The Sack of Constantinople -- 800 years later

[yeshua]

Why is this thread in this sub-forum anyway? How does this advance the identity and heritage of Eastern and Oriental Catholicism when we are preoccupied with generalizing an entire Apostolic tradition?

The fact that this thread began with a generalization of all Eastern Orthodox shocked me, pages and polemics later, I am disgusted that it has been entertained.

I would ask the moderator to please move this thread where it is appropriate, and ask why it has not been moved up until now. With that, I would question to begin with the very merit of the thread.

 

[Emil3]

I don’t mean to be a “wet blanket” and put a damper on discussion, but I can’t stand it and have to say something here.

It never ceases to amaze me that what started out as a good and very civilized thread that actually stayed “on topic” for the first 40-some posts, has gone off in another direction and has degenerated along the way. Tangents are fine, and quite normal, but with Emil3 we have a new topic entirely, not to mentioned an ever increasingly adversarial tone.

The OP was about the sacking of Constantinople by the Crusaders and had nothing at all to do with the fall of Constantinople. Maybe we should try to revert to the topic. If someone wants to discuss the FALL of Constantinople, please open a new thread in a more appropriate forum.

I beg your most humble pardon and in doing so, please consider me the last button on the livery of your lowest lacky! The FALL OF CONSTANTINOPLE was not brought up by me initially but by another poster----check the thread!!–PLEASE!!

IS this a PRIVATE CATHOLIC CLUB where some dissention is NOT Tolerated?–Shall a stake be prepared for me?—

I often smile wryly to myself when I read & post on various Fora; if the rules of DEBATE were to be followed, most posts would be thrown out!

The RCC Curch has a tradition & principle wherein REASON hopefully can coincide with the truths of the faith! Do you, my friend really adhere to that??

Let us have NO tough talk, lest we alienate any who may, in some far-off wormhole time period, LIKE US–ACCEPT US—'JOIN US"??

If you mean by civilized accepting TOTALLY erroneous facts of history and applying the latest Neutrogena Lotion to those who espouse them----SORRY, not your boy!

I wonder what is the etnic derivation of those posting so against their Latin/Western Church brothers?----EEK! could they be Orthodox or even GREEK?—Grow UP!

 

[malphono]

Why is this thread in this sub-forum anyway? How does this advance the identity and heritage of Eastern and Oriental Catholicism when we are preoccupied with generalizing an entire Apostolic tradition?

The fact that this thread began with a generalization of all Eastern Orthodox shocked me, pages and polemics later, I am disgusted that it has been entertained.

I would ask the moderator to please move this thread where it is appropriate, and ask why it has not been moved up until now. With that, I would question to begin with the very merit of the thread.

The OP began with a legitimate question, and there was no slur or “generalization” against Eastern Orthodoxy. And if one actually reads the thread, one would see that there has been little polemic involved, at least for 40+ posts.

I for one, see no reason to move the thread itself.

 

[malphono]

I beg your most humble pardon and in doing so, please consider me the last button on the livery of your lowest lacky! The FALL OF CONSTANTINOPLE was not brought up by me initially but by another poster----check the thread!!–PLEASE!!

IS this a PRIVATE CATHOLIC CLUB where some dissention is NOT Tolerated?–Shall a stake be prepared for me?—

I often smile wryly to myself when I read & post on various Fora; if the rules of DEBATE were to be followed, most posts would be thrown out!

The RCC Curch has a tradition & principle wherein REASON hopefully can coincide with the truths of the faith! Do you, my friend really adhere to that??

Let us have NO tough talk, lest we alienate any who may, in some far-off wormhole time period, LIKE US–ACCEPT US—'JOIN US"??

If you mean by civilized accepting TOTALLY erroneous facts of history and applying the latest Neutrogena Lotion to those who espouse them----SORRY, not your boy!

I wonder what is the etnic derivation of those posting so against their Latin/Western Church brothers?----EEK! could they be Orthodox or even GREEK?—Grow UP!

Sorry, Emil3, but this is absurd and I’m not taking the bait. Perhaps YOU are the one who needs to grow up.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Why is this thread in this sub-forum anyway? How does this advance the identity and heritage of Eastern and Oriental Catholicism when we are preoccupied with generalizing an entire Apostolic tradition?

The fact that this thread began with a generalization of all Eastern Orthodox shocked me, pages and polemics later, I am disgusted that it has been entertained.

I would ask the moderator to please move this thread where it is appropriate, and ask why it has not been moved up until now. With that, I would question to begin with the very merit of the thread.

To whatever extent, Yeshua, I have offended you or Eastern or Oriental Catholicism, I apologize. It was not my intent, I assure you, to do that. Nor, Hesychios, was it my intent to offend you or condemn Eastern Orthodoxy. I think you have, in this thread and in others, taken a measured position concerning these events.

It is tricky to try to answer a question like the one posed by the OP without causing flareups. I’m sure the OP did not intend to do that, and just wanted information. This just happens to be one of those issues that can be inflammatory.

