The Rosary is NOT the Way

[fix]

The rosary does hold a special place.

It would be impossible to name all the many Saints who discovered in the Rosary a genuine path to growth in holiness. We need but mention Saint Louis Marie Grignion de Montfort, the author of an excellent work on the Rosary,(12) and, closer to ourselves, Padre Pio of Pietrelcina, whom I recently had the joy of canonizing. As a true apostle of the Rosary, Blessed Bartolo Longo had a special charism. His path to holiness rested on an inspiration heard in the depths of his heart: “Whoever spreads the Rosary is saved!”.(13)

… the most perfect of all devotions is undoubtedly that which conforms, unites and consecrates us most perfectly to Jesus Christ. Now, since Mary is of all creatures the one most conformed to Jesus Christ, it follows that among all devotions that which most consecrates and conforms a soul to our Lord is devotion to Mary, his Holy Mother, and that the more a soul is consecrated to her the more will it be consecrated to Jesus Christ”.(22) Never as in the Rosary do the life of Jesus and that of Mary appear so deeply joined. Mary lives only in Christ and for Christ!

 

[RyanML]

The rosary does hold a special place.

I don’t think anyone is saying that the rosary doesn’t have pride of place in Catholic devotion. But actually sitting with the Scriptures and reading and meditating on the Word and praying the Divine Office hold an equal if not higher priority. In fact I would say the Office is of higher priority than the rosary. Priests and religious are obligated to pray the Office. They are not obligated to pray the rosary.

 

[fix]

I don’t think anyone is saying that the rosary doesn’t have pride of place in Catholic devotion. But actually sitting with the Scriptures and reading and meditating on the Word and praying the Divine Office hold an equal if not higher priority. In fact I would say the Office is of higher priority than the rosary. Priests and religious are obligated to pray the Office. They are not obligated to pray the rosary.

But, is that the real issue? IMO, there is a tendency to minimize the role of Mary and the rosary. I am not sure why that is.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

But, is that the real issue? IMO, there is a tendency to minimize the role of Mary and the rosary. I am not sure why that is.

Maybe they’re Protestants in disguise?

 

[Ceil-1]

Fr. Emmerich Vogt, the 12-step priest, and one of the best, warns
against what he calls “Catholic Voodoo”. I think the OP may be referring to this. It is not the ritual of the prayers that cause their effectiveness, but the time, effort, sincerety and sacrifice entailed.

No doubt appealing to God in our own words would be helpful, but, the graces brought about by the appeals and the meditations, the blessings and praises to the name of Jesus in the Hail Mary prayer, the meditations on what we know is pleasing to the Lord… these are what make the rosary so sweet to the Lord’s ears. I believe he cannot resist a rosary said with love. The trouble is, we put no thought or effort into it. It is rote prayer, something to be muddled through as quickly as possible.

I feel my most blessed when I start my day with the Office, praising God, and continuing throughout the day, not neglecting the rosary either. Extra rosaries, said with love are like a gift to God.

I do think people believe that saying the rosary are like brownie points to be scored up on the board. The more beads, the more points scored. I think that is Catholic Voodoo.

 

[GodsGadfly]

"Maybe they’re Protestants in disguise?’

I’m assuming you’re being facetious, but, just to be safe. . . . .

So, our Eastern Catholic brethren, who have devotions to Mary that predate the Rosary by centuries, and who would prefer to practice their traditional devotions, are “Protestants in disguise”?

Yes, there are many Saints who were greatly devoted to the Rosary. And there have been many more saints who never even said a Rosary.

And, by the way, which Rosary are we talking about?

There’s the “Dominican Rosary,” which has for some reason been given preference over the other forms of the Rosary.

Then there’s the Rosary with the extra five decades as introduced by John Paul II.

Then there’s the seven decade Franciscan Crown.
Then there’s the six decade Bridgettine/Carmelite Rosary (ever notice statues of St. Therese where her rosary has six decades?)

The goal of the spiritual life is growth. Devotions are fantastic. The Rosary is great, but, in the end, it is “just a devotion.”

Yes, there are plenty of documents one can point to to say that the Rosary is the “highest” of private devotions. But, again, liturgy always supersedes private devotion.

The elevation of the Rosary has to do with its being “the Gospel in miniature.” It would seem presupposed that praying the Gospel itself is higher than saying the Rosary.

And no private devotion is ever higher than liturgy. When you pray the Divine Office, even by yourself, you’re actually participating in the Liturgy, praying with every other Catholic who participates in that day’s liturgy around the world, just like at Mass.;

But when you pray the Rosary, even in a group, it’s just your private prayer to God.

This is not about “minimizing” the Rosary, by any means, but putting in its proper place and perspective.

 

[RyanML]

"Maybe they’re Protestants in disguise?’

