The Role of Women in Islam

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discipleofJesus:
It is also true that Ahmed Deedat spread sooooooooo much **wrong/false information ** about Christianity and most Muslims I have met till now love what he taught and believe it was correct.
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i.e. It is also true that Ahmed Deedat spread sooooooooo much misinformation about Christianity and most Muslims I have met till now love what he taught and believe it was correct.
 
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discipleofJesus:
i.e. It is also true that Ahmed Deedat spread sooooooooo much misinformation about Christianity and most Muslims I have met till now love what he taught and believe it was correct.
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I note a great deal of misinformation being spread about Islam. Many Christians believe this misinformation. Having lived in Saudi for many years, it’s very interesting to read the flawed understanding of the country which many Christians have.
 
Dear Ortho,

You said:
note a great deal of misinformation being spread about Islam. Many Christians believe this misinformation. Having lived in Saudi for many years, it’s very interesting to read the flawed understanding of the country which many Christians have.

So tell me, what is wrong in the information I have:
  1. there are no Churches and no Church is allowed to be built.
  2. Bibles are also limited if not prohibited.
  3. Mecca is forbidden for non moslem.
  4. Women in Saudi cannot go alone and without hijjab outside her house. They also can’t drive.
    And please tell me, what we have got wrong. I really want to know.
Neverland
 
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Neverland:
Dear Ortho,

You said:
note a great deal of misinformation being spread about Islam. Many Christians believe this misinformation. Having lived in Saudi for many years, it’s very interesting to read the flawed understanding of the country which many Christians have.

So tell me, what is wrong in the information I have:
  1. there are no Churches and no Church is allowed to be built.
  2. Bibles are also limited if not prohibited.
  3. Mecca is forbidden for non moslem.
  4. Women in Saudi cannot go alone and without hijjab outside her house. They also can’t drive.
    And please tell me, what we have got wrong. I really want to know.
Neverland
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Let me add one more

In Saudi Arabia
  1. conversion by a Muslim to another religion is considered apostasy, a crime punishable by death.
 
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discipleofJesus:
Let me add one more

In Saudi Arabia
  1. conversion by a Muslim to another religion is considered apostasy, a crime punishable by death.
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by the way, by adding point 5) I am not implying that I think the 4 points that Neverland put are correct, since I do not know if they are (since i haven’t studied or researched almost anything about Saudi Arabia) but i am pretty sure that my point (i.e. point 5) is correct.
 
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Neverland:
It’s is called “attacking the messenger”. How can someone portray a belief and quoting the verses from your Books and you said that he/she attacked you?
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it’s called attacking someone theologically, and my analogy fits regardless if you fail to see it or not. you think that you can make generalised assertions about islam, take islamic texts, distort, misuse and misinterpret them and think that muslims who follow its teachings to the best of their ability will not consider that to be an insult and an attack against their whole being? what a croc. how foolish this distinction you make between an individual and his religion is is perfectly depicted in this passage from orientalism.In Scott’s novel The Talisman (1825), Sir Kenneth (of the Crouching Leopard) battles a single Saracen to a standoff somewhere in the Palestinian desert; as the Crusader and his opponent, who is Saladin in disguise, later engage in conversation, the Christian discovers his Muslim antagonist to be not so bad a fellow after all. Yet he remarks:
I well thought . . . that your blinded race had their descent from the foul fiend, without whose aid you would never have been able to maintain this blessed land of Palestine against so may valiant soldiers of God. I speak not thus of thee in particular, Saracen, but generally of thy people and religion. Strange is it to me, however, not that you should have the descent from the Evil One, but that you should boat of it.For indeed the Saracen does boast of tracing his race’s line back to Eblis, the Muslim Lucifer. But what is truly curious is not the feeble historicism by which Scott makes the scene “medieval,” letting Christian attack Muslim theologically in a way nineteenth-century Europeans would not (they would, though); rather, it is the airy condescension of damning a whole people “generally” while mitigating the offense with a cool “I don’t mean you in particular.”​
source: said, edward. orientalism (25th anniversary edition), pg. 101. vintage books, new york.

read, reflect and see the parallels.
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discipleofJesus:
your claim of me “portraying their way of life, their beliefs, their religion in a light contrary to how it really is” is false and misleading. Firstly, I am not “portraying their way of life, their beliefs, their religion in a light contrary to how it really is” since the way i portray Islam is truly how Islam is.
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wrong. you are portraying islam not how it truly is, you are portraying it how you see it. many muslims who are knowledgeable of their religion and have studied it view their religion contrary to the way you portray it. and that’s a fact.

let’s take this topic of how islam teaches its adherents to treat women (although the thread is actually on women’s role in islam). islam teaches me, the muslim man to treat his wife with respect and dignity. prophet muhammad, in an authentic hadeeth, told us (quoted from memory), “the best of you are those who are best to your famililes.” yet you, non-muslim (self-appointed authority on islamic tenets), would have us believe that islam teaches muslim men to beat their wives on account of mere suspicion, to degrade and humiliate them, view them as inferiours and not as equals, to treat them like sex-slaves and animals with little or no rights.
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discipleofJesus:
Secondly, I am not saying all Muslims act like this, so my friends might not do these things that I say Islam teaches because they are not very strict Muslims who follow their religion perfectly. So I am not attacking all Muslims and how all Muslims live, but I am pointing out that Islam treats women badly, at least that is what I believe. I am allowed to state what I believe.
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subhaanallah! because some of the muslims who you know aren’t the best followers of the religion they obviously claim adherence to, that means it’s ok to attack their religion and it’s not considered an attack on their persons because they don’t practice it like they should??? that’s quite some method of reasoning you’ve got there. may Allah give you and i guidance to that which He loves and is pleased with.
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Neverland:
The theme of Women in Islam has been discussed before, in the thread “Women Stupid?”
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yes, i’m well aware of that. i took part in the discussion.
 
