The sufficiency of Christ

[2nd_Adam]

How about this one:
**Originally Posted by 2nd Adam **
The two yardsticks which measure the love of God for us in the New Testament are the doctrines of adoption and propitiation.

Originally posted by guanophore: Can you point out these “yardsticks” in Scripture, or is this part of the Calvanistic extrabiblical revelation?

I know you posted verses which show our adoption and propitiation, but where, specifically do the Scriptures say that this is the “measure of the love of God for us”? Chapter and verse, please. Perhaps if you highlighted words such as “yardstick” or “measure” that are in the verses that would help me see it clearly.

We are only communicating truths through words. If you don’t see the great love of God through the Scriptures on adoption and propitation, then I can’t help you in your progressive growth in your love and affection for God. Peter tells us to grow in the grace and knowledge in the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul tells us in view of God’s mercy (cross of Christ), be transformed by the renewing of our minds. That’s all we are doing on this thread. Looking at the person and work of Christ on our behalf with greater depth which will grow our love for our Triune God.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Both things are true. He died for the sins of all. Those who recieve Him, He give power to become sons.

Again, both things are true. He died to save us from our sins. He made a way for the salvation of the whole world. Not all choose to avail themselves of His payment on their behalf.

I think that James missed it too. There is no debate about the sufficiency of grace either.

Please brother, don’t breakup your answers in the way that you do. It’s too hard to follow all your thoughts. Could you please just respond with an entire paragraph to my posting to you instead of cutting them the way that you do. Thanks bro!

 

[2nd_Adam]

Once again he quotes james White, a hostile anti catholic apologist to prove his point. I think Adam’s true colors shine through his rhetoric.

So, that’s you’re new game plan. We are in each other’s perpetual doghouse, but you will talk about me behind my back. You’re one of a kind.

 

[izoid]

So, that’s you’re new game plan. We are in each other’s perpetual doghouse, but you will talk about me behind my back. You’re one of a kind.

Regarding your views on the sufficiency of Christ, do you feel that Christ’s death paid everything and that nothing else is needed for justification?

If so, what is true faith that activates salvation?

What happens when one walks with God for a period of time and then rejects God, is Christ’s death sufficient to keep that person saved?

How do you interpret James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

 

[Pharos963]

2nd Adam…I see you no retort to what I posted…So I will post it again:
2ND Adam as far as I can tell, you have been given the truth! If you can not believe it that is up to you!..read the gospels and you will see what we as Christians(Catholics) know the truth. Easily understood!!!, Jesus will protect His word…plain truth… no misunderstanding! This is My Body…This is My Blood…Easy, anyone who has ears let them hear! You do not believe, you do not understand…OK so we who do should we bow down and worship as you do? I think not!!! I will not!! i WILL NOT QUESTION WHAT i UNDERSTAND THROUGH FAITH…AND WILL NOT QUESTION WHAT i DO NOT SEE THROUGH MY OWN EYES!!! It is thru FAITH that WE have FOR OVER 2000 Years been part of the true believers!MY faith isn’t something to shy away from! It started 200th years ago on calvary and goes on today. I see it each and every day when I attend Mass and See(with my eyes and ears) Jesus offered again and always in the one and only sacrifice!!!
Until you begin to understand this you will always have trouble w/ the rest of what Christ the King(feast day celebrated today 11/22/09)…
Come bow before your King!!!

 

[2nd_Adam]

Adam, speaking for myself and many Catholics I know, we have the confidence that “he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus”. We just agree that the work is not yet complete, and acknowledge our limitations in knowing what only God can know for sure as well as the possibility of our not persevering to the end. This is humility-not lack of trust-and the difference is not so great-it’s the difference of admitting that we must maintain a certain amount of vigilance, looking back over our shoulders now and then to assess whether or not our lives are measuring up, so to speak-and hopefully doing something about it when they don’t-things I think most Protestants do anyway in spite of a professed 100% certainty of salvation.

