"The sufficiency of Grace" a continuation of "The sufficiency of Christ" family debate.

[izoid]

Study Bibles wiil have notes according to the particular kind of theology that it promotes. Would you use the Mormon KJV Bible with Joseph Smith notes? I don’t think you would want the New Geneva Study Bible, or Reformed Study Bible would you, unless you want to be a Catholic Calvinist. I’m glad that we are in agreement that we are justified by faith.

And I think this is the reason that we are all here. Only one of these interpretations can be right. We can not have conflicting interpretations and have them all be right. Just as Mormonism is not right, either Calvinism or Catholicism is also incorrect. They are two vastly different systems of theology. I guess we need to determine which one carries the most credibility since both can be supported by taking certain verses at the exclusion of others. The key is, which one can put together a complete theology using the entirety of the Bible as well as historical evidences of understanding. I find comfort in knowing the Catholic Church can claim that.

 

[tweetymom]

Unfortunately, you begin many of your statements with IMO (In MY opinion) – instead of “God has this to say . . .”
This is the basis of your spiritual pride – it’s Adam’s way – NOT God’s way.

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Regardless of what lukewarm, would-be Catholics like Tweetymom have to say – true Catholics don’t place the Church ABOVE Jesus – he IS the Church – along with us, his Body. He made this perfectly clear in Acts 9:4-5, as I’ve already shown you.

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Your disdain for His Church speaks volumes about your ignorance of the Scriptures. You quote a lot of passages, yet have a complete lack of knowledge of what you’re pasting into your replies.

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As I’ve stated before, Paul spoke well of people like you and Tweetymom:
“In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures" (2 Pet. 3:16).

Thank you elvis , Pro.!3:3 He who guards his lips guards his soul;.

 

[2nd_Adam]

And I think this is the reason that we are all here. Only one of these interpretations can be right. We can not have conflicting interpretations and have them all be right. Just as Mormonism is not right, either Calvinism or Catholicism is also incorrect. They are two vastly different systems of theology. I guess we need to determine which one carries the most credibility since both can be supported by taking certain verses at the exclusion of others. The key is, which one can put together a complete theology using the entirety of the Bible as well as historical evidences of understanding. I find comfort in knowing the Catholic Church can claim that.

I will continue to proclaim the bridegroom and you will continue to proclaim the bride.

 

[Cinette]

Thanks for the compliment Izoid brother! I always posted that I am truly catholic! I’m a Calvinist catholic hybrid just like Augustine and Paul… to the praise of God’s glorious sovereign grace.

“a Calvinist catholic hybrid” catholic with a small c. OK but Augustine and Paul were Catholics.

Cinette

 

[2nd_Adam]

Originally Posted by elvisman
Unfortunately, you begin many of your statements with IMO (In MY opinion) – instead of “God has this to say . . .”
This is the basis of your spiritual pride – it’s Adam’s way – NOT God’s way.

Regardless of what lukewarm, would-be Catholics like Tweetymom have to say – true Catholics don’t place the Church ABOVE Jesus – he IS the Church – along with us, his Body. He made this perfectly clear in Acts 9:4-5, as I’ve already shown you.

Your disdain for His Church speaks volumes about your ignorance of the Scriptures. You quote a lot of passages, yet have a complete lack of knowledge of what you’re pasting into your replies.

As I’ve stated before, Paul spoke well of people like you and Tweetymom:
“In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures" (2 Pet. 3:16).

Thank you elvis , Pro.!3:3 He who guards his lips guards his soul;.

Hi Tweetymom,

I am rejoicing with you that God has granted to you to suffer for Christ’s sake. What a great privilege that you have been blessed with!

For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake, - Philippians 1:29

 

[tweetymom]

Hi Tweetymom,

I am rejoicing with you that God has granted to you to suffer for Christ’s sake. What a great privilege that you have been blessed with!

For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake, - Philippians 1:29

Thats why I always say thank you. I am very blessed and it is my privilege to suffer for Christ. So like I said awhile back keep those barbs going all the more I love Jesus. God Bless you Adam and I know that you have done a lot of suffering for Christs sake,

 

[guanophore]

There is certainly common grace in which the righteous and unrighteous receive. Every day of life is a gift from God. In addition, since all have sinned, God is merciful and graceful to continue to give men life apart from immediate judgment. When you say God has poured out His grace upon all men, what kind of grace are you speaking about? Ryan makes a distinction between grace received by the elect of God and withheld from the non-elect. We are all born into different circumstances and privileges based on the grace of God. We are born into different economic status, natural intelligent, appearance and looks, etc… all by the grace of God.

This being the case, why would God be prevented from giving grace to a Muslim who was among the elect? Do you think there have never been Muslims that found life in Christ?

 

[guanophore]

I think that’s a pretty accurate statement on how I see things.

And you thought I wasn’t listening. .

 

[guanophore]

Did you find my response to Cornelius with my posting on it. If so, plese quote it and we can continue on Cornelius. Are you saying the Muslim will believe in the Biblical Christ and receive the gospel when preached to? Or are you saying the Muslim will be saved apart from hearing the gospel?

