R
RandomAlias
Guest
Huh?
What’s this about a royal wedding?
- Status
Huh?
What’s this about a royal wedding?
T
TheLittleLady
Guest
It is a fashion that was begun by Queen Victoria.
S
SusanneT
Guest
It is but ask most people and they don’t know that but do assume that it traditionally represents purity.
B
Bruised_Reed
Guest
And people will continue to assume that if that notion continues to be suggested.
Since it was after 1840 that white dresses became popular, the symbolism of the color is imposed on the dress. Same with the veil.
A white dress has never been a tradition in the Church, something for which I’m thankful because the idea that Catholics would require a bride to indicate her physical status to the public is pretty gross. I wonder why people don’t expect this of the groom.
Since it was after 1840 that white dresses became popular, the symbolism of the color is imposed on the dress. Same with the veil.
A white dress has never been a tradition in the Church, something for which I’m thankful because the idea that Catholics would require a bride to indicate her physical status to the public is pretty gross. I wonder why people don’t expect this of the groom.
R
Rhubarb
Guest
So a couple gets married, wants to start a life together.
And there’s a hundred some-odd posts about the bride’s virginity.
So gossip is the name of the game these days?
And there’s a hundred some-odd posts about the bride’s virginity.
So gossip is the name of the game these days?
Yes. And I understand that a white dress and a veil for a second marriage can shock some people, mostly that we can marry just once time in the Catholic Church. Even if the marriage that we speak is not a Catholic one.
For the majority of the respondants of this thread, a white dress mean nothing and has no symbolism except wedding.
But a look at history:
First, the white dress is a tradition that come from Antiquity. The roman women wore one, with a crown of flower of orange tree. Even if the white was linked to others significations than the virginity.
Then, for along time in occidental History, the dresses were of other colors than white. It was not even special dresses. It depends of the wealth of the bride’s family.
White dresses were used in aristocry in the XVIth century.
White dresses came back in since the middle of XIXth century, used by Queen Victoria, for others reasons than this symbolism.
Since, white dresses were worn by Catholics women in their wedding day. If we take the context of France, it was very encouraged by Church as a symbolism of virginity and in a context of tense relation with the Republic and especially the mandate civil marriage.
Since, there is a link in many people’s mind, between white dress and purity and virginity. At least in the olders generations, especially on Catholics until today.
Thoses are some exemple:
In the 1960’s this question was yet taken seriously. An old and well-educated priest of our parish testify of what was done at this time. If it is obvious that the fiancés had slept together, all they had was a “little marriage” in a side chapel of the church, with- of course - no white dress.
I have never knew in my entourage some second wedding, following a divorce, of practicing Catholics, either they are just civil or sacramental too, were the bride wore a white dress.
For exemple, a divorced and cohabiting woman who prepared her wedding with us at church, answered when the priest ask the question of the dress she will wear, that of course no, she will not wear a white dress, she will be ridicule. She will just take ordinary clothes.
To me, as I can see, people do not linked overtly virginity with a white dress for today weddings, because, I think that perhaps 95 or more % of brides, even at Church wedding were not virgins anymore. But to some people, it is shoking if the bride is pregnant+ in a white wedding dress or if it is a second wedding.
I have question myself a lot, before I took a decision, of the symbolism of the dress and the image I will given.
My father had take also the decision himself : I mother should not wear dress, but ordinary clothes.
But I think a white dress make a lot of people dream and and even ask themselves secretly the question.
For the majority of the respondants of this thread, a white dress mean nothing and has no symbolism except wedding.
But a look at history:
First, the white dress is a tradition that come from Antiquity. The roman women wore one, with a crown of flower of orange tree. Even if the white was linked to others significations than the virginity.
Then, for along time in occidental History, the dresses were of other colors than white. It was not even special dresses. It depends of the wealth of the bride’s family.
White dresses were used in aristocry in the XVIth century.
White dresses came back in since the middle of XIXth century, used by Queen Victoria, for others reasons than this symbolism.
Since, white dresses were worn by Catholics women in their wedding day. If we take the context of France, it was very encouraged by Church as a symbolism of virginity and in a context of tense relation with the Republic and especially the mandate civil marriage.
Since, there is a link in many people’s mind, between white dress and purity and virginity. At least in the olders generations, especially on Catholics until today.
Thoses are some exemple:
In the 1960’s this question was yet taken seriously. An old and well-educated priest of our parish testify of what was done at this time. If it is obvious that the fiancés had slept together, all they had was a “little marriage” in a side chapel of the church, with- of course - no white dress.
I have never knew in my entourage some second wedding, following a divorce, of practicing Catholics, either they are just civil or sacramental too, were the bride wore a white dress.
For exemple, a divorced and cohabiting woman who prepared her wedding with us at church, answered when the priest ask the question of the dress she will wear, that of course no, she will not wear a white dress, she will be ridicule. She will just take ordinary clothes.
To me, as I can see, people do not linked overtly virginity with a white dress for today weddings, because, I think that perhaps 95 or more % of brides, even at Church wedding were not virgins anymore. But to some people, it is shoking if the bride is pregnant+ in a white wedding dress or if it is a second wedding.
I have question myself a lot, before I took a decision, of the symbolism of the dress and the image I will given.
My father had take also the decision himself : I mother should not wear dress, but ordinary clothes.
But I think a white dress make a lot of people dream and and even ask themselves secretly the question.
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S
SnowRose
Guest
What about widows?
They can be presumed non-virgins, and not in a scandalous way. What colour would be proper for her?
