The SSPX and True Catholicism

[Unfinished]

So Unfinished, do you still attend the indult Mass?

Yup. Couldn’t live without it.

But back on topic…

Yes it could be 1 sspx church, it could be 10.

But I hope you know that the SSPX priests who bash the Novus Ordo dont do it just for the fun of it…they are just manifesting their anger. Something we all have trouble doing.

Often times I type nearly sedevacantist posts here on CAF, not because im a Sede, but just because sometimes you get pushed over the edge a bit. Its a vent and it expresses your zeal, even if expressed in an uncharitable way, for the renewel of the Liturgy.

Perhaps. And I of all people can understand their frustrations. But the pulpit is not the place for angry tyrades. You can teach about what is wrong without turning it into a bashing contest. Once again, perhaps the priests just needed some guidence on how to give a homily.

But we cannot allow our experiences with the SSPX that are bad, cloud our experiences with them that are good, and we cannot forget that the SSPX have contributed greatly to the Traditional movement as it stands today.

We have not forgotten.

And I think the Bishop Fellay comment is a bit untrue. Bishop Fellay is the Bishop out of the four that is working the hardest for reunification. Its Williamson who would probably slam the door in the Popes face.

Sorry. I don’t know them all that well.

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

Yup. Couldn’t live without it.

Yes…the source and summit of Christian life.

Sorry. I don’t know them all that well.

No problem. Thats probably just due to my long affiliation with the Bishops. They are amazingly good at visiting the SSPX chapels across the country all the time.

 

[Adonis33]

Missa, I’ll give you the down and dirty on my take with the SSPX.

But first, know that I finally left my previous Church when I went to Mass one day and they started singing “Awesome God” complete with choreography. It was the last straw, I had enough of the priest shoveling the Sacred Hosts by the handful and 18 (yes, 18) EMHCs up on the altar handing out communion. Not to mention the mini skirts, flip flops on the altar girls, and a host of other problems that made me wonder.

The next Sunday I went to the indult parish 45 minutes away just to check it out. I walked in the small church and took a big whiff of the incense left over from adoration that morning. As my eyes adjusted I focused on the altar, the statues, the candles, the altar rail - everything. I knew right then I was never going back to my previous parish. It took about three Sundays of “just” Low Mass and I came to the conclusion that I would now die without the Latin Mass. Then came the monthly High Mass. It was like a breath of fresh air.

Onward to the SSPX. Their chapel is closer, so I thought “why not?”

Perhaps it was just the priests there, but I do not attend Mass to listen to a homily about the “evils of the Novus Ordo.” As sick of the abuses as I was, I couldn’t be “fed” there despite the beauty of the liturgy. Now, I do not mean to make generalizations, but it seemed like there was more Pope and Novus Ordo bashing going on from the pulpit then there was teaching of the Scriptures.

And perhaps that is just this one SSPX Church. In fact, I would like to believe that it is just this one Church. But, at the same time, I feel that if Pope Benedict showed up at Bishop Fellay’s doorstep, beating his breast and stating that Vatican II was all wrong, it wouldn’t be enough for them.

They may say formally they only want freedom of the Tridentine Mass and the excommunications lifted, but the attitude put forth sometimes says otherwise. Once again, it would make my DAY/MONTH/YEAR/DECADE/LIFETIME if the SSPX were reunited, but sometimes I wonder. Just because of what I have seen.

Edit: To add, I am glad your experience with the SSPX was favorable. And Heaven knows I am thankful for what they have done, even if it wasn’t the proper means. Maybe one day all this will get settled.

Although, after saying ALL that, perhaps I am a hypocrit, but I would still take the SSPX over the local Novus Ordo parish.

It is this attitude I have seen that has me considering going to the indult, or finding a conservative NO parish. I may not feel very comfortable at the NO mass - however to say it is invalid, or worse - evil - in my opinion borders on the heretical.

