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tweetymom
Guest
imo amen
"The sufficiency of Grace" a continuation of "The sufficiency of Christ" family debate.
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tweetymom
Guest
One more stab to Jesus God Bless
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elvisman
Guest
Rom. 3:23** is usually cited by Protestants who don’t understand the test and have twisted the Scriptures to their own destruction (2 Pet. 3:16).**
How about babies or toddlers below the age of reason? What about those who are mentally challenged and may not have full use of their intellect and will? What about Jesus? In this passage, St. Paul is actually quoting Psalm 14, where it says, "The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God. They are corrupt…there is none that does good.’” Later in the same Psalm, we hear that “God is present in the company of the “righteous.”
St. Paul was using inclusive language, as was the Psalmist. This would be similar to somebody saying that “everybody in town” came to the parade. The mass of mankind is what is being referred to in these passages.
And, what of the Reformers? Were they wrong about this and right about everything else? If they were wrong about** this**** – what makes you think that they were right about the rest?**
The Church NEVER said that Mary wasn’t saved by the grace of God – she was indeed.
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elvisman
Guest
**If you consider Scriptural admonitions to be, “insults” - then you have exposed yourself as one who does not understand the Word of God.
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tweetymom
Guest
I understand the word of God better than you know. Like I said I consider anything that proceeds out of you mouth to be an insult to Jesus, so God Bless and keep up the good work. Cause I am happy in the Lord no matter what you say.:extrahappy:
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ryanoneil
Guest
Of course it is not supposed to happen that way, but it often does. Adoption does not insure final perseverance. Paul clearly states that like the Jews (who are adopted children of God) Christians who are also adopted can be cut off. And he says they can be grafted back in. Read it again. It is there in black and white. Here are other examples.
Therefore, whoever thinks he is standing secure should take care not to fall. (1 Cor 10:12)
So you are no longer a slave but a child, and if a child then also an heir, through God. At a time when you did not know God, you became slaves to things that by nature are not gods; but now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and destitute elemental powers? Do you want to be slaves to them all over again? (Gal 4:7-9)
For freedom Christ set us free; so stand firm and do not submit again to the yoke of slavery. It is I, Paul, who am telling you that if you have yourselves circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you. Once again I declare to every man who has himself circumcised that he is bound to observe the entire law. You are separated from Christ, you who are trying to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.(Gal 5:1-4)
And you who once were alienated and hostile in mind because of evil deeds he has now reconciled in his fleshly body through his death, to present you holy, without blemish, and irreproachable before him, provided that you persevere in the faith, firmly grounded, stable, and not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, am a minister. (Col 1:21-23)
Paul teaches that we can be in Christ, then be severed from Him and fall away from God’s grace. They cannot be severed from something unless they were previously connected to it. There are countless more examples. One of the best examples in my opinion is the prodigal son. He is a genuine sons of the Father, who then leave home and dies, and who then return and be described as “alive again.”
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2nd_Adam
Guest
And you who once were alienated and hostile in mind because of evil deeds he has now reconciled in his fleshly body through his death, to present you holy, without blemish, and irreproachable before him, provided that you persevere in the faith, firmly grounded, stable, and not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, am a minister. (Col 1:21-23)
Paul teaches that we can be in Christ, then be severed from Him and fall away from God’s grace. They cannot be severed from something unless they were previously connected to it. There are countless more examples. One of the best examples in my opinion is the prodigal son. He is a genuine sons of the Father, who then leave home and dies, and who then return and be described as “alive again.”
Here’s a challenge for you in regards to moving from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light, back to the kingdom of darkness, and again back to the kingdom of light. Sonship and adoption is permanent. Do you see earthly parents who undo their adoptions based on behavior issues? How much more will our perfectly Heavenly Father secure our adoption based on the behavior of our Elder Brother?.
Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits. For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.
Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things—things that belong to salvation. For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do. And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness to have the full assurance of hope until the end, so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises. - Hebrews 6
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izoid
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Like when he insinuates that I am a liar, that I never REALLY attended a Calivinistic church? Or that I am not really a Catholic, that I am just pretending? Much more Christ like, huh.
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izoid
Guest
We ALL want to know when was Cornelius saved? Pretty simply question. I gave my summary of Acts 10, now it is time for you to give us yours.
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izoid
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Tweety now thinks she is Jesus.
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2nd_Adam
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The account is Acts 10 through 11.
