The Soul and the Brain

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Dear Friend of Proto,

Semantics gets me every time. The two artificials are gone. Only thing left is the question. If you really must have an answer. Really don’t want to hurt poor Proto’s feelings, i.e., if they are not artificial. The answer is no. But you have a soul.🙂
The next question that follows is how do you know that you have a soul beyond your own belief of the matter? Surely poor proto believes he is worthy of such a thing as well, being able to consciously think just as well as you.
 
The next question that follows is how do you know that you have a soul beyond your own belief of the matter? Surely poor proto believes he is worthy of such a thing as well, being able to consciously think just as well as you.
Dear Friend of Poor Proto,

Being a bear of very little brain, I had to reread Proto’s original post. Actually, there is no indication nor semantics that Proto believes he is worthy of a soul. All he is doing is asking a simple question. Maybe he really doesn’t want a soul and if he found out he had one he would trash it.

My answer to your question may sound odd, but it is my own answer and it fits me just fine. I believe I have a soul because I know I have one. I know I have a soul because when I look at lovely nature, I find that there is something different about me. Yes, I know I have sweet chimp cousins, but even they are different. Since the difference is not really material which can be examined with a magnifying glass, it has to be spiritual. Soul usually means spiritual. Thus, since I recognize the spiritual in me, I know I have a soul.

How do I know you have a soul? Well, I am not really a bear. I can reason. Since you are human like me, you, too, must have a soul.

I see by the green light by your name, that you are lurking somewhere. Alas and alack, I have to leave but I will be back. I am so glad that Poor Proto has you for his champion. I can sleep in peace.
 
How interesting. How do you know I’m human?
I *know *that you are human because you have human traits. Only humans have the ability to intellectually inquire about subjects other than those connected with survival and mating. Intellect is part of the immaterial/spiritual whatchamacallit soul which uses the brain to express all kinds of interesting ideas like driving an air-conditioned car instead of swinging from branch to branch to branch.

How do I know I’m human? Because I can think about the hardness and pokiness of the keyboard in front of me compared with the dreamy soft pillow on my welcoming bed. Furthermore, I can choose to lay my head on a pillow even though it means delaying instant sleep so I can turn off the computer and slip into my bed.

Am I glad you are human with a spiritual soul? Of course. Otherwise I would feel very silly wishing a chimp pleasant dreams and kissing the chimp on the forehead like a good granny should. By the way, my lights are going out.:sleep:
 
I *know *that you are human because you have human traits. Only humans have the ability to intellectually inquire about subjects other than those connected with survival and mating. Intellect is part of the immaterial/spiritual whatchamacallit soul which uses the brain to express all kinds of interesting ideas like driving an air-conditioned car instead of swinging from branch to branch to branch.

How do I know I’m human? Because I can think about the hardness and pokiness of the keyboard in front of me compared with the dreamy soft pillow on my welcoming bed. Furthermore, I can choose to lay my head on a pillow even though it means delaying instant sleep so I can turn off the computer and slip into my bed.

Am I glad you are human with a spiritual soul? Of course. Otherwise I would feel very silly wishing a chimp pleasant dreams and kissing the chimp on the forehead like a good granny should. By the way, my lights are going out.:sleep:
So, you know I am a human by making the assumption that only humans can have certain traits. However, what you are replying to are simply letters on a screen. It’s interesting that you’re already attributing traits to me that you can’t possibly know I have.

Let go of the assumptiond, how do you know that I am human? Have you met me? Have you touched me? Of course not. You’ve only replied to my words. At best, you could logically deduct that I’m very likely human.

The point is that you do NOT know for sure. So, it follows that it should then be asked how you think you have the ability to attribute souls to things which you can’t even exactly categorize correctly. If I’m a form of Alice, and you mistake me for human over this medium, who are you to say I don’t have a soul? Just so you don’t focus on the one example, what if I’m an alien living as a refugee here on Earth?
 
So, you know I am a human by making the assumption that only humans can have certain traits. However, what you are replying to are simply letters on a screen. It’s interesting that you’re already attributing traits to me that you can’t possibly know I have.

Let go of the assumptiond, how do you know that I am human? Have you met me? Have you touched me? Of course not. You’ve only replied to my words. At best, you could logically deduct that I’m very likely human.

The point is that you do NOT know for sure. So, it follows that it should then be asked how you think you have the ability to attribute souls to things which you can’t even exactly categorize correctly. If I’m a form of Alice, and you mistake me for human over this medium, who are you to say I don’t have a soul? Just so you don’t focus on the one example, what if I’m an alien living as a refugee here on Earth?
Given your humanhood status is unknown, morally we are required to assume you are human, and by extension are possessed of a “soul”. This is the safe response, since up to now no known nonhumans have successfully interacted with human beings in such a medium as this.

