The Russiain Orthodox Church and Fatima

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Is Fatima really so offensive to the Orthodox? Indeed, Russia may have been Orthodox from the start of the USSR to its downfall but I know that it was persecuted. In this sense, Russia was converted in the sense that Communism has collapsed and Faith once again restored to Russia. I don’t think it was ever meant to say that Russia must be converted through the Catholic Church only. I always thought it was more likely for the revival of faith to occur through its national religion: Orthodoxy.
 
SteveVH said:
We don’t view the Orthodox, apparently, as the Orthodox view us. Yes, we prayed for the Russian Orthodox Church in Russia, and for an end to oppression of Christianity in general.

Do you believe that we believe that Mary asked us to pray for the conversion of the Russian Orthodox? If that were the case then she should have asked us to pray for the conversion of the Greek Orthodox and all other Orthodox Churches as well, yes?

While we may pray for healing from the wounds to unity between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, we do not pray for your conversion. We consider you the second lung, remember? Even if you do not. 🙂

Peace.

Steve
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AMEN, thank you and God Bless, Memaw
 
SteveVH said:
Do you believe that we believe that Mary asked us to pray for the conversion of the Russian Orthodox? If that were the case then she should have asked us to pray for the conversion of the Greek Orthodox and all other Orthodox Churches as well, yes?
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No, not at all. Keep in mind that Greece never experienced the communist takeover that would later open conversion opportunity for the Roman Catholic Church. You can’t really compare the two countries because of this.
While we may pray for healing from the wounds to unity between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, we do not pray for your conversion. We consider you the second lung, remember? Even if you do not. 🙂
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Actually, the second lung refers to the Eastern Catholic Churches, or so I have heard. I don’t see how Roman Catholics can remain dogmatically consistent and refer to Orthodoxy as the second lung of the Church when, in their view, we deny quite a few central Catholic teachings (Immaculate Conception, Purgatory, Papal Supremacy and Infallibility). I actually think it would be respectable and refreshing if Roman Catholics took a more hard-lined position rather that overlooking serious doctrinal differences.
 
Seraphim73 said:
Most of the people on this board are from Western countries. We for the most part don’t have the foggiest idea what it’s like to suffer for Christ. The worst we have to deal with is maybe skipping a hamburger on Friday. Would we really cling to Him if our priests were being pulled out of the parish during the liturgy and shot dead or if our family members were being sent to Siberia to die in the gulags or if we watched large groups of Christians being forced to dig their own mass grave before they were all executed? Think again about what I said earlier. There were more Christians killed by the communist in the Soviet Union than in the entire history of Christianity combined. So step back and try to put yourselves in their shoes before you make judgments about so called chips on the shoulder or trouble making.
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As much a I pray that God bless those martyrs for dying for the Christian faith, that stat is highly suspicious to say the least…
 
Many Catholics regard the Fatima story with a degree of skepticism.

It falls under the rubric of “private revelation”, which means Catholics are free to take it or leave it.

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I remember after the fall of communism how so many Orthodox brought back out their icons and other venerations they had kept hidden during the persecution.

I also remember reading about children who turned their parents in for having a bible, and then having the children paraded down the street for being heroes while onlookers stared at them with contempt.
 
And to be honest and as I’m sure you know the Protestants were and still are way, WAY worse than the Catholics could ever think about being. They are still writing manuals and sending so called missionaries to convert the Orthodox. It wasn’t but about four or five years ago that the Southern Baptist held a conference and seminar for missionaries to former Soviet bloc countries on how to witness to the Orthodox.
 
Wandile said:
As much a I pray that God bless those martyrs for dying for the Christian faith, that stat is highly suspicious to say the least…
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I don’t know. It makes sense to me when you see the numbers. I’ve seen estimates anywhere from 12 to 25 million Christians were killed. If you think back to the other serious persecutions in the 1st to 4th centuries and during the Muslim conquests the actual numbers couldn’t have been anywhere near that. World population in the 1st through 4th centuries never topped 60 million. When Constantinople fell to the Turks it’s population was around 75,000. Remember the Muslims for the most part didn’t kill Christians after the initial conquest and the vast majority of Christians lived in the Christian west where there was no persecutions.
 
