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Dancelittleewok
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I misunderstood you. Yes, your story glorifies God by virtue of your baptism. Have you looked into Catholicism since your conversion experience?
"The sufficiency of Grace" a continuation of "The sufficiency of Christ" family debate.
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Tomb54
Guest
In those days Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan.
Immediately coming up out of the water, He saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon Him;
and a voice came out of the heavens: “You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.”
Follow Jesus’s example who thought it was important to be Baptized with water.
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Tomb54
Guest
Yes unfortunately your story is like so many others who were raised Catholic in the 60 to 80’s time frame. Raised Catholic in name only but no good instruction of what the church teaches or what anything means. (this is even if you went to Catholic schools) Parents did not teach their children the faith but left it up to the church and as long as they took you to church on Sunday and to religious instruction they thought their job was done raising their children in the faith. It is no wonder so many children raised catholic are searching as adults but in not looking for the whole Truth and what the early church believed they miss out now on the fullness Jesus left in his church.
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izoid
Guest
I am sorry you are baffled, a careful analysis of the conversation would make it clear to you. You see, when a person engages with Catholics on given topics it is a safe bet that his comments are directed at those people. To put it even simpler, when you talk to a person, it is certain that your comments are directed at that person. Seems pretty easy huh.?
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benedictus2
Guest
How can you be sure they are saved? Are they already dead and you saw them in heaven?
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benedictus2
Guest
Yes indeed because you sinned after your baptism. Nothing new in that.
True.
Your own fault. I know many spiritually alive Catholics.
I used to say to a friend in high school who trying to get me to become “born again”.
Here’s a scenario. We were both asked led to a room and told there is a precious jewel there. She left the room becuase she did not see the precious jewel. I stayed in the room becuase I clearly saw it. And the longer I stayed and remained in the room the clearer I see it.
So I said to her, it wasn’t that the jewel was not there. She wasn’t interested enough to look.
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benedictus2
Guest
Do you know of a certain man called St Augustine? He had quite a “colourful” life. His life story. is in this link http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/synexarion/augustine.html
I mention him here because it seems you think that the only way to be converted is to leave the Church.
He remained for so long in his own willful sinning ways until at last by God’s grace he was converted. He became a priest and a bishop and one of the great doctors of the Church.
Your stories are somewhat similar. As all conversion stories are. It is a turnig away from sin and turning to God.
The one big difference is ownership of sin.
He did not pass the buck and blame the Catholic Church for his folly. You on the other hand want to pass the back for your own sinfulness and blame Christ’s very own Church at that. Which is yet again another sin.
You and you alone committed those sins. Yes, we are all rather miserable creatures mired in sin. The sooner we recognize that and accept that the easier the road to conversion. Once we recognize this, we realize the immensity of God’s love for us.
So don’t pass the buck. It wasn;t the Catholic Church’s that was at fault. It was you. With what you are saying, you are playing Adam and Eve all over again, blaming someone else for their own sins rather than owning up to it and takig full responsibility for it all.
That you had no knowledge of God before you left he Church was truly your own fault. The Gospel was proclaimed to you every Sunday but you refused to listen. Three readings and the psalms every Sunday. What did you do at Church? Can you blame the Church for your own inattentiveness at Mass? Can you blame the Church for your own decision to pursue a life of sin and block your ears when you come to Mass so you will not hear the gospel. Or did you just plain not come to Mass?
It’s funny how your quoting the psalms. The very same Psalms that were proclaimed to you every single Sunday. And if you bothered to go Mass on weekdays you would have heard them to.
The Catholic Church reads, proclaims the Word of God every day of the year at every Mass.
Does your Church do that?
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ryanoneil
Guest
I don’t understand how that relates. Paul isn’t saying anything against baptism. He is chastising them for being in the cult of personality.
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ryanoneil
Guest
Yes the Holy Spirit was recieved before baptism. What does this prove?
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Rocket_Man
Guest
Because I have friends that had the same conversion without catholic baptism, it’s hard to see the infant baptism fitting into the story. The CC claims that baptism regenerates. In my case after infant baptism, I was degenerating, living the life of sin and death under the Holy Law. And I was in living to serve the flesh because I had not been born of God.