I’m assuming you’re being facetious, but, just to be safe. . . . .

So, our Eastern Catholic brethren, who have devotions to Mary that predate the Rosary by centuries, and who would prefer to practice their traditional devotions, are “Protestants in disguise”?

Yes, there are many Saints who were greatly devoted to the Rosary. And there have been many more saints who never even said a Rosary.

And, by the way, which Rosary are we talking about?

There’s the “Dominican Rosary,” which has for some reason been given preference over the other forms of the Rosary.

Then there’s the Rosary with the extra five decades as introduced by John Paul II.

Then there’s the seven decade Franciscan Crown.
Then there’s the six decade Bridgettine/Carmelite Rosary (ever notice statues of St. Therese where her rosary has six decades?)

The goal of the spiritual life is growth. Devotions are fantastic. The Rosary is great, but, in the end, it is “just a devotion.”

Yes, there are plenty of documents one can point to to say that the Rosary is the “highest” of private devotions. But, again, liturgy always supersedes private devotion.

The elevation of the Rosary has to do with its being “the Gospel in miniature.” It would seem presupposed that praying the Gospel itself is higher than saying the Rosary.

And no private devotion is ever higher than liturgy. When you pray the Divine Office, even by yourself, you’re actually participating in the Liturgy, praying with every other Catholic who participates in that day’s liturgy around the world, just like at Mass.;

But when you pray the Rosary, even in a group, it’s just your private prayer to God.

This is not about “minimizing” the Rosary, by any means, but putting in its proper place and perspective.

Amen! I couldn’t have said it better!

 

[fix]

Maybe they’re Protestants in disguise?

Yes, or those who think like Protestants.

Why do folks want to minimize Mary’s role in salvation history or the power of the rosary or consecration to her Immaculate heart? I must assume the best. They are mistaken.

 

[RyanML]

Yes, or those who think like Protestants.

Why do folks want to minimize Mary’s role in salvation history or the power of the rosary or consecration to her Immaculate heart? I must assume the best. They are mistaken.

One of the most Marian and ancient religious orders in the Church, the Carmelites, do not require their priests and religious to pray the Rosary. What comes first on the Carmelite agenda? The Divine Office and Meditation. Even for lay people who wear the Scapular, the rule is that they pray the Office of the Blessed Virgin or if they can not pray the Office, they can substitute with the Rosary.

 

[fix]

One of the most Marian and ancient religious orders in the Church, the Carmelites, do not require their priests and religious to pray the Rosary. What comes first on the Carmelite agenda? The Divine Office and Meditation. Even for lay people who wear the Scapular, the rule is that they pray the Office of the Blessed Virgin or if they can not pray the Office, they can substitute with the Rosary.

But, why make it an opposition between these two things? I am simply saying some seem to minimize the power of the rosary and downplay Mary’s special role:

It has always been the habit of Catholics in danger and in troublous times to fly for refuge to Mary, and to seek for peace in her maternal goodness; showing that the Catholic Church has always, and with justice, put all her hope and trust in the Mother of God. And truly the Immaculate Virgin, chosen to be the Mother of God and thereby associated with Him in the work of man’s salvation, has a favour and power with her Son greater than any human or angelic creature has ever obtained, or ever can gain. And, as it is her greatest pleasure to grant her help and comfort to those who seek her, it cannot be doubted that she would deign, and even be anxious, to receive the aspirations of the universal Church.

Since, therefore, it is clearly evident that this form of prayer is particularly pleasing to the Blessed Virgin, and that it is especially suitable as a means of defence for the Church and all Christians, it is in no way wonderful that several others of Our Predecessors have made it their aim to favour and increase its spread by their high recommendations. Thus Urban IV, testified that “every day the Rosary obtained fresh boon for Christianity.” Sixtus IV declared that this method of prayer “redounded to the honour of God and the Blessed Virgin, and was well suited to obviate impending dangers;” Leo X that “it was instituted to oppose pernicious heresiarchs and heresies;” while Julius III called it “the glory of the Church.”…

And you, Venerable Brethren, - the more you have at heart the honour of Mary, and the welfare of human society, the more diligently apply yourselves to nourish the piety of the people towards the great Virgin, and to increase their confidence in her. We believe it to be part of the designs of Providence that, in these times of trial for the Church, the ancient devotion to the august Virgin should live and flourish amid the greatest part of the Christian world. May now the Christian nations, excited by Our exhortations, and inflamed by your appeals, seek the protection of Mary with an ardour growing greater day by day; let them cling more and more to the practice of the Rosary, to that devotion which our ancestors were in the habit of practicing, not only as an ever-ready remedy for their misfortunes, but as a whole badge of Christian piety…

Given in Rome, at St. Peter’s, the 1st of September, 1883, in the sixth year of Our Pontificate.
LEO XIII

