The secret letters of Pope John Paul II - BBC

[Catholic_Nation]

Pope John Paul II was one of the most influential figures of the 20th Century, revered by millions and made a saint in record time, just nine years after he died. The BBC has seen letters he wrote to a married woman, the Polish-born philosopher Anna-Teresa Tymieniecka, that shed new light on his emotional life.

Anna-Teresa Tymieniecka was a great hoarder, and she seems to have kept everything relating to her 32-year friendship with Saint John Paul. After her death, a huge cache of photographs was found among her possessions. We are used to seeing John Paul in formal papal clothing amid the grandeur of the Vatican, and yet here he is on the ski slopes, wearing shorts on a lake-side camping trip, and, in old age, entertaining privately in his rather sparse-looking living quarters.

Even more revealing is the archive of letters that Anna-Teresa Tymieniecka sold to the National Library of Poland in 2008. These were kept away from public view until they were shown to the BBC.

There is also a BBC Panorama documentary on at 8:30pm GMT tonight about these letters. What are Catholics to make of this exactly?

News link: bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35552997

 

[ProdglArchitect]

There is also a BBC Panorama documentary on at 8:30pm GMT tonight about these letters. What are Catholics to make of this exactly?

News link: bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35552997

Umm… that our beloved Pope was a human being who enjoyed the company of others…?

The letters deal with his relationship with a particular woman. They shared deep feelings for each other, but there’s nothing wrong with that. I can deeply love a female friend without it being sinful.

I guess I don’t see what your concern is.

Also, keep in mind, this is the BBC. Historically, they’re not exactly the most… unbiased reporters when it comes to matters dealing with the Church. I’m not saying that’s the case here, it’s just something to keep in mind during the documentary.

From Fr. James Martin, in a Facebook post he recently wrote aobut the letters:

You will probably hear about this news story about St. John Paul II and his “intense” friendship with a Polish-born philosopher. Here are a few things to put in into some context, which I have a feeling will elude most mainstream commentators:
First, everyone falls in love, including men and women who have made a vow of chastity in a religious order, and priests who have a promise of celibacy. It’s part of the human experience. As my novice director said, “If you don’t fall in love, there’s probably something wrong with you.”

Second, it doesn’t seem that St. John Paul ever broke his promise of celibacy (he was not a member of a religious order so did not take a vow of chastity) or led her on in any deceitful way. The letters seemed to indicate that he struggled with this relationship, but that he was faithful to his promise and tried not to lead her on. You’re not breaking your promise of celibacy if you fall in love, despite your best efforts.

Third, it’s not surprising that this relationship wasn’t trumpeted during his lifetime, for the simple reason that most people don’t have a clue about what it means for a person who has promised celibacy or who has vowed chastity to fall in love. For most people, even falling in love in that “state of life” is seen as some sort of hypocrisy. When in fact it’s inevitable. It doesn’t seem surprising that he would fall in love (or have strong emotional ties) to a Polish-born woman who was also a philosopher, as he was. The question is, as my novice director always said, “What is your response?”

So this story, which is almost sure to be misunderstood, needs to be seen in the context of his and her humanity, his promise of celibacy and her response to it and, especially, his overall treatment of Anna-Teresa Tymieneicka.

In the end, are we surprised that a saint could love? Or that someone could love one in return? Because that’s part of sanctity: loving and being loved.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

There is also a BBC Panorama documentary on at 8:30pm GMT tonight about these letters. What are Catholics to make of this exactly?

News link: bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35552997

Carl Bernstein says the relationship was never illicit. I hope it never was. I knew JP II had many women friends before he was ordained, when he was an actor, but I didn’t know he had an intimate relationship with a woman throughout life. Intimate, but non-sexual, of course. It does change my perception of him. I feel a little let down. I had thought this was a man who lived his entire life for Christ. Can’t anyone do without the opposite sex?

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Umm… that our beloved Pope was a human being who enjoyed the company of others…?