Either one could happen, but for the sake of this discussion, I was referring to the latter. No, I must have missed your post. I thought I had read them all. I will go back.

 

[2nd_Adam]

This being the case, why would God be prevented from giving grace to a Muslim who was among the elect? Do you think there have never been Muslims that found life in Christ?

When a Muslim finds life in Christ, then by definition… they become a Christian! How can you find life in Christ without being a Christian?

 

[guanophore]

 We are declared righteous at the point of conversion because the righteousness that God demands is a perfect righteousness found in Christ alone.  We can also know this through the other 11 or 12 Epistles of Paul too. Jesus also bring this truth to light too. Of course we both believe that God is making us righteous, but **nobody achieves that perfect righteousness of this side of glory.  **

How do you account for the parents of John the Baptist?

Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and statutes of the Lord.

How does this testimony square with your assertion that it was impossible?

 

[guanophore]

Ryan is the missing link…

Somehow I knew that!

 

[izoid]

I will continue to proclaim the bridegroom and you will continue to proclaim the bride.

This statement is evidence of your ignorance towards Catholicism, either that or your disdain for those who think differently than you.

 

[coracobb]

Study Bibles wiil have notes according to the particular kind of theology that it promotes. Would you use the Mormon KJV Bible with Joseph Smith notes? I don’t think you would want the New Geneva Study Bible, or Reformed Study Bible would you, unless you want to be a Catholic Calvinist. I’m glad that we are in agreement that we are justified by faith.

Hi Adam,

Yes I am aware that notes promote a particular theology. All the Bibles I named have a different viewpoint even though some are Catholic. What can I say, I love to read and lately I’ve gained a much deeper understanding of Scripture and Catholic teachings. No I would not use a Mormon KJV Bible with Joseph Smith notes. I don’t know anything about the new Geneva Study Bible, or Reformed Study Bible. I don’t know what a Calvinist Catholic believes, please tell me. I am very curious since I was once told not to read Scofield since it was Calvinistic, that I would be mislead. I was also taught that all Catholics are bound for Hell and that they worship Statues. I know better now. I hope to get info in Calvinistic Catholics soon.

God Bless

Cora

 

[2nd_Adam]

How do you account for the parents of John the Baptist?

Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and statutes of the Lord.

How does this testimony square with your assertion that it was impossible?

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God because we are all made in the image of fallen Adam, including Mary who rejoiced in God Her savior because she knew that she was a sinner. Original sin is real.

Mary’s Song of Praise: The Magnificat

And Mary said,

“My soul magnifies the Lord,
and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,

 

[2nd_Adam]

Somehow I knew that!

I’ll be a Calvinist catholic, and you can be a Catholic Calvinist!

 

[2nd_Adam]

This statement is evidence of your ignorance towards Catholicism, either that or your disdain for those who think differently than you.

Here my proof with what I posted. How many times have you proclaimed the bride to me, and how many times have you proclaimed the bridegroom to me?

 

[guanophore]

I don’t understand the big deal about Cornelius. I was reading this account by a Centurion. Is it similar to Cornelius?

The Faith of a Centurion

5 When he entered Capernaum, a centurion came forward to him, appealing to him, 6 “Lord, my servant is lying paralyzed at home, suffering terribly.” 7 And he said to him, “I will come and heal him.” 8 But the centurion replied, “Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof, but only say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I too am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. And I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes, and to my servant, [3] ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” 10 When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel [4] have I found such faith. 11 I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, 12 while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 13 And to the centurion Jesus said, “Go; let it be done for you as you have believed.” And the servant was healed at that very moment.- Matthew 7

2nd, given your familiarity with Scripture, I can’t help but think you are avoiding this passage for the sake of this discussion. Is it because it does not fit with your concept of jusitification? Surely your Reformed theologians have figured out a way to parse this pasage consistent with the doctrine! I just am wondering what it is.

Please answer my question. when was Cornelius justified?

 

[2nd_Adam]

Hi Adam,

Yes I am aware that notes promote a particular theology. All the Bibles I named have a different viewpoint even though some are Catholic. What can I say, I love to read and lately I’ve gained a much deeper understanding of Scripture and Catholic teachings. No I would not use a Mormon KJV Bible with Joseph Smith notes. I don’t know anything about the new Geneva Study Bible, or Reformed Study Bible. I don’t know what a Calvinist Catholic believes, please tell me. I am very curious since I was once told not to read Scofield since it was Calvinistic, that I would be mislead. I was also taught that all Catholics are bound for Hell and that they worship Statues. I know better now. I hope to get info in Calvinistic Catholics soon.

God Bless

Cora

A Scofield Study Bible is a dispenstational Arminian Study Bible. It is not a Calvinistic Study Bible; I used to own one. Okay, if you want to be a Catholic Calvinist… please purchase this study Bible.

ligonier.org/publishing_studybible.php

 

[2nd_Adam]

2nd, given your familiarity with Scripture, I can’t help but think you are avoiding this passage for the sake of this discussion. Is it because it does not fit with your concept of jusitification? Surely your Reformed theologians have figured out a way to parse this pasage consistent with the doctrine! I just am wondering what it is.

Please answer my question. when was Cornelius justified?

No, not at all. Please post the entire account of Cornelius…