S
SacredHeartBassist
Guest
Has the gospel been proclaimed to all nations in your opinion
- Status
Z
ZMystiCat
Guest
I agree that it would be scandalous to translate the word like that. I was just saying that the Latin Vulgate itself uses the Latin from which the word was taken.
Revelation might be my most read book of the Bible. As a teen, I got caught up in the whole Dispensationalist attempt to predict the future and map images from the book to modern-day events. I eventually stopped. The mappings are generally loose, if even sensical to begin with. Now, I love it for its fantastical and apocalyptic, yet optimistic, nature.
In short, a lot of people, now myself included, read Revelation who aren’t going crazy about how it potentially maps to the modern day.
T
tafan2
Guest
I can’t say that I have a strong opinion on any of this. Maybe, but I think there are places in Asia, maybe Africa where it was never strongly missionized ( is that a word). I guess my opinion is I have no idea.
B
bsy
Guest
Dear mattiera,
What you may have heard,
“The term rapture is not even mentioned in the Bible” is a rebuttal to Protestants who love to use, “Where is that in the Bible?” as a defense.
What do Protestants say?
While the term “rapture” is not found in the Bible; 1 Thess 4:17 mentions the words “caught up” which translate to “rapere” in Latin.
The “gathering of the elect” is called the Resurrection of the Dead where our bodies will be changed from corruption to incorruption. Ref. CCC 992.
CCC 1001 When? Definitively "at the last day," "at the end of the world."557 Indeed, the resurrection of the dead is closely associated with Christ’s Parousia:
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven, with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
The Last Day is the Day of the Lord, we call it the Second Coming of Jesus…it is also the day of the Resurrection of the Dead.
What you may have heard,
“The term rapture is not even mentioned in the Bible” is a rebuttal to Protestants who love to use, “Where is that in the Bible?” as a defense.
What do Protestants say?
While the term “rapture” is not found in the Bible; 1 Thess 4:17 mentions the words “caught up” which translate to “rapere” in Latin.
What Catholic teaches:
The “gathering of the elect” is called the Resurrection of the Dead where our bodies will be changed from corruption to incorruption. Ref. CCC 992.
CCC 1001 When? Definitively "at the last day," "at the end of the world."557 Indeed, the resurrection of the dead is closely associated with Christ’s Parousia:
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven, with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
The Last Day is the Day of the Lord, we call it the Second Coming of Jesus…it is also the day of the Resurrection of the Dead.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
I figure Jesus will come down from the sky, since the angels at the Ascension said he’d return the same way he left. Other than that I have no idea and we’ll find out when it occurs.
U
undead_rat
Guest
Thanks for the cartoon. It actually does look like me, which I find quite annoying. However, perhaps it is not me, but Pope St. Pius X instead:
http://www.ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage_print.asp?number=436842
Giuseppe Sarto’s visions have traditionally been thought of as referring to the same person because a “successor of the same name” would be taken to mean a pope and historically there is only one pope alive at any given time. However, what if Pius X’s two visions refer to different people? That would not normally be possible, but in the present time we have both a “successor of the same name” (Joseph Ratzinger) and a pope residing in Vatican City. Therefore, if Pius X’s two visions do in fact refer to different persons, then they must apply to the present time together with his comment about the beginning of the last days of the world.
http://www.ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage_print.asp?number=436842
Giuseppe Sarto’s visions have traditionally been thought of as referring to the same person because a “successor of the same name” would be taken to mean a pope and historically there is only one pope alive at any given time. However, what if Pius X’s two visions refer to different people? That would not normally be possible, but in the present time we have both a “successor of the same name” (Joseph Ratzinger) and a pope residing in Vatican City. Therefore, if Pius X’s two visions do in fact refer to different persons, then they must apply to the present time together with his comment about the beginning of the last days of the world.
Last edited:
U
undead_rat
Guest
There is in our present time something else that may come down from the sky which is capable of fulfilling the prophecies of Isaiah 66:15-16, Jeremiah 25:32-33, Luke 12:49, and Luke 21:34-35. This something might also be termed “the son of man” since mankind has given birth to it.
Does Jesus come back to us as a rain of nuclear bombs delivered by ICBMs and SLBMs?
As you say, we will find out when it occurs.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Jesus is not a nuclear bomb.
U
undead_rat
Guest
Jesus is one with YHWH, and YHWH is a mystical name. It is normally translated as “I am who I am.” But it may also be taken as “I will be who I will be,” or even, “I will be what I will be.”
We are not privileged as human beings to put even the slightest of constraints on our Creator. If He sees fit to visit the earth as a rain of nuclear bombs, than that is what will happen. Such is now within the realm of possibilities and, in my opinion, fits in with Biblical prophecies.