 

[Emil3]

Sorry, Emil3, but this is absurd and I’m not taking the bait. Perhaps YOU are the one who needs to grow up.

BAIT—???–LOL!

You did not answer my question wherein I asked you to illustrate where ‘I’ deviated from the topic!

ABSURD? ----the final comment of someone whose post floats on ‘unsupported’ HOT AIR!

 

[malphono]

BAIT—???–LOL!

You did not answer my question wherein I asked you to illustrate where ‘I’ deviated from the topic!

ABSURD? ----the final comment of someone whose post floats on ‘unsupported’ HOT AIR!

I told you I’m not taking the bait. What part of that didn’t you understand???

 

[mardukm]

I wonder what is the etnic derivation of those posting so against their Latin/Western Church brothers?----EEK! could they be Orthodox or even GREEK?—Grow UP!

NO ONE here has posted anything against the Latin/Western Church. But there have been two or three posts against the Eastern Orthodox.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[wynd]

The OP began with a legitimate question, and there was no slur or “generalization” against Eastern Orthodoxy. And if one actually reads the thread, one would see that there has been little polemic involved, at least for 40+ posts.

Funny, it looks to me that the OP states that the Orthodox are extremely angry, unforgiving and un-Christian about this historical incident.

I for one, see no reason to move the thread itself.

Because it is a thread about Orthodoxy. When this forum was created, it was stated that threads about Orthodoxy go in the Non-Catholic Religions section and the threads in this section must be about Eastern or Oriental Catholicism.

 

[malphono]

Funny, it looks to me that the OP states that the Orthodox are extremely angry, unforgiving and un-Christian about this historical incident.

Because it is a thread about Orthodoxy. When this forum was created, it was stated that threads about Orthodoxy go in the Non-Catholic Religions section and the threads in this section must be about Eastern or Oriental Catholicism.

That’s enough. I’m out of this thread permanently.

 

[yeshua]

The OP began with a legitimate question, and there was no slur or “generalization” against Eastern Orthodoxy. And if one actually reads the thread, one would see that there has been little polemic involved, at least for 40+ posts.

I for one, see no reason to move the thread itself.

The OP asked the following question:

Why are the Orthodox still so angry about the unfortunate sacking of Constantinople?

Tell me how this is not a sweeping generalization?

As for moving the thread, we have been reminded time and again that this is not the venue to discuss Eastern Orthodoxy (on her own merits, as opposed to her relationship with Eastern and Oriental Catholics), so I do not see your justification for it to remain.

 

[Emil3]

That’s enough. I’m out of this thread permanently.

FINE WITH ME—Pick up your marbles and go cry elsewhere!

I agree----Orthodoxy & questions related to it should not be in this thread—We are ROMAN CATHOLICS or are we not?
Orthodoxy is another religion & my sad prophecy is that it will always be!

THE truth is compatible with our Church!

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother Michael,

Some say that those who forget history are bound to repeat it. So we should not kid ourselves, the Orthodox could forgive and forget the episode but will remember it as they consider future relations between the churches. The posters here might interpret that as holding a grudge, but on the other hand it could be considered just plain common sense.

There doesn’t seem to be anything about the sack that could contribute to the theological discussions which are the basis for Orthodox-Catholic colloquies. I liked your earlier theory that perhaps it is a cultural thing.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[mardukm]

I agree----Orthodoxy & questions related to it should not be in this thread—We are ROMAN CATHOLICS or are we not?
Orthodoxy is another religion & my sad prophecy is that it will always be!

Topics relating to Orthodoxy are a legitimate concern in this forum - particulary topics that have an impact on communion/reunion. Orthodoxy is part of the patrimony of the Catholic Church.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Catherine_Grant]

Note from Moderator:

This thread is on probation.

1. Because a member chose to make uncharitable and abusive posts which are now deleted.
2. Because other members quoted and responded to those abusive posts, increasing the hostility and creating more work for me to undo, instead of ignoring them and contacting me.
3. Because members chose to discuss moderator activity in the thread such as which forum it should be in instead of bringing their concerns to said moderator who could then actually do something about them.
4. Because of the above three, the conversation became off-topic and anger filled.

If you have an opinion on where this thread should find a permanent home, on if it should re-open, or a gift of fine chocolate to appease the moderator, then please say a prayer for me and then click the red triangle in the top right of this post. Write your comments in the box and I’ll get back to you either with the address for the chocolates or with a thank you for the opinion.

May God Bless You Abundantly,
Catherine

 

[Catherine_Grant]

Note from Moderator:

The OP asked for an explanation of Orthodox thoughts regarding history, so the thread is being moved to Non-Catholic Religions.

Not having received a single offer of fine chocolates or other petition for this thread’s reopening, I decided this thread is best to remain closed.

Any questions, comments or concerns can be sent to me privately.

May God Bless You Abundantly,
Catherine Grant
Eastern Catholicism Moderator