The letters deal with his relationship with a particular woman. They shared deep feelings for each other, but there’s nothing wrong with that. I can deeply love a female friend without it being sinful.

I guess I don’t see what your concern is.

Also, keep in mind, this is the BBC. Historically, they’re not exactly the most… unbiased reporters when it comes to matters dealing with the Church. I’m not saying that’s the case here, it’s just something to keep in mind during the documentary.

I don’t think it was sinful if this is all there was to it. It could have even made him a better pope, and the woman did marry. Presumably, she loved her husband. Still, I wish he’d given up that relationship. Our priests are told not to enter into close friendships with women because it might prove “too dangerous” to their moral life, yet here we have a beloved pope doing so. It doesn’t set a good example for our priests.

I hope the letters will be published in a book. I’d rather read than watch TV.

 

[dmar198]

I feel a little let down. I had thought this was a man who lived his entire life for Christ. Can’t anyone do without the opposite sex?

I don’t think so, rather I think that’s the opposite of what we are called to. We can’t reject any part of the Body of Christ. In Theology of the Body I think the pope puts to rest the idea that being holy means giving up the occasional company of the opposite sex.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

I don’t think it was sinful if this is all there was to it. It could have even made him a better pope, and the woman did marry. Presumably, she loved her husband. Still, I wish he’d given up that relationship. Our priests are told not to enter into close friendships with women because it might prove “too dangerous” to their moral life, yet here we have a beloved pope doing so. It doesn’t set a good example for our priests.

It might not set the best example, but I remind you that the Pope was still human, and not perfect. I updated my previous post with an except from Fr. James Martin which addresses these letters; you might read what he had to say on the subject.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

No, that’s the opposite of what we are called to. We can’t reject any part of the Body of Christ. In Theology of the Body I think the pope puts to rest the idea that being holy means giving up the company of the opposite sex.

He does. I teach Theology of the Body some semesters, though I’m not fond of it. The love men and woman share was one of JP II’s great loves. He had great respect and love for the man-woman relationship.

 

[Simca]

I haven’t looked at the link or anything, but I listened to the BBC news for about an hour today. Each time they introduced the topic they put a different spin on it.

They first said, Pope John Paul II’s relationship with a philosopher.
Then they later said, Pope John Paul II’s intimate relationship with a married woman.
Then later they said, Did Pope John Paul II have a lover?

In the hour’s time I spent listening to their “news program”, which was the same news over and over again, they never actually talked about the story. I hate sensationalist journalism

 

[Lily_Bernans]

It might not set the best example, but I remind you that the Pope was still human, and not perfect. I updated my previous post with an except from Fr. James Martin which addresses these letters; you might read what he had to say on the subject.

I would expect him to fall in love. He was a human being. However, priests are always told that if they fall in love with someone, the “right” thing to do is absent themselves from the woman’s presence, don’t have contact with her, cut her out of their life, etc.

I’m not surprised he fell in love with someone like-minded. I’ve always wondered if he was ever in love prior to joining the priesthood. What bothers me is that he didn’t cut off the relationship but seemed to nurture it. It’s a huge disappointment to me. There can’t be two sets of rules, one for him and one for other priests.

I am pretty sure he never broke his promise of chastity because of something he wrote in Theology of the Body. It’s clear he never had a sexual relationship, even before he was a priest. It kind of makes me smile when I read it because anyone who’s had a physically intimate relationship, even one, will know this man did not.

But to go camping with her? What would we say if we found out our pastor had been on a camping trip with a woman he loved? I don’t think anything good.

I will try to come to terms with it.

 

[Used2beSherryG]

Oh, gee!! Ya mean like the great friendship between St. Claire and St. Francis of Assisi?? The BBC is another media outlet who just love to push the idea of tearing down a great catholic saint by any means possible. Take a few facts and sprinkle liberally with a bunch of ruminations and fantasies and Voila! its a news story. Satan at work, hard as ever.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Oh, gee!! Ya mean like the great friendship between St. Claire and St. Francis of Assisi?? The BBC is another media outlet who just love to push the idea of tearing down a great catholic saint by any means possible. Take a few facts and sprinkle liberally with a bunch of ruminations and fantasies and Voila! its a news story. Satan at work, hard as ever.