Yes, a lot of them do have true faith and are merely following what they have been told about the Orthodox back at their home churches (the same wrt to Catholics). I honestly wish that all churches could come to a mutual agreement not to attempt to convert members of other churches, even those they seriously disagree with (by convert, I mean treating the other Christian as a non-Christian. I wouldn’t consider persuading another Christian to adopt their beliefs as an attempt to convert).
 
I was not insinuating communist russia reflected on current russian society - I am just seeking answers about fatima. Please don’t twist my posts into saying something they don’t.
 
truthseeker32 said:
No, not at all. Keep in mind that Greece never experienced the communist takeover that would later open conversion opportunity for the Roman Catholic Church. You can’t really compare the two countries because of this.
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But if we were praying for the conversion of the Russian Orthodox it would be because of your religious beliefs, not because you experienced the nightmare of communist Russia. Christians are oppressed all over the world. We don’t pray for the conversion of Christians in China. We don’t pray for the conversion of Christians in north Africa and the Middle East. We pray for an end to the oppression they are experiencing. This is exactly why we were praying for you. So my point remains. If we were praying for the conversion of the Russian Orthodox then we would also have to pray for the conversion of all other Orthodox Christians because you share the same doctrines. That is simply not what we are doing.
truthseeker32 said:
Actually, the second lung refers to the Eastern Catholic Churches, or so I have heard.
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You heard wrong. When St. Pope John Paul, II sent a greeting to the Ecumenical Patriarch in 1991 he referred to the Catholic and Orthodox Churches as two lungs in one body. This is not the only time he made this analogy when speaking of Catholic and Orthodox.
truthseeker32 said:
I don’t see how Roman Catholics can remain dogmatically consistent and refer to Orthodoxy as the second lung of the Church when, in their view, we deny quite a few central Catholic teachings (Immaculate Conception, Purgatory, Papal Supremacy and Infallibility). I actually think it would be respectable and refreshing if Roman Catholics took a more hard-lined position rather that overlooking serious doctrinal differences.
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Are you not at all interested in healing the wounds of Christ’s Church? The differences between us are not as stark as you make them out to be. Regardless, we should both be working toward unity, not holding our ground with a “more hard-lined position”. I am not at all advocating a “watering down” of the truth. I am talking about finding common ground which is plentiful between Catholic and Orthodox traditions.

Yeah, I know, I said I was going to bow out but I couldn’t let your post stand unanswered.

Peace.

Steve
 
True. The cover of that magazine gives me the same warm feeling I get when looking at a Watchtower tract. Very strange depiction. The point is, however, that it does not give a true impression of the intent of Catholics praying for the conversion of Russia.
 
Seraphim73 said:
If Italy had spent decades under communist oppression and had millions upon millions of Catholics in the country martyred you might be a little defensive too. Check out this magazine cover from the early 90’s. It’s from an issue of 30 Days magazine, a Catholic publication.

http://orthodoxinfo.com/images/readyset.jpg

If you can’t make out the cover it’s a picture of the pope leading an army of priests and religious to realize their dream, to “conquer Holy Mother Russia”! And that’s exactly how the Orthodox felt when Catholic and Protestant missionaries flooded the country after the fall of communism. So whether you’re “out to get” us or not that’s certainly the impression the Russians got and it persists to this day and talk of Fatima and the conversion of Russia doesn’t help that impression. 👍
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+1

Essentially it’s taking our Catholic sentiments, e.g. love for the pope, and trying to twist them against the Orthodox.

I’m glad to say that I’ve not yet seen an Orthodox magazine article that seeks to “conquer” us. :cool:
 
Seraphim73 said:
And to be honest and as I’m sure you know the Protestants were and still are way, WAY worse…
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no one could imagine what was to happen in russia. there were worse people, but we could, well,expect…
 
Peter_J said:
+1

Essentially it’s taking our Catholic sentiments, e.g. love for the pope, and trying to twist them against the Orthodox.

I’m glad to say that I’ve not yet seen an Orthodox magazine article that seeks to “conquer” us. :cool:
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Well it probably exists…😃

And just for the record I would be just as offended if for example the Orthodox suddenly flooded Iraq after the fall of ISIS with the intent of converting Chaldean Catholics to Orthodoxy.
 
Seraphim73 said:
Well it probably exists…😃

And just for the record I would be just as offended if for example the Orthodox suddenly flooded Iraq after the fall of ISIS with the intent of converting Chaldean Catholics to Orthodoxy.
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yes
 
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