If it were proven you were nonhuman, truthfully your soul-status would be unknown; and possibly not our business as human beings. No doubt the Vatican’s army of full-time philosophers would swing into action at once, however, to propose a rule of thumb for nonhuman soulhood.

ICXC NIKA.
 
Given your humanhood status is unknown, morally we are required to assume you are human, and by extension are possessed of a “soul”. This is the safe response, since up to now no known nonhumans have successfully interacted with human beings in such a medium as this.

If it were proven you were nonhuman, truthfully your soul-status would be unknown; and possibly not our business as human beings. No doubt the Vatican’s army of full-time philosophers would swing into action at once, however, to propose a rule of thumb for nonhuman soulhood.

ICXC NIKA.
Exactly. Now… why are you required to assume? I’ll skip a step here since we all know the answer. For you the matter hinges on the belief that God gives humans souls.

So, now the question is back to this: How do you *know *that you have a soul? The answer is that you don’t whether you want to make this concession or not. You believe you have a soul because the idea stems from your belief that the bible is correct.

From that, it follows that since you cannot even prove you have a soul yourself, one is in no position to claim with certainty that another thing does or does not have a soul. And this is of course ignoring the fact that the entire idea of a soul is entirely philosophical.
 
So, you know I am a human by making the assumption that only humans can have certain traits. However, what you are replying to are simply letters on a screen. It’s interesting that you’re already attributing traits to me that you can’t possibly know I have.
As a granny, I wish to answer you respectfully. However, I worked in a tough environment in the behind-the-scenes development/public relations and advertising/sales promotion arenas before fax machines, www. and spell check and sometimes I slip back into old habits.

First of all, if you had worked in my office, I would point out that one error in the post, if corrected, would have created a more effective focus in the reply post. In the first sentence, traits should be singular because only one trait is described.

Next, specifics are needed as to the claim “about not knowing for sure” in regard to the obvious evidence which was presented regarding the recognition of a human being. Introducing experiential knowledge as evidence can be viewed as a distraction. Nonetheless, if one were to use experiential evidence, it would follow only if there were not reasonable evidence to substantiate a claim regarding a single trait which can establish human nature.

As for assumptions, in my day “we would run assumptions up the flag pole to see who salutes.” The post does not reflect assumptions. However, others could check the flag pole but then the assumption would be theirs and not that of the post.

As for “categorize correctly.” Actually, that is part of old-time proofreading though since the advent of spell check, one would now say that categorizing is part of editing. In my humble opinion, the categorization used sounded as if it were possible to confuse humans with things, aliens or ideas referring to “Alicebot”.

Also, there was the impression that letters in prescribed formats cannot convey information. Say what?

Furthermore, if Proto is real, how he views himself or others is his problem and does not change a valid trait signifying the presence of the human species. Valid human traits are valid in humans and do not depend on Proto assuming or not assuming a soul as if that were possible.

I like MindOverMatter’s sense of humor and enjoyed responding in kind while at the same time sticking in some thought-provoking sentences.

Lastly, The Real Point –

The issue of soul and brain is very serious because it directly reflects on who we are. Where did we come from? Where are we going?

I wish everyone the best in their search for truth and I sincerely apologize if I accidentally offended anyone. It may be helpful to realize that I worked in a long ago environment which did not depend on instant messaging but rather on real humans who understood both their corporeal and spiritual capabilities.

Blessings,
granny

All human beings are worthy of profound respect.
 
So, you know I am a human by making the assumption that only humans can have certain traits. However, what you are replying to are simply letters on a screen. It’s interesting that you’re already attributing traits to me that you can’t possibly know I have.

Let go of the assumptiond, how do you know that I am human? Have you met me? Have you touched me? Of course not. You’ve only replied to my words. At best, you could logically deduct that I’m very likely human.

The point is that you do NOT know for sure. So, it follows that it should then be asked how you think you have the ability to attribute souls to things which you can’t even exactly categorize correctly. If I’m a form of Alice, and you mistake me for human over this medium, who are you to say I don’t have a soul? Just so you don’t focus on the one example, what if I’m an alien living as a refugee here on Earth?
As a granny, I wish to answer you respectfully. However, I worked in a tough environment in the behind-the-scenes development/public relations and advertising/sales promotion arenas before fax machines, www. and spell check and sometimes I slip back into old habits.

Specifics are needed as to the claim “about not knowing for sure” in regard to the obvious evidence which was presented in my first paragraph regarding the recognition of a human being. The reply’s introduction of experiential knowledge as evidence can be viewed as a distraction. Nonetheless, if one were to use experiential evidence, it would follow only if there were not reasonable evidence to substantiate a claim regarding a single trait which can establish human nature.

