The sufficiency of Christ

  • Thread starter Thread starter 2nd_Adam
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
You are begging the question…
What’s the question? Scripture is pointing to our sufficiency found in Christ alone.

John 5:39

You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,
 
Okay, let’s do this… We know that it is the person and work of Christ which saves sinners. So, how do we know how effectual is the work of Christ to be for those whom God has chosen (His elect)? Do we find this revelation from
  1. Scripture
  2. Scripture and the Catholic Church?
This isn’t the question she asked. You are still taking Scripture as a given and not explaining your reasons for it.
 
Totally didn’t answer that question. I’m going to rename you Neo for the way you dodge things. Where in Scripture does it say Scripture is sufficient. You said you believe in the sufficiency of scripture, so for that to be true it has to say that somewhere in scripture.

Do you believe one can find God without the scriptures?
Please look at the thread title; it’s about the sufficiency of Jesus Christ. Without the special revelation about Jesus Christ known as the good news of God, or the gospel, there is no salvation. Certaintly the Apostles preached Christ and Him crucified for sinners before the formulation of the New Testament Scriptures. It’s not about the Scriptures in itself, nor the Catholic Church. Life is found in Christ! This is what I am sharing:

1 Corinthians 2:2

For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
 
What’s the question? Scripture is pointing to our sufficiency found in Christ alone.

John 5:39

You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,
She asked if where does Scripture say it’s sufficient which is not the same as if Scripture can reveal the Sufficient One to us. Hence you are begging the question by not answering it. See post #334
 
What’s the question? Scripture is pointing to our sufficiency found in Christ alone.

John 5:39

You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,
Not according to you. You said you believe in the sufficiency of Christ and the sufficiency of Scriptures, and I asked where in scripture did it say scripture is sufficient.
 
She asked if where does Scripture say it’s sufficient which is not the same as if Scripture can reveal the Sufficient One to us. Hence you are begging the question by not answering it. See post #334
The entire OT and NT are pointing to our sufficiency of Jesus Christ. Don’t get caught up in the battle between sola scriptura or the Catholic Magestrium. Look at this verse. It’s not about Jesus giving all men an opportunity to be saved. Christ came into this fallen world to actually save sinners from their sins. Paul was the Chief sinner all of mankind in whom Christ saved. He saved Paul in-spite of his own free will to persecute the church of God

The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost. - 1 Timothy 1:15
 
Please look at the thread title; it’s about the sufficiency of Jesus Christ. Without the special revelation about Jesus Christ known as the good news of God, or the gospel, there is no salvation. Certaintly the Apostles preached Christ and Him crucified for sinners before the formulation of the New Testament Scriptures. It’s not about the Scriptures in itself, nor the Catholic Church. Life is found in Christ! This is what I am sharing:

1 Corinthians 2:2

For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
I understand what the thread title is, I’m just asking you about something you said you believe that I want you to expound on. It could have much to do with the topic at hand. And just so everyone knows, I’m a dude.
 
The entire OT and NT is pointing to our sufficiency of Jesus Christ. Don’t get caught up in the battle between sola scriptura or the Catholic Magestrium.
Izoid asked this question and dismissed as it above you, pointing him here to discuss it. Can you not follow through with your own suggestion to answer it in this thread?
 
Not according to you. You said you believe in the sufficiency of Christ and the sufficiency of Scriptures, and I asked where in scripture did it say scripture is sufficient.
I can’t help you if you are unable to make the connection.
 
I can’t help you if you are unable to make the connection.
It’s not up to me to make the connection. The burden of proof is on you because you made the statement. I just want you to qualify it and I will take this answer as an admission that you can’t answer the question.
 
Okay, let’s do this… We know that it is the person and work of Christ which saves sinners. So, how do we know how effectual is the work of Christ to be for those whom God has chosen (His elect)? Do we find this revelation from
  1. Scripture
  2. Scripture and the Catholic Church?
From the Catholic Church
 
The sufficiency of Christ

I believe the essential difference between Protestants and Catholics is the work of Christ for sinners. It really has to do with the sufficiency of Christ. A Catholic brother posted on another thread that Christ is all sufficient. However, I believe the Protestant position is really about the sufficiency of Christ, and the Catholic view of the work of Christ is not the same. The Catholic position has a lower view of the work of Christ than Protestants in the disucssion of sufficiency.
There are too many people asking too many questions. Let’s please go back to the OP and go from there. In regards to the OP above, what is your question?
 
Originally Posted by 2nd Adam
There are too many people asking too many questions. Let’s please go back to the OP and go from there. In regards to the OP above, what is your question?
See post #2.
You’ve made these statements but not said why you believe the above. Why do you believe that the Catholic position is lower in terms of Christ’s sufficiency? How are the Protestants and Catholics views different?

Thanks!
Catholics have a lower view of the sufficiency of Christ because they reject a forensic justification, the doctrine of imputation, penal substitution, and adoption through propitiation… leaving Catholics with a tendency to have fear and uncertainty of their eternal destination. Christ is sufficient for those who understand the truth of adoption through propitiation.

Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation
Westminster Confession of Faith Chapter 18

Although hypocrites and other unregenerate men may vainly deceive themselves with false hopes and carnal presumptions of being in the favor of God and estate of salvation, which hope of theirs shall perish: yet such as truly believe in the Lord Jesus, and love him in sincerity, endeavoring to walk in all good conscience before him, may in this life be certainly assured that they are in a state of grace, and may rejoice in the hope of the glory of God, which hope shall never make them ashamed.

This certainty is not a bare conjectural and probable persuasion, grounded upon a fallible hope; but an infallible assurance of faith, founded upon the divine truth of the promises of salvation, the inward evidence of those graces unto which these promises are made, the testimony of the Spirit of adoption witnessing with our spirits that we are the children of God: which Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance, whereby we are sealed to the day of redemption.