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izoid
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I am well aware of that. Actually, I already gave an answer. Why won’t you answer the question? I thought this was all about finding the truth.
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2nd_Adam
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By your own definition, Calvinism is a Reformed Church. A Reformed Church is one who adheres to the historical Protestant Confessionals like the Westminster Confession of Faith or the London Baptist Confession of 1689. The list of the churches that you attended do not appear to fit those criterias. But, please correct me if I am wrong.Like when he insinuates that I am a liar, that I never REALLY attended a Calivinistic church? Or that I am not really a Catholic, that I am just pretending? Much more Christ like, huh.
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2nd_Adam
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I never saw your answer in regards to the two Centurions. Please repost it.
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izoid
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No Adam, it is your definition. Many churches adhere to Calvin’s theology, not just Reformed.
The first thing I was given at MacArthur’s church was the Westminster Confession. MacArthur considers himself a Calvinist, I gave you the link to the article.
FBC was probably a hyper-Calvinist church. Still, I was firmly rooted in Calvin’s theology.
So, are you trying to say that I can not know what Calvinism teaches because I didn’t attend a Reformed Church?
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Cr8ton
Guest
Calvin never believed in the immaculate conception so it is wrong to refer to the “reformers” as believing in it. As he is considered on of the reformers.
Anyhow, I also would like to know where you make the distinction of a “protestant twisting the scriptures to their destruction”. It sure seems as if you’ve passed that judgment as me since I brought that particular scripture up. Would you say my end is destruction (it sure feels that you’ve made that judgment) since I supposedly twisted this scripture to mean something that doesn’t fit your Catholic lenses?
I would hope you would not make such a judgment of someone else’s salvation, but it seems as if you have already done so with other protestants.
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izoid
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The question was: when was Cornelius saved?
We are discussing Cornelius, not 2 centurions.
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guanophore
Guest
Originally Posted by izoid
I asked this earlier in the thread but have not gotten an answer:
"izoid:
"izoid:
"izoid:
Why does God command all to come to repentance, and imply that all can be saved, when it is not the case?
So far, you have avoided this question by implying that asking it is being “rebellious clay”. However, no one here is saying that God does not have the right to create people for perdition if he so desires. He is the Creator, and we are the Creatures. I am trying to understand the meaning behind God commanding people to do something (repent and believe) that he does not want them to do. Can you help with that?
When Did Cornelius come to repentance?
I asked this earlier in the thread but have not gotten an answer:
"izoid:
So His grace is insufficient for those who will not come to Him in an effectual way?
"izoid:
God’s grace is insufficient for those who are not in Christ. They are condemned already, so His grace is insufficient to change that?
"izoid:
According to Calvanism, it seems to me that, since the rest are “children of wrath”, that He does not intend to extend grace to them. this is the part that confuses me. Why do so many scriptures say He was sent for the whole world, but was really only sent for a remnant?
Why does God command all to come to repentance, and imply that all can be saved, when it is not the case?
So far, you have avoided this question by implying that asking it is being “rebellious clay”. However, no one here is saying that God does not have the right to create people for perdition if he so desires. He is the Creator, and we are the Creatures. I am trying to understand the meaning behind God commanding people to do something (repent and believe) that he does not want them to do. Can you help with that?
When Did Cornelius come to repentance?
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ryanoneil
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I never said anything about being un-adopted. I am talking about an adopted child being cut off or taken back. That is very different from undoing an adoption.
The prodigal son left his fathers house. He was as good as dead. After he repented he came back and he was alive again. He was always the fathers son.
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2nd_Adam
Guest
I’m very familiar with Pastor MacArthur’s transition to Calvinism. I used to attend his Dad’s church in which his dad Jack MacArthur preached. It’s definitely not a Reformed Church. One of the most influential books for Pastor MacArthur is a book written by the Puritan pastor Theologian Thomas Watson called “A Body of Divinity” based on the Westminster Shorter Catechism. Granted, Pastor MacArthur fits better in the Reformed Camp than the Arminian Protestant Camp. However, I would not consider him to be fully Reformed. He is quite the dispensational - Calvinist hybrid. One of my best friends attended the Masters Seminary. I know many pastors who go to the Masters Pastors conference every year. Before I moved, I attended a PCA Church near Westminster West Seminary in which the main pastor was also a Hebrew Professor at Westminster Seminary. There’s a big difference between a Reformed Church and Grace Community Church.
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