As for assumptions, in my day “we would run assumptions up the flag pole to see who salutes.” My original post does not reflect assumptions. However, others could check the flag pole but then the assumption would be theirs and not that of the post.

As for “categorize correctly.” Actually, that is part of old-time proofreading though since the advent of spell check, one would now say that categorizing is part of editing. In my humble opinion, the categorization used sounded as if it were possible to confuse humans with things, aliens or ideas referring to “Alicebot”.

Also, there was the impression that letters in prescribed formats cannot convey information. Say what?

Furthermore, if Proto is real, how he views himself or others is his problem and does not change a valid trait signifying the presence of the human species. Valid human traits are valid in humans and do not depend on Proto assuming or not assuming a soul as if that were possible.

I like MindOverMatter’s sense of humor and enjoyed responding in kind while at the same time sticking in some thought-provoking sentences.

Lastly, The Real Point –

The issue of soul and brain is very serious because it directly reflects on who we are. Where did we come from? Where are we going?

I wish everyone the best in their search for truth and I sincerely apologize if I accidentally offended anyone. It may be helpful to realize that I worked in a long ago environment which did not depend on technology but rather on real humans who understood both their corporeal and spiritual capabilities.

Blessings,
granny

All human beings are worthy of profound respect.
 
The brain is affected by chemicals but the brain is just an instrument. Even when a person is unconscious he/she does not cease to exist. Otherwise he/she would lose the right to life! The mind is still active but incapable of communicating or perceiving external reality simply because the brain is not functioning normally…
But there is no sense of consciousness or awareness when certain parts of the brain have been shut down. Shouldn’t there be something?
 
But there is no sense of consciousness or awareness when certain parts of the brain have been shut down. Shouldn’t there be something?
Not really. Not all of your brain is used in the task of maintaining “consciousness.” Just like a specific part of your brain handles seeing, and if that area stops working you see nothing (they can darken your sight temporarily by magnetically “zapping” that part of your head), certain areas in the brain stem carry out consciousness, and if they are in shock (such as by a rabbit-punch to your neck) the rest of your brain will not keep you conscious.
 
Not really. Not all of your brain is used in the task of maintaining “consciousness.” Just like a specific part of your brain handles seeing, and if that area stops working you see nothing (they can darken your sight temporarily by magnetically “zapping” that part of your head), certain areas in the brain stem carry out consciousness, and if they are in shock (such as by a rabbit-punch to your neck) the rest of your brain will not keep you conscious.
So then we can agree that consciousness is a function of brain activity, as opposed to something supernatural?
 
So then we can agree that consciousness is a function of brain activity, as opposed to something supernatural?
Of course it is. You can’t be conscious (of this world) without a working head and body. Your mind, however, is transcendental, once consciousness is restored by Resurrection.
 
Of course it is. You can’t be conscious (of this world) without a working head and body. Your mind, however, is transcendental, once consciousness is restored by Resurrection.
So is the mind not a function of the brain, or is that only after the resurrection?
 
So is the mind not a function of the brain, or is that only after the resurrection?
If you mean by “mind” the intellectual ability to reason etc. then it is the function of the soul. Human death separates soul from body. At the resurrection the spiritual and corporeal elements will once again be united in a glorified form.
 
But there is no sense of consciousness or awareness when certain parts of the brain have been shut down. Shouldn’t there be something?
How do you know there is no sense of consciousness or awareness when certain parts of the brain have been shut down? There is no apparent sense of consciousness or awareness when a person is asleep does that mean the mind ceases to exist?
 
How do you know there is no sense of consciousness or awareness when certain parts of the brain have been shut down? There is no apparent sense of consciousness or awareness when a person is asleep does that mean the mind ceases to exist?
The soul and brain exist regardless of our awareness of their total functions. Our ancestors warmed themselves with fire long before Freud was born.

While it is comforting to think that we are in charge of our own existence and in a real sense we are in charge since we have to eat to live – it is the united functioning of both soul and brain which gives us life.

The point is not how do we know or what do we know about consciousness. The point is how do we respond to the unearned gift of life.
 
I disagree. All of those are valid points I think.
I agree with your thoughtful disagreement. I will rephrase. Knowing about our consciousness and what it entails are important. It can add to our quality of life. The ultimate point or the end goal is the question – How do we respond to the unearned gift of life. How does that sound to you?
 
I agree with your thoughtful disagreement. I will rephrase. Knowing about our consciousness and what it entails are important. It can add to our quality of life. The ultimate point or the end goal is the question – How do we respond to the unearned gift of life. How does that sound to you?
Sounds like we’re at the good old question of “why are we here” to me. 🙂
 
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