The Rosary - What is Not Understood?

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Nicea325 said:
The ones which contradicted God. Are you implying CC/EO Traditions are in conflict with God?
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They are in conflict with each other. I don’t know who I should go to, and how could a simple mind like mine know for sure?
 
dronald said:
You know these were Pharisees right? They honestly thought their traditions were true to God’s nature.

How do we judge if a tradition is man made apart from Scripture?
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Taken from a CAF document catholic.com/tracts/scripture-and-tradition

I think it explains it well enough

What is Tradition?

In this discussion it is important to keep in mind what the Catholic Church means by tradition. The term does not refer to legends or mythological accounts, nor does it encompass transitory customs or practices which may change, as circumstances warrant, such as styles of priestly dress, particular forms of devotion to saints, or even liturgical rubrics. Sacred or apostolic tradition consists of the teachings that the apostles passed on orally through their preaching. These teachings largely (perhaps entirely) overlap with those contained in Scripture, but the mode of their transmission is different.

They have been handed down and entrusted to the Church (which means to its official teachers, the bishops in union with the pope). It is necessary that Christians believe in and follow this tradition as well as the Bible (Luke 10:16). The truth of the faith has been given primarily to the leaders of the Church (Eph. 3:5), who, with Christ, form the foundation of the Church (Eph. 2:20). The Church has been guided by the Holy Spirit, who protects this teaching from corruption (John 14:25-26, 16:13).
 
pocohombre said:
Then why do you separarte His words from the bible ?
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We dont

As an explination and taken from CAF

The word of God Is the relationship between Tradition and Scripture, Hence there exists a close connection and communication between Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. For both of them, flowing from the same divine wellspring, in a certain way merge into a unity and tend toward the same end.
Sacred Scripture is the word of God inasmuch as it is consigned to writing under the inspiration of the divine Spirit. To the successors of the apostles, Sacred Tradition hands on in its full purity God’s word, which was entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit.
 
Nicea325 said:
Good enough for Jesus? Jesus IS the words of the Bible who Incarnated so you cannot separate Him from His own Words. Again,Jesus never taught: The Bible is the final authority. Chapter and verse where He clearly teaches this belief?

Exactly! So what gives you the idea or belief Jesus did not assign authority to His mystical body (Eph 1:22-23) the church? The Church is an extension of His Incarnation. Christ or the Apostles…again,never once taught or said **written scripture alone **is the final authority…no where!
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'Final authority .? How about correct authority ? For instance the church is the pillar of truth , and does not say she is the pillar of authority, yet… She has Godly authority only to the degree that she is correct, that she is acting in truth. I don’t want final authority .I would prefer to have correct ,Godly authority. Those weilding authority given by God will be judged by how they carried out His instructions, by how faithful they were to his Word, written or otherwise. I believe for the most of her history the CC has tried to do so"…( from another thread where I posted this)…
 
pocohombre said:
'Final authority .? How about correct authority ? For instance the church is the pillar of truth , and does not say she is the pillar of authority, yet… She has Godly authority only to the degree that she is correct, that she is acting in truth. I don’t want final authority .I would prefer to have correct ,Godly authority. Those weilding authority given by God will be judged by how they carried out His instructions, by how faithful they were to his Word, written or otherwise. I believe for the most of her history the CC has tried to do so"…( from another thread where I posted this)…
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I thought Jesus Christ established an “AUTHORITATIVE CHURCH” Mt 28:18-20 - Jesus delegates all power to Apostles. Jn 20:23 - power to forgive sin. 1Cor 11:23-24 - power to offer sacrifice (Eucharist). Lk 10:16 - power to speak with Christ’s voice. Mt 18:17 - power to discipline. Mt 18:18 - power to legislate.
 
pocohombre said:
Then why don’t you treat written word more authoritatively, and why don’t you let Him speak for himself more often ?
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And what makes you believe the CC does not consider the Word of God as authortative? It is read everyday at every Mass. Problem is that many Protestants somehow believe the Bible is above God’s Church. The Church,Scripture and Sacred Tradition were all practiced in the early church.

It is not logical for the very church which protected and defend the Holy Writ over the centuries and yet lowers it?

False premise my friend.
 
Nicea325 said:
And what makes you believe the CC does not consider the Word of God as authortative? It is read everyday at every Mass. Problem is that many Protestants somehow believe the Bible is above God’s Church. The Church,Scripture and Sacred Tradition were all practiced in the early church.

It is not logical for the very church which protected and defend the Holy Writ over the centuries and yet lowers it?

False premise my friend.
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Yes you treat authoritatively. My question was why not more ?
 
pocohombre said:
Yes you treat authoritatively. My question was why not more ?
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Because the canonized Bible itself was not founded by Christ,but His Church…that is why. Did not Jesus found His Church with authority? Or did He come to teach us all the Bible is to be the highest authority?

My friend you cannot separate the Word of God (Oral or Written) apart from His Church. Jesus promised to guide His Church via the Holy Spirit. This whole notion the Bible is king is just plain false and history clearly debunks such a premise.
 
dronald said:
Sure, now how can I be certain which one to trust apart from my interpretation of Scripture and prayer?
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So you will chose neither one?

Don’t forget, there is also history to look at. 😉 I think you are way more intelligent than just relying on personal interpretation of Scripture and prayer.

Peace!!!
 
Kliska said:
John 13: 34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 “By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Have a good day y’all, I’ll be praying for you, and am always happy to be prayed for.
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God bless klista
 
pocohombre said:
Then why don’t you treat written word more authoritatively, and why don’t you let Him speak for himself more often ?
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From one of my favorite amateur apologists on the CAFs, guanophore:
T’hat is why the effort to substitute the authority appointed by Christ with the Holy Writings has proven a dismal failure, creating never ending splinterings in the Body.
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It is Jesus who validates the Church through the HS
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dronald said:
I’m not being offensive, I’m saying that the argument that Protestant’s don’t have a trustworthy authority is equal to the Catholic dilemma.
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What dilemma?

I can only speak for myself on what I think your saying.
Once I became aware of the untrustworthy authority in Protestant churches, then yes you see two churches that were there from the beginning.
Then you see the theology almost identical. So the theology, in my opinion , must be right.
So the question is Pope or no Pope?

For me, the reality is, God chose it for me. I left the decision of which church to join and he clearly showed my it was the Catholic church. Much to my surprise.
But what convinced me that Catholicism is right over EO is the Primacy of Peter. Matthew 16:18-19

And the early church fathers, in my opinion, clearly show the Bishop of Rome as in charge even over doctrine

If it’s good enough for them it’s good enough for me. If Jesus wants to put Peter in charge who am I to question him.

So in short. When it comes to EO over CC I believe that scripture and Tradition clearly say Pope
 
dronald said:
Based on my readings, the Orthodox do not permit Roman Catholics to partake in their communion. Although I could also be wrong.
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You are quite correct. Orthodox do not permit Catholics to receive communion (although some Orthodox might make “exceptions”, just as some Catholics might make “exceptions” to our rules concerning intercommunion with protestants).
 
batman1973 said:
Is it just me, or does this thread seem a bit derailed?
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Speaking of derailed, wasn’t last months train wreck horrible…oh! and my mother-in-law’s fruit cake for the holiday season - now that’s horrible. So what are yall eating for the holidays? 😃
 
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