The goodness of man and the depravity of man is a very important topic which needs its own thread. In crushing the TULIP, if you are able to crush the T in TULIP, then all else falls down like dominos. Come on guys… try to crush the TULIP… I dare you! :flowers::flowers::flowers::flowers: :flowers:
Yes and no…
LOL… you sound pelagius to me!
I am still having trouble with their comment that 1) God only make things that are good and 2) man is evil 3) Only God can make man good with his irresistibly grace 4) so who actually made man.
In Genesis, God created Adam in His image. After the fall, all humanity was created in the image of fallen Adam. Please read Genesis 1 through 5. In additon, please read Romans 5 and 1 Cor 15.
Again, there is no evidence 1st Adam removing his God created will by procreating i.e. Seth.
Please help me understand what you are sharing. I believe all mankind is made in the image of God, but not in the same way as Adam was prior to the fall. We are the broken version of the first Adam, and being transformed into the image of the new Adam by the Spirit of God. We will be made better than the pre-fallen Adam! Reflect on this truth, because it is glorious, by the grace of God, we will be made better than the original (1st Adam).
God made Adam “in the image of God” whom had a free will and intellect. Agreed?
Indeed he did say that. The other thread maxed out too. I know it is a difficult subject, but really! Such lengths! I would think that a proper understanding if the nature of “fallen” Adam would be critical to understanding the sufficiency of grace.
Start the “goodness of man and depravity of man” thread brother! Why do I have to create most of the fun threads?Indeed he did say that. The other thread maxed out too. I know it is a difficult subject, but really! Such lengths! I would think that a proper understanding if the nature of “fallen” Adam would be critical to understanding the sufficiency of grace.
Exactly! So, how is it that all the Saints in Heb. 11, united in 1st Adam (because 2nd Adam had not come yet) were able to have faith,a nd do good deeds? If they were in the flesh, how did they please God? If they were not “in the flesh”, how did they get there, since regeneration was not available?
Start the thread brother!
So in Genesis it says man can tell good from evil so thus he must be able to choose. This is pointed out in Cain and Abel as Abel choice was for good and Cain for evil. Even God tells Cain before he killed Abel that he needed to do better. Did I miss something here because I do not think the 2nd Adam had come yet?
Can you please explain this answer?
You created this thread so that you could answer the question. Now you want us to create another one?
Come on Adam…spit it out. If I remember my Calvinism it had something to do with forward looking faith…faith in what was to come…am I close?
Keep going down the path of Genesis and you will have your answer. Stop when the water gets deep and we can discuss at that point.
Face it, if I left Catholic Answers… you and Guan would miss me!Come on Adam…spit it out. If I remember my Calvinism it had something to do with forward looking faith…faith in what was to come…am I close?
Ok this sounds very Catholic to me. So what specifically is different about “fallen” Adam? The Catholic Church teaches that the image of God in us is “wounded”. If this is the same as what you mean by “broken”, the where does total depravity fit?
I think you missed the point even here it says man can be good and follow God without the 2nd Adams. This is how the Jews made it work might not have been perfect but hey they could still walk with God and thus they must have been good from the start. Thus Calvin’s belief in the corruption of all men from his birth falls by the way side. If this falls the rest of his beliefs fall with it.