is not attacking them?

your claim of me “portraying their way of life, their beliefs, their religion in a light contrary to how it really is” is false and misleading.

Firstly, I am not “portraying their way of life, their beliefs, their religion in a light contrary to how it really is” since the way i portray Islam is truly how Islam is.

Secondly, I am not saying all Muslims act like this, so my friends might not do these things that I say Islam teaches because they are not very strict Muslims who follow their religion perfectly. So I am not attacking all Muslims and how all Muslims live, but I am pointing out that Islam treats women badly, at least that is what I believe. I am allowed to state what I believe.

Also, just because people may do something I believe is wrong, doesn’t mean I don’t or can’t love them

r.gonzales:

you say “islam treats women badly” “islam is not a tolerant religion” “muhammad is a false prophet, a pedeophile” and other such comments and you’re not attacking islam? get real.

“muhammad is a false prophet” so what? all Christians believe Muhammad is a false prophet?

“islam treats women badly” so what? that’s what I believe and I have reasons for that as I have stated in my above posts, i am allowed to believe that.

“muhammad is a pedeophile” I never actually used the word ‘pedeophile’. I said he consumated marriage with a 9 year old girl when he was 54 years old and I said this was a horrible and immoral act. so what?

 

[Neverland]

Dear Gonzales,

You said:
haha. what a croc. that’s like someone saying the word “nig…” and then saying, “i’m not racist, i have many black friends who i am close with and love dearly.” you claim friendship and love to these muslims around you, yet to you, portraying their way of life, their beliefs, their religion in a light contrary to how it really is is not attacking them? you say “islam treats women badly” “islam is not a tolerant religion” “muhammad is a false prophet, a pedeophile” and other such comments and you’re not attacking islam? get real.

It’s is called “attacking the messenger”. How can someone portray a belief and quoting the verses from your Books and you said that he/she attacked you? People’s way of thinking is different. And this is why this discussion forum is made.
The theme of Women in Islam has been discussed before, in the thread “Women Stupid?”

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=83766

I remember a moslem teacher of mine one day stated that Islam regards women highly, higher than any religion and Islam brings a light to the women who were surpressed in the Jahiliyyah era.
From the discussion I found, I conclude, NO, it’s not true. And my ex-teacher’s statement is what I can call MISLEADING.

You also said:
which is why the vast majority of your posts are concerning islam? most of the muslim posters to this site, with the exception of a small few, spend their time here trying to defend islam from attacks against it. very few of them come here to attack christianity.

Actually I should say that what DOJ’s said is correct. You may know or not know, that some Islamic Evangelists/or moslems used the unsupecting people who are in doubt of their religion to bring them to Islam. Yet the evangelists never revealed that:

1. Apostasy will bring you death in Islam.
2. Women is treated as lower (have lower right) than women.
   Defending Christianity is also done by giving infomation about other religion. I don’t see anything wrong about it. Ahmed Deedat did that everywhere to show that Islam is the only way, even Denis Giron has ever been dragged to Islam (but he is an apostate now). Why is that? If you want to read his testimony, you will find that out:

apostatesofislam.com/

The conclusion mostly is that the people are not well informed.

You said again:
i’m well aware of that fact, thank you very much. i’m also aware of the fact that the particular forum we’re posting in is about non-catholic religions, among which islam is one of the often discussed religions, and of which you and other posters continue to post misinformation concernng my religion and display no care for taking what muslims say about their religion when you’re corrected.

Oh, actually we are listening to what you said intently, because we want to know and more informed about Islam. But of course, we make a comparative study which is a MUST and we also should state if things you interpreted don’t come to our logic, as you tried to do in your search of question concerning Christianity that you claimed you have left. So please don’t be sensitive to our questionings.

Neverland

 

[discipleofJesus]

Neverland:

Dear Gonzales,

…
You also said:
which is why the vast majority of your posts are concerning islam? most of the muslim posters to this site, with the exception of a small few, spend their time here trying to defend islam from attacks against it. very few of them come here to attack christianity.

Actually I should say that what DOJ’s said is correct. You may know or not know, that some Islamic Evangelists/or moslems used the unsupecting people who are in doubt of their religion to bring them to Islam. Yet the evangelists never revealed that:

1. Apostasy will bring you death in Islam.
2. Women is treated as lower (have lower right) than women.
   Defending Christianity is also done by giving infomation about other religion. I don’t see anything wrong about it. Ahmed Deedat did that everywhere to show that Islam is the only way, even Denis Giron has ever been dragged to Islam (but he is an apostate now). Why is that? If you want to read his testimony, you will find that out:

apostatesofislam.com/

The conclusion mostly is that the people are not well informed.

That’s exactly right. Many people become Muslims under a false understanding of Islam, they don’t know everything about Islam have being deceieved or misinformed about Islam etc. It is also true that Ahmed Deedat spread sooooooooo much wrong/false information about Christianity and most Muslims I have met till now love what he taught and believe it was correct. They actually think he was a scholar of the Bible lol which is far from the truth.

Notice that my signature is

“Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil…”
(Isaiah 5:20)

“My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge…”
(Hosea 4:6)