Yes, it probably is dreadfully slanted to evoke as much sensationalism as possible. I have no qualms that it was always a chaste friendship. I’m just surprised, not that he fell in love - probably - but that he nourished it. Maybe he knew the woman wouldn’t cross any boundaries, it could have been a cerebral love.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Oh, gee!! Ya mean like the great friendship between St. Claire and St. Francis of Assisi?? The BBC is another media outlet who just love to push the idea of tearing down a great catholic saint by any means possible. Take a few facts and sprinkle liberally with a bunch of ruminations and fantasies and Voila! its a news story. Satan at work, hard as ever.

I don’t think Clare and Francis went camping together!

 

[dmar198]

I don’t think Clare and Francis went camping together!

Do note that there is evidence that the supposed “camping together” event was a whole-family event. I know the picture they took only shows the two of them, but it is clear that someone is taking the picture, and the text in the article mentions that he stayed with her whole family: “[She] invited him to stay with her family at their country home outside the tiny town of Pomfret in Vermont.” source

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Do note that there is evidence that the supposed “camping together” event was a whole-family event. I know the picture they took only shows the two of them, but it is clear that someone is taking the picture, and the text in the article mentions that he stayed with her whole family: “[She] invited him to stay with her family at their country home outside the tiny town of Pomfret in Vermont.” source

I thought of that. Someone had to be taking the photo. It was probably a group thing. Still, I can just imagine the furor if one of our pastors was camping, even in a group, with a woman he loved and exchanging an extensive correspondence with her. People would be writing to the bishop!

On the other hand, she must have been a comfort for JP II, especially in his later years. The photo of the two of them older is quite touching.

 

[CB_Catholic]

Why is everyone assuming the Pope “fell in love with her?” He loved her, yes, but that does not mean it was necessarily a romantic love. It IS possible to have a very deep love for a person without it being a romance.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Why is everyone assuming the Pope “fell in love with her?” He loved her, yes, but that does not mean it was necessarily a romantic love. It IS possible to have a very deep love for a person without it being a romance.

The excerpts I read were definitely quite romantic, which is okay, I guess, as long as he didn’t act on the impulse, and I do not think he did. If you’ve read any of his poetry, you’d know he was too passionate a man to write that kind of thing to “just a friend.”

He gave her the scapular and told her he “travels” to Pomfret every day!

It’s probably completely innocent, but it’s just such a new view of him. It’s surprising.

 

[clem456]

…
What are Catholics to make of this exactly?

As a Catholic I take offense at this question. Fortunately I gave up swearing for lent.

Do we “make” reality? Do we make a person’s reputation? Do we make a person’s interior spiritual life?

The problem is, people will “make” something out of this that it is not, through idle speculation and wicked gossip.

The answer to your question is we make nothing out of it. God made JP2 who he is and that is good enough for me.

 

[clem456]

The excerpts I read were definitely quite romantic, which is okay, I guess, as long as he didn’t act on the impulse, and I do not think he did. If you’ve read any of his poetry, you’d know he was too passionate a man to write that kind of thing to “just a friend.”

Wow, you are quite the divinizer, knowing the personal intentions and feelings, impulses, passions etc…of JP2.
Tell me where I can find your gift!!

He gave her the scapular and told her he “travels” to Pomfret every day!

It’s probably completely innocent, but it’s just such a new view of him. It’s surprising.

Yes, of course, it’s “probably” innocent. Thanks for pointing out that it’s “probably” innocent. As long as you speculate it’s probably innocent, everything is fine.

 

[AndyP2014]

I don’t think that this is all that surprising, it’s interesting just not surprising.

 

[edwest2]

Rumor and innuendo, nothing more. I have seen a photo of Karol Wojtyła on a hot day at work. He had taken off his shirt but not his scapular.

Ed