Secondly, the justification doctrine leaves the adopted child of Christ without assurance. I don’t know how you can read scripture without sensing the security that is in Jesus Christ.
When I was received into the loving arms of our Lord, Jesus Christ, it didn’t come with any strings attached. He didn’t say that He would take me only if I promised to agree to "go sin no more”. I knew who I was, for the Living Word had showed it to me. I was lazy, sinful, and selfish. I was King! Knowing who I was and how I had lived previously, how could I ever uphold any commitment to try to start back over and live a life without sin if something inside me didn’t change too? And His answer to that question was His promise to give me new heart and help.
And it is in this new heart that I now live. A heart that gives all Glory to God for what He has done. A heart that knows that it is Him that is leading me out to green pastures. A heart that sings praises and worships Jesus Christ, the King of Glory. And it is in this new heart that I draw close to Him and talk to Him like a father speaks to his son. And it is in this Spirit that He teaches me His ways, His love, and Holiness.
So when I look at the doctrine of Justification in the CC. I see the workings of old sin and law. Not much different than the old covenant. You sin, you repent, and hopefully you don’t sin a mortal one and die before you get a chance to repent and end up in purgatory. And if you really screw it up too much, then your sure to end up in hell.
I know that all my sin is forever washed away. Do I still sin? Yes! Do I repent? Yes! Can I ever out sin God’s grace? No! So if I can’t out sin His grace, then why continue to live a life unpleasing to him? What reward is there in any of that? Because everything else inside me, that is my new heart, is responding to God’s callings. So when He says “Work out your own salvation” it isn’t for working righteous deeds so that I can hopefully get to heaven someday, instead He’s encouraging through this new calling ,“to run with it”, “chase it “ and to “pursue it”.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
Hmm…
John 15
10If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.
Luke 12
45 "But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time to come back.’ Suppose he begins to beat the other servants. Suppose he feeds himself. And suppose he drinks until he gets drunk. 46 The master of that servant will come back on a day the servant doesn’t expect him. He will return at an hour the servant doesn’t know. Then the master will cut him to pieces. He will send him to the place where unbelievers go.
Matthew 10:22 "And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.
Matthew 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father.”
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Rocket_Man
Guest
Do you not think that when I stood dead before a Holy God that I didn’t know that I was solely responsible for my sin? Did I blame it on the CC. I tell you “NO”
The question at hand was “Why was I that way?” if I had been regenerated through CC baptism.
I have lived and experienced regeneration since I was 29, I know what it is. I know what it does. I am living it. It’s not what I had beforehand.
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Rocket_Man
Guest
Read the story and understand it!
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
Understand the story!
What gives you the right to ignore the teachings of the bible?
It is not wise, my friend.
More for you to ponder:
Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.
Romans 2
** 6God “will give to each person according to what he has done.”** 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.
Matt 25
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37"Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40"The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
41"Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44"They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45"He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
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Rocket_Man
Guest
Where have I ignored the teachings of the Bible?
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
You deny the need to pick up your cross and follow Jesus.
You seem to think this is optional.
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Rocket_Man
Guest
Where?
"I know that all my sin is forever washed away. Do I still sin? Yes! Do I repent? Yes! Can I ever out sin God’s grace? No! So if I can’t out sin His grace, then why continue to live a life unpleasing to him? What reward is there in any of that? Because everything else inside me, that is my new heart, is responding to God’s callings. So when He says “Work out your own salvation” it isn’t for working righteous deeds so that I can hopefully get to heaven someday, instead He’s encouraging through this new calling ,“to run with it”, “chase it “ and to “pursue it”.
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tweetymom
Guest
You haven’t brother. you are indeed a child of God.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
Perhaps I am mistaken, but when I read the above paragraph it seems to state that your one time salvation experience guarantees that you will go to heaven.
Is this what you believe?
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Rocket_Man
Guest
It’s by God’s grace that I wrote.
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