That’s a very good post! I don’t think Protestant profess 100% certainty in either the Arminian Protestant camp nor the Reformed camp. I’m glad you have much assurance as a Catholic Christian if you are able to use the word “assurance”. I don’t believe you are able to see yourself as an elect. All these postings are historical divides in which caused the Protestant Reformation. It still goes back to our official view of justification and sanctification. We are on the right track! Thanks so much for your post!

 

[benidict]

You have talked more about Mormons and Mormonism on this thread than anybody else. I went back and checked. That is true. I want to talk about you and your thread topic, and you keep taking about Mormonism instead.

hi z. i wonder just for grins and giggles, if you would have posted another religious preference, and not quoted out of doctrines and covenants, if 2nd, would have even guessed you were a mormon…:shrug:doubtful. peace be with you.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Regarding your views on the sufficiency of Christ, do you feel that Christ’s death paid everything and that nothing else is needed for justification?

If so, what is true faith that activates salvation?

What happens when one walks with God for a period of time and then rejects God, is Christ’s death sufficient to keep that person saved?

How do you interpret James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

Izoid, I will no longer respond to you.

It’s time for me to move on with those Catholics who are able to discuss things with me. Have a joyful life in the Lord brother, and I wish you well. Catholics and Protestants are much closer than you think. And yes, there is a remnant chosen by grace in both of our Christian communities. I just would like to grow in our affection and love for God together with my Catholic and Protestant siblings on Catholic Answers. I have no desire to fight with others on a consistent basis.

:hug1: :harp::grouphug:

 

[benidict]

Please brother, don’t breakup your answers in the way that you do. It’s too hard to follow all your thoughts. Could you please just respond with an entire paragraph to my posting to you instead of cutting them the way that you do. Thanks bro!

hi brother 2nd. i dont think anybody else has a problem with the way guanaphore anweres. i think the disection is pretty interesting myself. and he is alot more accurate in his responses, than i could ever be. lol! peace be with you.:grouphug:

 

[izoid]

Izoid, I will no longer respond to you.

It’s time for me to move on with those Catholics who are able to discuss things with me. Have a joyful life in the Lord brother, and I wish you well. Catholics and Protestants are much closer than you think. And yes, there is a remnant chosen by grace in both of our Christian communities. I just would like to grow in our affection and love for God togther with my Catholic and Protestant siblings on Catholic Answers. I have no desire to fight with others on a consistent basis.

Regarding your views on the sufficiency of Christ, do you feel that Christ’s death paid everything and that nothing else is needed for justification?

If so, what is true faith that activates salvation?

What happens when one walks with God for a period of time and then rejects God, is Christ’s death sufficient to keep that person saved?

How do you interpret James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

 

[Dancelittleewok]

Fine, then we are in each other’s dog house. I should never had let you out of my dog house in the first place. You are like a disgruntled employee but instead a disgruntled hostile ex-protestant who has a personal bone to pick. I have no idea what happened to you in the Protestant community to be so hostile and angry? For awhile, I thought you came from the Westboro Baptist Church, but I’m glad I was wrong. Have a good life brother. So, please stick with your posting above and no more dialog then between each other. We are in each other’s perpetual dog house.

http://www.joeydevilla.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/in-the-doghouse.gif
Perpetual doghouse

Wanting you to answer his genuine question is hostile and means he has a bone to pick? Sheesh.

 

[fhansen]

That’s a very good post! I don’t think Protestant profess 100% certainty in either the Arminian Protestant camp nor the Reformed camp. I’m glad you have much assurance as a Catholic Christian if you are able to use the word “assurance”. I don’t believe you are able to see yourself as an elect. All these postings are historical divides in which caused the Protestant Reformation. It still goes back to our official view of justification and sanctification. We are on the right track! Thanks so much for your post!

