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TheLittleLady
Guest
Revelation is both a letter to the early Church in Her great persecution and a lovely description of Mass! I agree, the King James English is very poetic and lovely.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Be
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undead_rat
Guest
No one is trying to pin down the year, day, or hour of Jesus’ next arrival on earth. However, Pope St. Pius X was one of the Church’s greatest leaders. He was not beatified for nothing, and his visions should not be ignored. These must have been given to us for a reason.
It is accepted that he had two visions, one in 1909 and one in 1914, about some kind of disaster at Vatican City. Whether or not one accepts the “successor of the same name” part, the two visions still seem to refer to two different persons. The 1909 vision specifies a “pope,” while the 1914 vision refers to a “successor.”
Therefore, it is certainly no “stretch,” as you say, to think that the two visions of Pius X apply to our present situation where we have both a pope and a "successor’ residing at Vatican City who could be subjected to the same predicted disaster.
For many years ISIS has been making threats against the Vatican. While that organization has been driven out of Syria and Iraq, they may not be finished. Thousands of ISIS troops were allowed to leave Raqqa in convoy with their small arms. They seem to have just disappeared into the desert while promising a “day of reckoning.” Let’s hope that the Italian government has taken the necessary precautions to protect Vatican City.
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ZMystiCat
Guest
Still trying to pin down a time frame that is more specific than “in the future”, which is the problem.
They aren’t the first. They won’t be the last. And in the grand scheme of history, they’re a pretty minor threat, just the first to really capture the attention in a social media age. Sure, they could pull something, but I don’t see a reason to believe ISIS is somehow going to bring about some might-be prophecy.
And another thing: These types of visions aren’t always necessarily prophetic. Take, for instance, the Third Fatima Secret, which shares a lot of similarities with Pope Pius X’s vision. Pope Benedict, while still a cardinal, pointed out:
So not only are these matters of private revelation, they are very difficult to understand. For all we know, Pope Pius XII was the one in the vision, but perhaps he carried out actions that prevented the worst of it.
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undead_rat
Guest
The visions of Pope St. Pius X seem to be related to another prophecy which predicts a “final persecution” of the Church during the reign of Pope Francis. Unfortunately, the discussion of that prophecy is not allowed on CAF.
We have to ask ourselves why Pius X had two separate visions for the same event. Now that we have the possibility that his two visions referred to two people, the historical assumption that his two visions referred to one person is no longer valid. It is understandable why people made that assumption since it has been extremely rare for both a “successor” to the papacy and another person who is pope to be residing at Vatican City at the same time.
My conclusion is that Pope St. Pius X’s visions have to apply to our present time. Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI is over 90 years old, and these visions must be fulfilled in his lifetime. Let’s hope that the Italian government is paying attention and takes the necessary precautions.
We have to ask ourselves why Pius X had two separate visions for the same event. Now that we have the possibility that his two visions referred to two people, the historical assumption that his two visions referred to one person is no longer valid. It is understandable why people made that assumption since it has been extremely rare for both a “successor” to the papacy and another person who is pope to be residing at Vatican City at the same time.
My conclusion is that Pope St. Pius X’s visions have to apply to our present time. Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI is over 90 years old, and these visions must be fulfilled in his lifetime. Let’s hope that the Italian government is paying attention and takes the necessary precautions.
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undead_rat
Guest
Jesus said that we would know when He was “at the very gates.” Pope St. Pius X’s second vision specifically mentions “the last day of the world.” A 400 year old prophecy predicts only one more pope after Francis who may be St. Peter himself. All this as both Russia and the USA are set to spend billions on nuclear weapons and their delivery systems upgrades. Both are moving more and more towards a first strike capability. Add to that mix the pressures of global warming climate change, the ongoing the oppression of Palistinians, Iran’s developement of nuclear weapons, and N. Korea, and you have a recipe for a world-wide nuclear disaster.
