"The sufficiency of Grace" a continuation of "The sufficiency of Christ" family debate.

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And the grace that was working it me, is the same grace that has saved thousands of believers not baptized Catholic.
Indeed it is. God is not confined by the sacraments. They are a sure means by which we can access grace, and He promises to come to us in them, but He is not confined to them.

If you have answered this, please pardon me as I missed it. What brings you here to CAF?
 
We are united to Him in baptism, as we are buried with Him in His death. If you think that saved person’s don’t fall back into a life of sin, you are misinformed. I agree, it is incompatible with Christ. That is why, if they return to the world after first having been enlightened, there remains no sacrifice. One who receives Christ, then rejects Him, has no where else to turn. “To whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life”.
I never said that they cannot fall back into sin. But they are no longer bent towards sin because Christ is their new master. It is incompatible with everything Christ is.
 
If you have answered this, please pardon me as I missed it. What brings you here to CAF?
***Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.

Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.

Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee***.
 
***Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.

Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.

Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee***.
Ah, Psalm 51. That’s one of my favorite Psalms. Are you here to converted us Catholics to Christ? Do you think Christ can’t be found in Catholicism?
 
***Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.

Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.

Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee***.
It appears that you are trying to convert Catholics, am I reading you correctly?
 
That is why, if they return to the world after first having been enlightened, there remains no sacrifice. One who receives Christ, then rejects Him, has no where else to turn. “To whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life”.
Don’t make this too complicated.

Anyone who is enlightened that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and has a spiritual understanding of the work of Christ through his shed blood on the cross, and then rejects that gift, then there is nothing else under heaven that can save him. Nothing!
 
***Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.

Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.

Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee***.
Catholic Answer forums are here for us to help share the Truth of Christ’s Apostolic Church with our separated bretheren and members of other faiths who are interested in knowing what we believe.Carlan
 
It appears that you are trying to convert Catholics, am I reading you correctly?
I just started reading into this thread, so please bear with me…
I just read what you wrote here and it simply baffled me. How low is your esteem of your own religion that you assume that this is directed towards you?
Not everybody on this board actually is a Christian.

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.

In Him,
Janet
 
Ah, Psalm 51. That’s one of my favorite Psalms. Are you here to converted us Catholics to Christ? Do you think Christ can’t be found in Catholicism?
It is one of my favorites as well, but sometimes it’s hard to lift one above any other. I’m am here to tell others my story and learn how this story is applicable in the CC.
 
I just started reading into this thread, so please bear with me…
I just read what you wrote here and it simply baffled me. How low is your esteem of your own religion that you assume that this is directed towards you?
Not everybody on this board actually is a Christian.

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.

In Him,
Janet
one of the posters asked Rocket why he was visiting CA and we were simply asking what he meant by his reply, Carlan
 
It is one of my favorites as well, but sometimes it’s hard to lift one above any other. I’m am here to tell others my story and learn how this story is applicable in the CC.
How is your personal experience applicable to the Church?
 
Did you think that a person who had become a Christian could not go back to living in the flesh? When you read Rom 7, do you think that Paul does not describe himself here? Why do you think Paul says “I pummel my body, and subdue it”?
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
 
Yes, I know. Do you think your experiences mean that all Catholics are spiritually dead and must leave the Church to find Christ like you did?
Absoluely Not, If Jesus Christ is glorified in the Body, then how could one argue with the Spirit?
 
Absoluely Not, If Jesus Christ is glorified in the Body, then how could one argue with the Spirit?
How do you feel about the others here whom had vastly different experiences compared yours with the sacraments?
 
Did you think that a person who had become a Christian could not go back to living in the flesh?
Do Christians sin? Yes, but they respond with sorrow and repentance.

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:”

Unsaved people live lives of habitual sin, there is no sorrow and repentance. Those that live their lives doing sin, habitually and continuously serving sin are children of the devil. Those that are in Christ, cannot habitually and continuously serve sin, because this incompatible with the work of Christ, “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners” and incompatible with His ministry, and incompatible with the deposit left in believers heart.

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
 
How do you feel about the others here whom had vastly different experiences compared yours with the sacraments?
I thought I answered that. If the sacraments glorify Jesus Christ, then whom am I to argue with the Spirit.

Do you think my story, glorifies Jesus Christ?
 
Yes, the very same nourishment you never wanted while in the Church. Ya know, God gave us a funny thing called Free Will. 🤷 Please stop blaming the Church for your own failings.
My free will was to serve the sin I loved because I was a child of the devil. I take full responsibilty for my sin then and now.
 
My free will was to serve the sin I loved because I was a child of the devil. I take full responsibilty for my sin then and now.
John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

John 6
53Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.

Matt 18
17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
 
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