Psalm 9:15-16
The nations have fallen into the pit that they dug;
they are caught by the feet in the snare they set themselves.
YHWH has made Himself known; has given judgment.
He has trapped the wicked in the work of their own hands.
Last edited:
Tis_Bearself
Patron
This sort of thing is a classic example of why laymen need to be extremely cautious about interpreting the Bible.
U
undead_rat
Guest
Admitted. But whatever form the second arrival takes, I feel that I am still right about the 21st century occurrence of a global nuclear war.
Then there are the visions of Pope St. Pius X. Pray for the safety of our bishops and hope that these visions do not come true.
Then there are the visions of Pope St. Pius X. Pray for the safety of our bishops and hope that these visions do not come true.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
I pray and put my trust in Jesus every day. I do not spend my time having anxiety about private revelation. That is no more productive than me having anxiety about whether I will get into a car wreck driving to the grocery store. Padre Pio and many others have taught that anxiety is pointless and useless.
Last edited:
U
undead_rat
Guest
I understand your point of view, but I am not talking about anyone’s personal anxiety here. My generation together with my parent’s generation have created an impossible situation for the next generation who are trapped in an evil weapons system capable of destroying us all. While there is a way out of this mess, the majority does not seem to understand the danger and continues to believe in their government’s lie that this evil system of retaliation is necessary for our safety. At the very least we have an obligation to inform our descendants of what is going to happen to them and why.
If, by “private revelation” your are referring to the two visions of Pope St. Pius X, lets hope that these do not come true for our present Bishops of Rome. If they do happen, then that will serve a sign to us that the ancient warnings of Holy Scripture are soon to be fulfilled.
If, by “private revelation” your are referring to the two visions of Pope St. Pius X, lets hope that these do not come true for our present Bishops of Rome. If they do happen, then that will serve a sign to us that the ancient warnings of Holy Scripture are soon to be fulfilled.
Last edited:
Z
ZMystiCat
Guest
The link itself points out that what exactly transpired is up for debate. For instance, certain accounts don’t mention a name at all, just that Pope Pius X knew the name. It could even be a reference to Pope Pius XII (same Papal name), who reigned during WWII. But to apply it to the current Papal situation is a stretch.
Sure, Jesus could come back before 2050. Sure, something could happen to Benedict and Francis. It’s just that sooner or later we need to learn that it is best to be ready, not trying to make claims about when it would happen, even generally unless that’s simply “some time in the future” (because we’re not Preterits). We’ve seen time and time again that that is a recipe for disappointment.
U
undead_rat
Guest
Let’s hope and pray that you are right, because the predictions are very negative.
However, the second vision of Pope St. Pius X obviously does not refer to either Pope Pius XI or Pope Pius XII because the visions were not fulfilled for either of them.
However, the second vision of Pope St. Pius X obviously does not refer to either Pope Pius XI or Pope Pius XII because the visions were not fulfilled for either of them.
B
BlueMaxx
Guest
Meh…
Fire and Ice
Poetry Foundation
Poems, readings, poetry news and the entire 110-year archive of POETRY magazine.
www.poetryfoundation.org
BY ROBERT FROST
Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.
U
undead_rat
Guest
That’s nice, but Isaiah 66:15-16 is also written in a poetic form. If I must choose between Frost and Isaiah, then I would say that Isaiah is the one that is divinely inspired and the one more likely to come true.
G
Gorgias
Guest
Actually, the word does appear! (@ZMystiCat beat me to the punch, with that observation!) What doesn’t appear, however, is the doctrine, which (as others have noted) was created about two hundred years ago by dispensationalists.
Don’t believe me? Go to your favorite Latin Vulgate, and open it to 1 Thessalonians 4:
See it? It’s right there: rapiemur. It’s the first-person plural future passive indicative of rapiō (so, it means “we shall be snatched”).
However, the notion that the living believers will be snatched away separately from living non-believers is found nowhere in the Scriptures, but was a doctrine snatched from thin air.
G
Gorgias
Guest
Why should I read it in the KJV? There are some much better translations out there…
Actually, I’ve read all of it.
The genre of Revelation is apocalyptic, not prophecy.
I think what you’re saying is “my interpretation of Revelation is different than yours.” That may be true… but it doesn’t mean that your interpretations are correct.
B
BlueMaxx
Guest
I think you may have misunderstood my reasoning for posting the poem…
Irregardless if a nu’clar war does erupt, it will only be because the Lord has allowed it…He is the Alpha and the Omega…and Christ has told us that things will get much worse here on this rock, much worse, before “the end” comes…so in that sense a little levity is often a good thing…because the ending has already been written…
Frost alludes this by lamenting that he knows enough of hate that irregardless of how the end may come, either one would suffice to end the evil and the ills desire gives birth to…
Mathew 13:49-50
49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire.
- Status