Worse yet, after mass I have to hear the “we can’t trust the Vatican” rhetoric after I try to express my hope at what our current Pope is trying to do. I sincerely feel that there is hope at some sort of reconciliation.

Howver - that being said - most of the homilies are about faith and morals, and are for superior to those I hear at the NO parishes I have been to (only my opinion).

 

[Unfinished]

From The Remnant: the Superior-General of the Priestly Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX/FSSPX), Bishop Bernard Fellay, adds some new information. (pulled off Rorate Caeli)

(5) Vatican II and doctrinal discussions:

The Church needs to go back to the principles, to the solid. Vatican II is like plastic. It’s not solid. It’s ambiguous. It’s inconsistent. Even discussing Vatican II is not going to bring you much. We have to go back to the solid. If the discussions bring us to that point, then fine. But if the base of the discussions is Vatican II, then forget it.

(7) On “Traditionalist ecumenism”:

...the great majority of the Ecclesia Dei movement sticks to the Mass, but not to the doctrine. **They have already swallowed the poison**. So, I don’t see any big traditionalist ecumenism. (bold mine)

The poison of Vatican II? (Maybe he just means people acting “in the spirit of Vatican II?”)

I stand by what I said before. The SSPX only wants to reconcile on their terms. They still seem so stubborn to admit any error. Or, so it seems.

sigh I was hopeful today until I read this. Motu Proprio where are yooooooou?

 

[paramedicgirl]

From The Remnant: the Superior-General of the Priestly Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX/FSSPX), Bishop Bernard Fellay, adds some new information. (pulled off Rorate Caeli)

(5) Vatican II and doctrinal discussions:

The Church needs to go back to the principles, to the solid. Vatican II is like plastic. It’s not solid. It’s ambiguous. It’s inconsistent. Even discussing Vatican II is not going to bring you much. We have to go back to the solid. If the discussions bring us to that point, then fine. But if the base of the discussions is Vatican II, then forget it.

(7) On “Traditionalist ecumenism”:

...the great majority of the Ecclesia Dei movement sticks to the Mass, but not to the doctrine. **They have already swallowed the poison**. So, I don’t see any big traditionalist ecumenism. (bold mine)

The poison of Vatican II? (Maybe he just means people acting “in the spirit of Vatican II?”)

I stand by what I said before. The SSPX only wants to reconcile on their terms. They still seem so stubborn to admit any error. Or, so it seems.

sigh I was hopeful today until I read this. Motu Proprio where are yooooooou?

It’s right here

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[bear06]

It’s right here

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c156/paramedicgirl/MotoProprui.jpg

Where did you get this?!!!

 

[AJV]

Where did you get this?!!!

The blog of a certain forum member with whom you had crossed swords quite often, IIRC

 

[pnewton]

It is completely wrong to push the SSPX togather with the liberals and the heretics.

You are right they shoule no be groupe them with heretics, but wrong about liberals. Both refuse obedience to the Church on non-essential doctrinal matters. I can only speak for myself to answer the question as to why the SSPX are treated as orphans.

It is not that I view any individual as less than devout, nor would I ever want to judge a person who was strongly convicted that the SSPX was the group through which the Holy Spirit operated. But I do recognize that if they are in schism and out of union with Rome, that there is an objective lack of communion that exists. On a personal level, I find it hard to accept the idea of loyalty to Rome without obedience. Area of commonality then become an orthodoxy of coincidence and not of humilty to God’s established authority. It one group decides that this set of rules should be opposed because they are too modern, then they become hypocritcal to criticize those who decide more traditional rules should be abandoned for modernism.

I do not doubt the sincerity of anyone, but should one stay in the SSPX with full knowledge of the schism, willful pride and knowledge that the Catholic Church is still the on Christ founded, doesn’t EENS say they are in objective mortal sin?

 

[bear06]

The blog of a certain forum member with whom you had crossed swords quite often, IIRC

Did he actually read it?! Maybe his sense of humor didn’t completely disappear!

 

[AJV]

Did he actually read it?! Maybe his sense of humor didn’t completely disappear!