This infallible assurance doth not so belong to the essence of faith, but that a true believer may wait long, and conflict with many difficulties before he be partaker of it: yet, being enabled by the Spirit to know the things which are freely given him of God, he may, without extraordinary revelation, in the right use of ordinary means, attain thereunto. And therefore it is the duty of every one to give all diligence to make his calling and election sure; that thereby his heart may be enlarged in peace and joy in the Holy Ghost, in love and thankfulness to God, and in strength and cheerfulness in the duties of obedience, the proper fruits of this assurance: so far is it from inclining men to looseness.

True believers may have the assurance of their salvation divers ways shaken, diminished, and intermitted; as, by negligence in preserving of it; by falling into some special sin, which woundeth, the conscience, and grieveth the Spirit; by some sudden or vehement temptation; by God’s withdrawing the light of his countenance, and suffering even such as fear him to walk in darkness and to have no light: yet are they never utterly destitute of that seed of God, and life of faith, that love of Christ and the brethren, that sincerity of heart and conscience of duty, out of which, by the operation of the Spirit, this assurance may in due time be revived, and by the which, in the mean time, they are supported from utter despair.

The Grounds of Assurance - How Can We Be Sure?
Adapted from John Frame’s Salvation Belongs to the Lord
  1. The “divine truth of the promises of salvation” (Jn. 1:12; 3:15-16, 36; 5:24; 6:35, 40, 47). Justification comes from faith, trusting in God’s promises. If you believe God’s promises, that is, if you believe in Jesus Christ, you have a right to assurance (Acts 16:31; Rom. 4:3, 20-21; 10:9; Gal. 3:7-9; Heb. 3:14; 6:12).
  2. The “inward evidence of those graces unto which these promises are made.” Progressive sanctification is the inseparable evidence (or fruit) of definitive sanctification and must be proved by a balanced combination self-examination and communal-examination (1 Cor. 11:28; 2 Cor. 13:5; 1 Jn. 1:6; 2:3, 29; 3:6-10, 24; 4:7; 5:1, 18).
  3. The “testimony of the Spirit to our adoption witnessing with our spirits that we are children of God” (Rom. 8:16-17).
 
40.png
2nd_Adam:
Where is your answer?
 
Catholics have a lower view of the sufficiency of Christ because they reject a forensic justification, the doctrine of imputation, penal substitution, and adoption through propitiation… leaving Catholics with a tendency to have fear and uncertainty of their eternal destination. Christ is sufficient for those who understand the truth of adoption through propitiation.

Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation
Westminster Confession of Faith Chapter 18

Although hypocrites and other unregenerate men may vainly deceive themselves with false hopes and carnal presumptions of being in the favor of God and estate of salvation, which hope of theirs shall perish: yet such as truly believe in the Lord Jesus, and love him in sincerity, endeavoring to walk in all good conscience before him, may in this life be certainly assured that they are in a state of grace, and may rejoice in the hope of the glory of God, which hope shall never make them ashamed.

This certainty is not a bare conjectural and probable persuasion, grounded upon a fallible hope; but an infallible assurance of faith, founded upon the divine truth of the promises of salvation, the inward evidence of those graces unto which these promises are made, the testimony of the Spirit of adoption witnessing with our spirits that we are the children of God: which Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance, whereby we are sealed to the day of redemption.

This infallible assurance doth not so belong to the essence of faith, but that a true believer may wait long, and conflict with many difficulties before he be partaker of it: yet, being enabled by the Spirit to know the things which are freely given him of God, he may, without extraordinary revelation, in the right use of ordinary means, attain thereunto. And therefore it is the duty of every one to give all diligence to make his calling and election sure; that thereby his heart may be enlarged in peace and joy in the Holy Ghost, in love and thankfulness to God, and in strength and cheerfulness in the duties of obedience, the proper fruits of this assurance: so far is it from inclining men to looseness.

True believers may have the assurance of their salvation divers ways shaken, diminished, and intermitted; as, by negligence in preserving of it; by falling into some special sin, which woundeth, the conscience, and grieveth the Spirit; by some sudden or vehement temptation; by God’s withdrawing the light of his countenance, and suffering even such as fear him to walk in darkness and to have no light: yet are they never utterly destitute of that seed of God, and life of faith, that love of Christ and the brethren, that sincerity of heart and conscience of duty, out of which, by the operation of the Spirit, this assurance may in due time be revived, and by the which, in the mean time, they are supported from utter despair.

The Grounds of Assurance - How Can We Be Sure?
Adapted from John Frame’s Salvation Belongs to the Lord
  1. The “divine truth of the promises of salvation” (Jn. 1:12; 3:15-16, 36; 5:24; 6:35, 40, 47). Justification comes from faith, trusting in God’s promises. If you believe God’s promises, that is, if you believe in Jesus Christ, you have a right to assurance (Acts 16:31; Rom. 4:3, 20-21; 10:9; Gal. 3:7-9; Heb. 3:14; 6:12).
  2. The “inward evidence of those graces unto which these promises are made.” Progressive sanctification is the inseparable evidence (or fruit) of definitive sanctification and must be proved by a balanced combination self-examination and communal-examination (1 Cor. 11:28; 2 Cor. 13:5; 1 Jn. 1:6; 2:3, 29; 3:6-10, 24; 4:7; 5:1, 18).
  3. The “testimony of the Spirit to our adoption witnessing with our spirits that we are children of God” (Rom. 8:16-17).
Adam, I gotta take on the day and finish my column. I’m glad you finally answered something. I hope you listen to Catholic point of view and any corrections as you mentioned in the OP. I will respond to you later.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top