They can be presumed non-virgins, and not in a scandalous way. What colour would be proper for her?
Traditionnally widows do not married in white. I have never seen myself a widow how got married in a white dress. They can wear beautiful colored dresses or just ordinary clothes.
Historically, I think a lot of married themselves in black. Which is a color not just used by widows.
Historically, I think a lot of married themselves in black. Which is a color not just used by widows.
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B
Bruised_Reed
Guest
A friend of mine who was widowed wore white when she married again. It was 20 years after the death of her first husband and I don’t think anyone there had a problem with it. If nothing else, her husband deserved to see his bride in a white dress.
They can wear whatever they want. The vows are “until death do us part.” Why should a bride have to remind everyone by the color of her dress that she was widowed. Someone in the past made up all of these social traditions and they have very little impact on day-to-day life. There is etiquette that eases social interaction and levels the playing field and other that isn’t particularly useful; the color of a brides dress signals either a very private status or one that is in the past and discussion of either would tend toward gossip.
It’s interesting that a groom 's suit or tux isn’t color coded to indicate his virginity or if he’s been married before and that some of the traditions come from some unfortunate practices e.g., the veil to hide the bride’s face in case the groom who’s never seen her, bolt’s disgracing her family. Or the superstitious tradition of not seeing the bride before the wedding “because it’s bad luck”; again, that was to ensure that the groom wouldn’t sneak a peek of the bride and bolt if she was unfortunate looking. All these traditions serve to do is remind us that women and girls were not valued as much as men and that what value they had was diminished by her virginity or lack thereof. Gross. Virginity, chastity, purity are virtues before God and the emphasis should remain there. Again, I’m grateful that these are not Catholic traditions.
Lastly, Meghan married a descendant of Queen Victoria. If anyone gets to wear white to her wedding it would be her. I’m sure that Queen Elizabeth said it was okay and if Lizzy is okay with it then I’m not sure why anyone else would have anything to say about it.
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We had a different experience.
I will just remind two things:
I will just remind two things:
- the marital status, such as widow, is not a private one. It’s a very public one, as marriage is a public state of life.
- I agree with you, with the color indication for a woman versus a man, but there is no need to search far to find the reason: as it is the woman who bear children, thoses questions have a more social implication.
J
JulianN
Guest
But the color doesn’t mean what you think it means. So there is no problem with a widow or a divorced person who is free to marry wearing white on their wedding day.
It’s not in poor taste, scandalous or any other negative thing.
It’s not in poor taste, scandalous or any other negative thing.
B
Bruised_Reed
Guest
Yes. This part
was respective to wearing white or an alternative color depending on physical virginity, while
was respective to widowhood. In hindsight I can see it would also apply to physical virginity as well. Sorry that I didn’t make that more clear.
And I find this unjust and used to control and abuse women and their children. Henry VIII, anyone?
If you have read my first post you cannot said that I know nothing on the topic.
Please, I live also not in the same part in the world as you, and you cannot said that what I observed is incorrect.
Perhaps there is no signification seen when you live for evrybody, but you just cannot said that it is the case evrywhere.
Please, I live also not in the same part in the world as you, and you cannot said that what I observed is incorrect.
Perhaps there is no signification seen when you live for evrybody, but you just cannot said that it is the case evrywhere.
B
Bruised_Reed
Guest
Yes, attitudes and beliefs can change. The “nature” is certain men’s fragile masculinity and a callousness toward children.
Again, (fashion) constraints imposed by a few people. Rich, white people. Pffft. Thankfully, that’s changing. But certain people keep telling others, “you can’t do this, you can’t wear that” so the change comes slowly.
Yay! Something I agree with, nor can I add to it. Bless.
J
JulianN
Guest
Yes, but this is a situation in the UK, where the concept of the white wedding dress started with Queen Victoria. It has no significance except wealth and tradition. Nothing to do with virginity.
J
JulianN
Guest
But it wasn’t a Catholic symbol either…
Yes. In catholic liturgy, white is the symbol to death and the born again in Christ. (If i recalled well). So it is used in Baptism robes, Communion robes, that as been designed bu the past very similar to wedding dress. Even some sisters took their vows in a weddings dress, because their marry Christ.
But the common people do not know that, and see them as innocence or purity.
And white dress to the Church wedding, had been used as a militant symbol, at least in some part of the world. And if the woman is pregnant or widow= no white dress and veil. (or if, it can brings gossip).
I know that US are a very liberal place, but do you seen, as a common practice, 50 or 60 years old widows who marry in Church in a white dress and a veil?
But the common people do not know that, and see them as innocence or purity.
And white dress to the Church wedding, had been used as a militant symbol, at least in some part of the world. And if the woman is pregnant or widow= no white dress and veil. (or if, it can brings gossip).
I know that US are a very liberal place, but do you seen, as a common practice, 50 or 60 years old widows who marry in Church in a white dress and a veil?
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nature is not injust, it is a design of the Creator.
I do not endorse, gender studies revisionism that see History as a long oppression of men on the women (and children) and then a process of battle of the sex and emancipation.
There was a lot that was made to protect women in their motherhood and children filiation.
Even if it goes to the absurdity (one exemple found in XVIIth baptismal record, by my husband: a child of a widow baptisted as_legitimate_ … one year after his father’s death! Of course, at this time, their is incertainty in the length of a pregnancy, and a child was not baptised always the same day as his birth… but a three mouths gaps, at least was very unlikely).
A a beautifull wedding dress is not the sign of men’s oppression or impotence. Even if widow might have had a different dress code.
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