I do not agree that the foresight of this disaster in the 21st century is a “problem.”
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Peebo
Guest
As a former Pentecostal who thought we good Christians would all be caught up in the rapture so we wouldn’t have to go through the tribulation…now…I look at those Christians in countries like Iraq who went through horrible persecution because of their Christian faith…many were killed…tortured…driven from their homes and even their country…yet as good Christians here in the US and elsewhere we wouldn’t have to endure any of that…now I see how utterly fake and delusional the rapture theory is.
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Gertabelle
Guest
Well, if you’re correct, we’ll know within the next ten years or so, I’m guessing.
And just how many of us will face death and judgment within those ten years?
Maybe we should all be making “necessary precautions” of the soul through prayer and sacrifice regardless of when Our Lord will return.
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Limoncello4021
Guest
What’s plan B in your carefully worked out scenario undead rat? So Benedict dies and nothing has happened. I’d like to know to check back in.
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Hodos
Guest
The concept of the rapture is a misinterpretation of a few key texts, primarily 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. It was never “inserted” into the Bible. It is just a misreading by people who have tendency to read certain phrases or sentences apart from the greater context of the entire passage.
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undead_rat
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You are correct, of course. We must undertake prayer and charity as the only true safeguards for our souls.Well, if you’re correct, we’ll know within the next ten years or so, I’m guessing.
And just how many of us will face death and judgment within those ten years?
Maybe we should all be making “necessary precautions” of the soul through prayer and sacrifice regardless of when Our Lord will return.
That being said, i feel that my older generation has an obligation to inform the present younger one who will have to suffer the consequences of our actions. What i am speaking of is the deadly trap that my generation has laid, and that trap is the massive deployment of nuclear armed ICBMs and SLBMs. Scripture predicts that this nuclear stand-off is not going to end well. Isaiah 66:15-16, Jeremiah 25:32-33, Luke 12:49 and 21:34-35 just to name a few of the more ominous passages.
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undead_rat
Guest
Thanks for asking, and let’s hope that it is your scenario that comes true: Pope Benedict XVI passes on peacefully.
When this happens I will have been thankfully proven wrong on this prediction and hopefully on all of my other dire premonitions as well.
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mythbuster1
Guest
Of course, it’s not clear how precisely to delineate Jew from Gentile. For example, I’m about 2% Israelite. Should I then be counted as a Jew or a Gentile?
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mythbuster1
Guest
No one is disputing Pope Pius X’s status as a prophet. What’s in dispute is what the prophecy means: Is it referring to his given name of Joseph, or his papal name, Pius? Will it be the first of his successors fitting the description, or a more distant one?
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mythbuster1
Guest
I think that would depend on the definition of “nation.” Revelation, however, says that the Church contains people from “every people, tongue, kindred and nation.”
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mythbuster1
Guest
The persecution described by the Bible is one where Christians are beheaded everywhere they are found, and those in hiding will not be able to buy or sell. While there are laws undermining the faith even in the US, it’s nothing like the Decian Persecution.
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EvangelistVictor
Guest
Yes, the pre-tribulation fake rapture has been used as a form to trick people into convertions into their cults, as my cradle-Catholic dad use to call them.
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Dan_Defender
Guest
That depends on where your heart is, and God knows the heart.
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undead_rat
Guest
Sir, I think that you are missing the point which is that Pope St. Pius X actually had two visions of what appears to be the same event. We must ask ourselves why two visions were necessary if each refers to the same person. The first mentions a “Pope,” while the second talks about a “successor.”
Since it is practically unheard of for both a pope and a papal successor to be residing in Vatican City at the same time, Pius X’s two visions have been traditionally viewed as referring to a single person. But if these two visions were actually meant for two different persons, then they must apply to the present situation where both a Pope and a successor to the papacy reside in Vatican City.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Every time I read one of these threads, it leaves me wishing Jesus would hurry up and arrive like in the next five minutes.
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