But, for me, the sufficiency of Christs sacrifice becomes not much more than a conceptual thing-an intellectual exercise because, while of course His atonement is sufficient for however God intends it to be, if I recognize that people can be wrong about their own election, or that I must maintain vigilance-do my own part IOW as the ten virgins were admonished to or the lazy servant failed to do with his talents, then I admit that my election must be made sure-because there’s the possibility that it’s not sure.

 

[PRmerger]

We are only communicating truths through words. If you don’t see the great love of God through the Scriptures on adoption and propitation, then I can’t help you in your progressive growth in your love and affection for God. Peter tells us to grow in the grace and knowledge in the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul tells us in view of God’s mercy (cross of Christ), be transformed by the renewing of our minds. That’s all we are doing on this thread. Looking at the person and work of Christ on our behalf with greater depth which will grow our love for our Triune God.

Interesting comment. You ask for direct Scripture quotes and maintain you will not dialogue with someone unless it is provided…(is it you who won’t read links but have a link in your signature??) but when asked for chapter and verse to support your claims about yardsticks and measure, you now claim “it’s just in the Scriptures and I’m sorry you can’t see it.”

sigh!

 

[Pharos963]

2nd,why won’t you address what I have given you? The sufficiency of Christ The King(feast day 11/22/09) is dealt w/ in the gospel! He that has ears let him hear… We have given you scripture and verse yet you refute what you have heard. What more do you need? do you need Christ to come down and say to you “Eat and Receive”? Blessed are those who believe and not seen…

 

[benidict]

Izoid, I will no longer respond to you.

It’s time for me to move on with those Catholics who are able to discuss things with me. Have a joyful life in the Lord brother, and I wish you well. Catholics and Protestants are much closer than you think. And yes, there is a remnant chosen by grace in both of our Christian communities. I just would like to grow in our affection and love for God together with my Catholic and Protestant siblings on Catholic Answers. I have no desire to fight with others on a consistent basis.

:hug1: :harp::grouphug:

oh give me a break brother 2nd. im alot harder on you in our pm.s. where is this, im gonna pick up my marbles and go home attitude coming from? its kinda childish. i know you have the ability to respond to izoid. you should be able to communicate with him in a reasonable way. hes way nicer to protestants than i am, and you and i converse just fine. so put the marbles back on the ground give izoid a hug, and lets play. i know ya got it in ya! peace be with you.:grouphug:

 

[2nd_Adam]

hi z. i wonder just for grins and giggles, if you would have posted another religious preference, and not quoted out of doctrines and covenants, if 2nd, would have even guessed you were a mormon…:shrug:doubtful. peace be with you.

Hey brother in tropical Hawaii!!!

It’s been stormy all weekend with snow at the foothills by my house. I find it interesting that you want to offer Zee the Mormon a Corona as a sign of fellowship between you and him. I’m not sure he drinks beer though. I know he doesn’t drink Kona Coffee. I love Kona Coffee. Have you tried local Hawaiians food? I used to go to Hawaii every summer as a kid. My relatives would slaughter a pig for us and make a big luau.

http://www.alohatoystore.com/images/a-luau.jpg

 

[izoid]

Wanting you to answer his genuine question is hostile and means he has a bone to pick? Sheesh.

It is because he is here to ask questions, not answer them. His attempts to convert us fall flat when he has to start answering the questions.

 

[Pharos963]

2nd Adam? why won’t you reply?

 

[guanophore]

I’m going to try my best to stay on the thread topic only.

Is that why you threw out baseless accusations you were unable to support with facts, then when confronted, ran for cover under your “off topic” screen?

Is Christ sufficient to get you to stop that?

 

[2nd_Adam]

Is that why you threw out baseless accusations you were unable to support with facts, then when confronted, ran for cover under your “off topic” screen?

Is Christ sufficient to get you to stop that?

Okay Guan,

You know the historic issues. Let’s stick with what caused the Protestant Reformation and our mutally exclusive views of justification. Are we justified by the perfect righteousness of Christ or not?