 

[RyanML]

But, why make it an opposition between these two things? I am simply saying some seem to minimize the power of the rosary and downplay Mary’s special role:

Given in Rome, at St. Peter’s, the 1st of September, 1883, in the sixth year of Our Pontificate.
LEO XIII

There should be no opposition. But in this case, the end is much more important than the means, and the end is union with God. Some may come to that union with God through the Rosary, and many have, but others may not, and that’s perfectly alright. If a Catholic prefers the Office and Lectio over the Rosary, that doesn’t make them less of a Catholic. If you prefer the Rosary and the Chaplet of Divine Mercy over the Office, that’s great. If you find your intimacy with the Lord through perpetual novenas to the Saints then more power to ya. The question we should be asking is not “what prayers do you say?” but rather “do your prayers bring you into deeper intimacy with God”?

 

[Leonius]

I promise you, many have entered heaven without ever reciting the Rosary.

Perhaps but have any entered heaven without devotion to Mary? Truth is your promise is nonsense because you have no idea.

“All the saints have a great devotion to Our Lady: no grace comes from Heaven without passing through her hands. We cannot go into a house without speaking to the door-keeper. Well, the Holy Virgin is the doorkeeper of Heaven.” (John Mary Vianney)

“Every grace which is communicated has a three-fold origin: it flows from God to Christ, from Christ to the Virgin, and from the Virgin to us.” (Pope Leo XIII)

“The Lord has placed in Mary the plenitude of all good so that, if any hope of grace or salvation is in us, we know that we derive it all from Mary.” (St. Bernard)

“To reach the Eternal Father, we must go to Jesus, our Mediator of Redemption. To go to Jesus, we must go to Mary, our Mediatrix of Intercession.” (St. Louis Marie de Montfort)

“He who angers His Mother is cursed by God.” (Ecclesiasticus 3:18) (You think criticising people for praying the rosary and promoting it is not making her angry?)

He who neglects the service of the Blessed Virgin will die in his sins. He who does not invoke thee, O Lady, will never get to Heaven. Not only will those from whom Mary turns her countenance not be saved, but there will be no hope of their salvation. No one can be saved without the protection of the Blessed Virgin Mary. (St. Bonaventure)

To desire grace without recourse to the Virgin Mother is to desire to fly without wings. (Pope Pius XII)

Your heart will either sing the divine canticles of Our Lady, or echo the cursed and unhappy songs of worldlings here in dishonor to God and vibrate eternally with the blasphemies and horrid dirges of the damned in Hell! (St. John Eudes)

 

[Leonius]

John 14:6

What I fear most is a dangerous type of cultism, which stipulates that certain actions, apart from the grace of God, lead one to heaven. This flies in the face of Christianity and it is an attitude and perception of Catholicism which we must fight against vigorously.

All Catholics know that Mary is the conduit of GODS grace, you sound like a protestant with this nonsense, perhaps you should wait until your own spiritual life improves before you try and make yourself a teacher of others.

 

[Leonius]

Exactly!

I’m talking more about people who recite the Rosary without an eye to deeper conversation with God, as if the words themselves were liberating. This is not prayer but merely the repetition of a pattern of words.

And you can tell if peole are doing this or not? You can red hearts?

Personally, I find the Our Father to be a wonderful “teaching” prayer. It is a rich prayer which calls us to unite ourselves with Christ and humbly put ourselves in the position of Christ, as adopted sons and daughters of God.

The Our Father is part of the Rosary.

Again, the Rosary is wonderful. Let’s just keep it in perspective.

Do you know what tthe right persepctive is? It doesn’t sound like it to me.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Fr. Emmerich Vogt, the 12-step priest, and one of the best, warns
against what he calls “Catholic Voodoo”. I think the OP may be referring to this. It is not the ritual of the prayers that cause their effectiveness, but the time, effort, sincerety and sacrifice entailed.

No doubt appealing to God in our own words would be helpful, but, the graces brought about by the appeals and the meditations, the blessings and praises to the name of Jesus in the Hail Mary prayer, the meditations on what we know is pleasing to the Lord… these are what make the rosary so sweet to the Lord’s ears. I believe he cannot resist a rosary said with love. The trouble is, we put no thought or effort into it. It is rote prayer, something to be muddled through as quickly as possible.

I feel my most blessed when I start my day with the Office, praising God, and continuing throughout the day, not neglecting the rosary either. Extra rosaries, said with love are like a gift to God.

I do think people believe that saying the rosary are like brownie points to be scored up on the board. The more beads, the more points scored. I think that is Catholic Voodoo.

Again, I congratulate your ability to read minds. Now if you wouldn’t mind PM-ing me what stocks to buy?