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r.gonzales:
it’s called attacking someone theologically, and my analogy fits regardless if you fail to see it or not.
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If you are referring to your “Nig…” comparison, I have already shown that your comparison is completely invalid, whether you see it or not.

This whole thread is getting repetitive and I don’t think I will be participating in it anymore, unless i change my mind or see something worth responding to.

I suggest that the interested readers of this thread read all my posts (on this thread) carefully in addition to all of r.gonzales’ posts (on this thread) carefully and judge for yourselves if Islam treats women badly, most especially these posts (which are by me): post #47 and post #48, and second most especially post #84 and post #89)

Like you said r.gonzales, may God give you and i guidance to that which He loves and is pleased with.
 
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TheRaiders:
My Struggle,
You are an exfoliant (I looked on your profile)? What is that?
Puting women in their place has nothing to do with not respecting their opinion. That said, a child does not have the right to go out on the town, especialy women. They get taken advantage of, and they make mistakes that can affect the rest of their lives. They will get over the anger of not getting to go out. I read about a Mexican girl who had to bring her little brother along when she went on dates. She didn’t like it but she respected it.
They do have a place, and that is with children as Carlos said. Is this the kind of Christian oppression of women you are talking about Liberal and others? If so, then your analogy is complely bogus, and shouldn’t even be discussed further because your bias is blinding you.
This is not oppression it is how Carlos wants his family structured. You have no right to tell him that is opression. His marriage will likely work, because both he and his wife knew their roles going into it, and were happy with it. It is only* liberated * white america and Europe that have no clue what their roles are, and what marriage is even all about that are having all the problems. My mom job shares. That is, she holds a high position as an accountant, but splits the paychecks and the time 50-50. She and her work partner got to work, and raise their families properly. You never hear about this option. Why? Because the feminist movement has gone so far from the average woman in our country.
You see, there has to be a compromise somewhere or we are commiting social suicide.
My neighbor’s mom went the other route. She’s an ultra powerful executive for the government. She’s got respect, power, money. She’s got it all. But her marriage went down the drains. Her kids has no spiritual side, and are pretty selfish.
Men have a place with children too, but to everything there is a time. A man’s time with his children is after a long-day’s work.
If a woman does not want to have more than a few children, then it is the man’s responsibility to respect that, and have sex accordingly. Natural family planning does work. So does abstinence.
If she doesn’t want to be pregnant, they need to try and adopt (adoption isn’t always a sure thing, they sometimes refuse parents).
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This is not sensible. We do not want to let our children out, our teenagers daughters, etc. because there are maniacs out there. So your answer is to to jail the daughter and let the maniacs run free. How very Islamic of you.
 
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discipleofJesus:
…
This whole thread is getting repetitive and I don’t think I will be participating in it anymore, unless i change my mind or see something worth responding to.

I suggest that the interested readers of this thread read all my posts (on this thread) carefully in addition to all of r.gonzales’ posts (on this thread) carefully and judge for yourselves if Islam treats women badly, most especially these posts (which are by me): post #47 and post #48, and second most especially post #84 and post #89)
…
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and third most especially post #104

see also post #70 , post #83 both by** inJESUS**

and post #103 by Shockerfan
 
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r.gonzales:
uhh… check theraider’s profile. it says “catholic” under religion, not muslim.
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Yes, your point?
As a Catholic, he can then meditate on the Visitation Mystery. How could Mary visit Elizabeth under his system of caring for his daughter? For surely many maniacs ranged around as well while Mary rode her donkey to Elizabeth’s house.What I am saying is the fact that there are maniacs about is not an excuse for imprisoning one’s daughter in the house.
 
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katewithak:
Yes, your point?
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i was commenting on your specific statement, “how islamic of you,” which from the context of your post looked to be directed towards theRaiders, who is a catholic, not a muslim. add to this the fact that there was nothing exclusively “islamic” about what theRaiders said in his post. he was voice his opinion as a catholic, not as a muslim.

islamic teachings is that the wife should ask for her husband’s permission to leave the house, however, it is not required for her to have a mature male relative escort her unless there is a fear of some danger she may encounter. there is a lot of theological discussion regarding the issue of women travelling without mahram men (mahram meaning men she is forbidden from marrying, such as father, brothers, paternal/maternal uncles, sons, grandfathers) accompanying her, and the most correct position regarding it is that there is no specified distance restriction for this allowance of travelling without a mahram, there is however a restriction with respect to time—and that is any journey exceeding a day’s length. other than that she should be free to travel alone so long as there is no fear of any danger she may encounter.

prophet muhammad forbade husbands from preventing their women from going out to the mosques and from preventing them from visiting their families. so to suggest that “jailing” muslim women in their homes is something islamic, is a gross error and slander against the religion.
 
This thread is now closed. Thank you to all who have participated.

Peace-

Rachel
 
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