I see that you’ll are still crossing swords.

EDIT: paramedicgirl, I see you posted the blog link which I missed. Sorry to steal your thunder.

 

[bear06]

I see that you’ll are still crossing swords.

Now AJV, there are no swords (we’re a gun family, don’t ya know ) I thought this was hysterical and a masterful piece of sarcastic artwork. I have nothing but warm fuzzies for the good doctor.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Did he actually read it?! Maybe his sense of humor didn’t completely disappear!

Uhhh. He made it up, bear. And no, the sense of humour is very much alive.

 

[paramedicgirl]

I see that you’ll are still crossing swords.

EDIT: paramedicgirl, I see you posted the blog link which I missed. Sorry to steal your thunder.

Only the very astute were supposed to see that link in small print.
You are astute, AJV.

 

[AJV]

Only the very astute were supposed to see that link in small print.
You are astute, AJV.

Why thank you paramedicgirl. As you can see flatterring messages in small print always get my attention

And you might wish to tell him that it is L’ Osservatore not La Osservatore.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Why thank you paramedicgirl. As you can see flatterring messages in small print always get my attention

And you might wish to tell him that it is L’ Osservatore not La Osservatore.

When you make those up, you have to use a name that does not exist. Can’t use the real thing.

 

[Marilena]

You are right they shoule no be groupe them with heretics, but wrong about liberals. Both refuse obedience to the Church on non-essential doctrinal matters. I can only speak for myself to answer the question as to why the SSPX are treated as orphans.

It is not that I view any individual as less than devout, nor would I ever want to judge a person who was strongly convicted that the SSPX was the group through which the Holy Spirit operated. But I do recognize that if they are in schism and out of union with Rome, that there is an objective lack of communion that exists. On a personal level, I find it hard to accept the idea of loyalty to Rome without obedience. Area of commonality then become an orthodoxy of coincidence and not of humilty to God’s established authority. It one group decides that this set of rules should be opposed because they are too modern, then they become hypocritcal to criticize those who decide more traditional rules should be abandoned for modernism.

I do not doubt the sincerity of anyone, but should one stay in the SSPX with full knowledge of the schism, willful pride and knowledge that the Catholic Church is still the on Christ founded, doesn’t EENS say they are in objective mortal sin?

but what if a laity stays with full knowledge of the schism, but not willful pride, and accepts the fact that the Catholic Church is the one Christ founded? the SSPX does know and accept that the Catholic Church is the one Christ founded. No one denies that fact.

 

[paramedicgirl]

but what if a laity stays with full knowledge of the schism, but not willful pride, and accepts the fact that the Catholic Church is the one Christ founded? the SSPX does know and accept that the Catholic Church is the one Christ founded. No one denies that fact.

If you go the SPPX out of love for the Tridentine rite, and not to partake in the schism, then you are not guilty of anything.

Except of course, loving the Tridentine Mass

 

[Marilena]

If you go the SPPX out of love for the Tridentine rite, and not to partake in the schism, then you are not guilty of anything.

Except of course, loving the Tridentine Mass

that is exactly why i go, the love of the Tridentine Mass, same reason why so many in our church go.

 

[paramedicgirl]

that is exactly why i go, the love of the Tridentine Mass, same reason why so many in our church go.

Marilena, read this.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I have been to the SSPX Mass in Calgary four times in the last six years, and I have never heard any NO bashing in the homilies. When I was there in November for my sisters’ confirmations, Bishop Tissier said the Mass, and his homily was about the sacraments of the Church. All seven sacraments. I honestly never hear homilies like that at my NO church, but I wish I did.

My limited experience with the SSPX Mass has been a good one. No NO bashing. Only reverence, beauty and sacredness.

Makes me want to cry going back to my NO parish. When will that Motu Proprio be released?

The one mass I attended at the SSPX chapel here was High Mass. There wasn’t much of a homily at all. The priest spent the whole of it bashing the NO (he called it an abomination-twice). My experience is not yours.