Come on—you don’t know the state of people’s minds when they pray!

 

[Leonius]

You completely disregarded the poster’s first sentence of the paragraph you are taking exception to. He said:

**I’m talking more about people who recite the Rosary without an eye to deeper conversation with God, as if the words themselves were liberating. **This is not prayer but merely the repetition of a pattern of words.

What he is doing is serving the devil by trying to discourage people from praying the Rosary, he is working AGAINST Our Lady and speaking of the Holy Rosary as if it is just another prayer, which is is not!

Would you prefer those people who you are so quick to condemn to not pray at all?

Do you think it would be better to not pray the rosary at all than to pray it bad? We all started out bad its only through practice that you get better, this thread will do nothing other than convince such poor souls, beginners in the spiritual life to give up in despair, when if thye had just persevered they would have come to the deeper mysteries of mental prayer contained in the Holy Rosary in time.

Perseverance in prayer is the very foundation of the spiritual life, and this thread undermines those foundations.

 

[ac_claire]

But, is that the real issue? IMO, there is a tendency to minimize the role of Mary and the rosary. I am not sure why that is.

Perhaps because the Blessed Mother (and the Rosary) is the single most hated part of the Catholic faith for some Protestants? And they bash and dishonor her and try to start debates about her all the time. Anyone who’s spent even a few minutes on a protestant forum can attest to this. And as an amateur online apologist I can sympathize with the frustration this can bring. You know that these protestants won’t accept most of the Marian doctrines without accepting first the teaching authority of the Church. So it’s tempting to gloss over the truth about our Blessed Mother and her role in the Church to make it more palatable to the *sola scriptura *heretics.

Instead of sticking up for the Catholic faith, they compromise it. Make the Faith softer, more user-friendly, more…protestant.

The worst thing is this is frequently done in the name of evangelization. To these misguided Catholics I can only say, again- make a leap of faith. Trust the Church. The truth is you won’t win people to the Church by distorting what the Church is, or by minimizing the role of Our Blessed Mother. God seldom blesses a compromise. If you compromise any aspect of the Catholic Faith, it betrays a weakness in your own faith. Perhaps you need to get your own spiritual house in order before you go out trying to evangelize or teach or give advice to others.

 

[Leonius]

It’s interesting that the majority of the people who sympathise with the OP admit that they do not say the Rosary, perhaps you would all like to to try it again, get a good guide to the Rosary and then try saying ot every day for a month. Then perhaps you might understand it a bit better, just a thought, I really think you are missing out, you can add it to your other devotions by all means.

 

[Mels]

It’s interesting that the majority of the people who sympathise with the OP admit that they do not say the Rosary, perhaps you would all like to to try it again, get a good guide to the Rosary and then try saying ot every day for a month. Then perhaps you might understand it a bit better, just a thought, I really think you are missing out, you can add it to your other devotions by all means.

I would have to agree; when I started praying the Rosary, my life changed so much for the better. When I began practicing other Marian devotions as well, such as wearing a scapular, Miraculous Medal, and praying the Little Office, I underwent a drastic change. Mary brings you closer to God - praying the Rosary is a good place to start. He who has Mary for a Mother has God for a Father. I love her!

It is true what andiclare said as well; there is a tendency to want to downplay her attributes, but this is not worthy of Mary. Be not afraid to call her your Mother and call her blessed, for truly, she is, and the Scripture and the Church supports this as Truth. Jesus served her for 30 years of His life at the least; we all must wonder at the marvels of His life that only she had witnessed in those hidden years - what beautiful knowledge of our Lord she must have! We should all desire to be closer to Mary, for she is the closest to God Himself.

 

[Go_Irish]

When I have a “problem” with the Rosary- it is when I do not say it well- with an empty heart and distracted mind- mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!

And at that moment, I realize how ungrateful I am…

I was one of those whom Zahmir referred to- one of those souls who doubted everything- was deep in mortal sin and mocked Christ and His Church- and who- from time to time- had a well meaning family member or friend who would suggest the Rosary- or even give me a little prayer card on the Rosary- or hand me one of those little plastic rosaries… I would smirk, make a smart remark and forget about it.

But then my future mother in law had a massive stroke and as I stood next to her bed in the ICU I felt totally helpless- I could only whisper out an Our Father and a Hail Mary- it was all that was left of the faith of my birth- my life.

I would say a couple of those prayers everyday for my mother in law and gradually I picked up the Rosary-

Since that moment I have never let go of Our Mother’s hand.

All of you have made valuable statements about prayer- but let us never forget to maintain a supernatural outlook in all of this. Miracles happen everyday and Our Mother- whether it be through the Holy Rosary- or through those prayers She constantly offers on our behalf (whether we know it or not) is constantly bringing about the conversions of countless souls.

God love you all!