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Rocket_Man
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I agree, God does love us into existence, eternally. So you are saying that you don’t know where you recieved this love for Christ, it was just there?
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PRmerger
Guest
You’re mixing metaphors, Adam. Yes, you are God’s child, through your baptism, but to the degree that you have separated yourself from His Body, the Church, is the degree to which you are disjoined to Him.
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PRmerger
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PRmerger
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I’m curious about this question that’s being proferred to Catholics about the “hour they first believed”.
Why is that important? Is there a Scripture verse that tell us it’s important to know the first time you willed to love Him? I’m not familiar with any verses that say this, but I’d sure like to see one–that would certainly explain this peculiar line of thinking.
Why is that important? Is there a Scripture verse that tell us it’s important to know the first time you willed to love Him? I’m not familiar with any verses that say this, but I’d sure like to see one–that would certainly explain this peculiar line of thinking.
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2nd_Adam
Guest
Of course you understand we are talking about a baptism in which is done by God and not the ones in which are conducted by our Pastors and Priests, correct?
Sola Scriptura has its advantages dear sister in Christ. :slapfight:I Will Put My Spirit Within You
“Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord God: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations to which you came. And I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, and which you have profaned among them. And the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Lord God, when through you I vindicate my holiness before their eyes. I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land. I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. - Ezekiel 36
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. - Rom 6
Alive in Christ
Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him. - col 2
For circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law, but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision. So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? Then he who is physically uncircumcised but keeps the law will condemn you who have the written code and circumcision but break the law. For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God. - rom 2
Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised. - rom 4
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PRmerger
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Huh? All sacraments are done by God. What does that have to do with SS?Of course you understand we are talking about a baptism in which is done by God and not the ones in which are conducted by our Pastors and Priests, correct?
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2nd_Adam
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Can someone be converted to Christ, born from above through faith alone apart from the sacrament of water baptism according to the Catholic Catechism?
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Rocket_Man
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I believe that the burning love in my heart for our Savior, Christ Jesus was a gift.
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PRmerger
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This is what the CCC says:[SIGN] Salvation comes from God alone, [/SIGN]but we recieve the life of faith through the Church; she is our mother.Can someone be converted to Christ, born from above through faith alone apart from the sacrament of water baptism according to the Catholic Catechism?
It is through the Church that we receive faith and new life in Christ by Baptism.
We believe the Church as the mother of our new birth, **and not *in *the Church as if she were the author of our salvation. ** (The Angelic Doctor, Summa)
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izoid
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We were talking about consumationg our relationship with Christ through the Eucharist.How in the heck to you get your view that you were not part of the bride of Christ as a Protestant who knew God and united to Christ until you went through the RCIA classes and became an official member of the Catholic Church with John chapter 6?
Originally Posted by PRmerger
Well, whenever izoid became part of the bride of Christ, he was not able to consummate his relationship with Christ until he received the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (that is, at the Easter Liturgy most likely!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by izoid
Amen brother. What a glorious consummation that was!
Your responce:
Sacred Tradition view only…
THe Eucharist is not tradition, it is fact!
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benidict
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cc1258: the Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. this baptism of blod, like the desire for baptism, bring about the fruits of baptism without being a sacrament. 1259: for cathchumens who die before their baptism, their explicit desire to receive it , together with repentance for their sins, assured them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.Can someone be converted to Christ, born from above through faith alone apart from the sacrament of water baptism according to the Catholic Catechism?
hope this helps brother 2nd. and good morning from hawaii.
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izoid
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I think it was by the grace of God that I was able to see. It was my decision to act upon what I God revealed through His grace.
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PRmerger
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Here’s more from the Catechism!Can someone be converted to Christ, born from above through faith alone apart from the sacrament of water baptism according to the Catholic Catechism?
To become a child in relation to God is the condition for entering the kingdom. For this, we must humble ourselves and become little.[SIGN] Even more: to become “children of God” we must be “born from above” or “born of God”[/SIGN]. Only when Christ is formed in us will the mystery of Christmas be fulfilled in us. Christmas is the mystery of this “marvelous exchange”: 526
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izoid
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Here is your quote Adam, this was you talking.
Let’s rejoice together in our adoption and sonship that we share! I agree that communion; Lord’s supper; Eucharist… is a great means of grace given by God to all His adopted children whom He loves, because we are united to Christ. I believe Protestants and Catholics both understand that they are adopted children of God and the bride of Christ. The real difference IMO is our assurance or lack of assurance as being an eternal adopted child and enternal member of the bride of Christ. Therefore, we have the thread topic of sufficiency of Jesus Christ as to our adoption through propitation.
You see it was actual you that derailed the thread by mentioning the Eucharist and the Bride of Christ. I was simply responding to YOU.
You do this over and over and over Adam. You use terms that have different meaning to Catholics than they do to Protestants and pretend we believe the same thing. Remember, no free passes.
I will hold you accountable each and every time you attempt to do this.
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2nd_Adam
Guest
Aloha to you brother,cc1258: the Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. this baptism of blod, like the desire for baptism, bring about the fruits of baptism without being a sacrament. 1259: for cathchumens who die before their baptism, their explicit desire to receive it , together with repentance for their sins, assured them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.
This is quite the dilemma for Izoid and yourself since I believe you both would say that your were united to Christ by faith as a Protestant, correct? Both of your old Protestants churches reject baptismal regeneration, correct? Therefore, when do you guys think you were born from above, when you first heard the gospel, or when you did the outward sign of water baptism symbolizing the inward reality of being united to Christ by the work of the Spirit?
And one other question, what kind of Hawaiian foods do you like? Can you handle Kailua pork and poi?
Spiritual Blessings in Christ
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. - Ephesians 1
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izoid
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They believe in His presence but not in the same way as Catholics do. THey do not believe in the body, blood, soul and divinty or transubstantiation.
They hold to consubstantiation. An altogether different understanding.
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2nd_Adam
Guest
The sovereignity of man in salvation? Only those who can humble themselves like a little child will be born from above? Does that seem very Pelagius to you sister? I think the Bishop of Hippo would be quite angry with your post.
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benidict
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hi brother 2nd. we are going to find out thursday. ive been eating mainly sushi since i got here.lol! think i will enjoy the pork. and i do vaugley remember poi. should like that too. as to your question, ill be honest. we have an adonza today, do i slept in. let me get a couple more cups of coffee and study your question better and i shall answere, or izoid can answere this as well. peace:grouphug::hug1::harp:
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izoid
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2nd_Adam
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Ah… come on… you’re pulling my leg to conform to the Catholic view of baptismal regeneration. So, how long did you profess Christ before you were water baptised as a Protestant? I professed Christ at 18 years old, but was baptised as a professing believer in my late twenties. I also was baptised (not dedicated) as an infant in a Protestant Church.
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