The Treatment of Gays

[CatholicGuy22]

**As a faithful Orthodox Christian… I agree with every single thing you have said here.

I am most disturbed by the Roman Catholic practice of denial of the Eucharist - Holy Communion to homosexual people.

The sin is to be sincerely repented of, but the individual is not to be shunned or isolated as Roman Catholics do - by denial of the healing, restorative and redemptive sacrament of the Eucharist.

Christ did not do this - he first healed then asked people to go and sin no more.

This applies to us all… not just to heterosexuals.**

I am worried about something even worse than homosexuals rieceving Holy Commuinion. That is the average joe catholic that thinks communion is just blessed wine and bread. Many are unaware that you must be in a state of grace to recieve Jesus. Many have unconfessed sins on there soul and still recieve Holy Communion. We must realy tell people that Holy Comunion is realy Jesus and that they must be clean to recieve him. I blame this problem on poor teaching of the catechism to our youth. Instead of talking about moses and noah(who are great by the way) We must teach our kids about the church and it’s doctrine.

Peace and Good will !!!

 

[hellopeople]

I think, Bob, that the uncomfortableness at least on my part is how to handle the elephant in the room; not for a person simply with SSA; SSA in itself is not sinful, but for those who are openly in a homosexual relationship or a heterosexual fornicating relationship. I know a person or two in our parish with a SSA, and couldn’t give a rat’s you-know-what.

I think rather it’s a struggle with on one hand whether to say anything about another’s sinful relationship and if so, what to say without sounding judgmental and simply being quiet. Perhaps this is a struggle of the ages, how to correctly as St. Paul urges us to do, how to correct our brothers and sisters in a spririt of Love and concern.

If you are telling someone that their relationship is sinful you are going to sound judgmental because you are BEING judgmental.

 

[BobObob]

They’re destructive in different ways. An adulterous act may not pose the same risk to health as a homosexual act.

I think it should be noted that the activity that makes sex between men dangerous in terms of health, anal sex, is just as dangerous when done by heterosexuals. However, statistically, homosexuals are much more likely to engage in this and other dangerous behaviors than others.

Health reasons are not why homosexual activity is wrong (which I’m sure you are aware). The main reason why sodomy is wrong is because it is sexual activity that is not open to life, which makes it sinful for the same reason using contraception is sinful.

But the severity of that punishment is not necessarily the same either.

It is my understanding that the main suffering of the damned, that of being deprived of God, is shared equally by all the damned. Sure, some sins are graver than other sins and have graver punishment, but for the most part, I don’t see much need to distinguish between sins that both lead to eternal damnation. If someone commits a mortal sin they need to repent, be forgiven by God and others, and need to be accepted with Christian love (which is love that is often withheld from those with SSA).

 

[miguel]

I think it should be noted that the activity that makes sex between men dangerous in terms of health, anal sex, is just as dangerous when done by heterosexuals. However, statistically, homosexuals are much more likely to engage in this and other dangerous behaviors than others.

Health reasons are not why homosexual activity is wrong (which I’m sure you are aware).

I think this last statement is debatable. The 5th Commandment requires us to take proper care of our health. People break this commandment when they engage in behavior that is dangerous to their own and others health.

The main reason why sodomy is wrong is because it is sexual activity that is not open to life, which makes it sinful for the same reason using contraception is sinful.

I agree that both acts are not open to life and both separate the unitive from the procreative.

 

[BobObob]

I think this last statement is debatable. The 5th Commandment requires us to take proper care of our health. People break this commandment when they engage in behavior that is dangerous to their own and others health.

I’m saying the health risk is not what makes sexual activity between two people of the sex intrinsically evil. Homosexual activity that is not a considerable health risk is still intrinsically evil, because the health risk is not the reason why it is intrinsically sinful. The health risk would be a secondary evil that increases the evil of an act that is intrinsically evil for other reasons.

Homosexual activity is sinful even with no health risk, but a greater health risk would further increase the evil of the activity.

 

[miguel]

I’m saying the health risk is not what makes sexual activity between two people of the sex intrinsically evil. Homosexual activity that is not a considerable health risk is still intrinsically evil, because the health risk is not the reason why it is intrinsically sinful. The health risk would be a secondary evil that increases the evil of an act that is intrinsically evil for other reasons.

Homosexual activity is sinful even with no health risk, but a greater health risk would further increase the evil of the activity.

Bob, I think we’re pretty much on the same page. Have you ever heard Arlo Guthrie’s Alice’s Restaraunt? He’s signing about being arrested for littering. He’s on the bench next to “mother rapers, father stabbers, father rapers…” and they ask him “kid, what ya in for?” and he tells em “litterin…” “and they all move away from me on the bench” “and creatin a disturbance” “and they all move back next to me on the bench”.

 

[miguel]

He’s signing…

Not signing, singing.

 

[Lapin_Lascif]

Perhaps this is a struggle of the ages, how to correctly as St. Paul urges us to do, how to correct our brothers and sisters in a spririt of Love and concern.

Aw ! How sweet of you, to ‘correct’ others in the spirit of Love and concern.

I, for one, am deeply touched.

At this juncture we might want to pause and reflect on how Mother Church used to ‘correct’ others.
I am not sure if the tightening of the thumbscrews and the burning alive of homosexuals was also done in “the spirit of Love”.

I say that Catholics have come a long way in telling other people how to live their lives; from murdering and torturing them for victim-less ‘crimes’ to merely blathering on about ‘loving the sinner and hating the sin’, or some other nauseating bit of casuistry.

I think this is progress, of a sort.

Lapin

PS. Can someone explain to me again why the Creator of the Universe holds such a stern view of men who enjoy rubbing their willies together ?
Alas,no doubt it is due to my sinful nature that I fail to see why anyone, celestial or terrestrial, can get so worked up about such a thing.

 

[raaucoin]

After 25+ yrs of being “OUT” personally and professionally, I have returned to the church and now live happily chaste. When I went to speak to my pastor about my past, present and hopes for future opportunities for parish lay ministry, he was VERY SUPPORTIVE. But he did caution me not to try to much at once. To sort of ease into things and allow other people to get to know me first. As a woman of faith and faithful to God and Church. I heeded his advice.

The opportunity in small groups has come up in which I have shared the fact that I am a recent “re-vert”, that I haven’t always lived according to church teaching. But I haven’t had the need to give any details. My friends in the parish know there was “something” in my past, but they don’t seem to care about that. They care and share my joy that I’ve come home. If someone asked for specifics, depending on the relationship I have with them- I may or may not choose to disclose any more.
Yes I have SSA. But I have no intentions of ever living that out again. So why would I need to announce that, or introduce myself with that. Honestly, If anyone said to me,“Hi, I’m Joe and I have a propensity to lie, or cheat or steal…” I would probably be wary of that person too. And also- again - if I don’t have an intimate(friendship) with someone, why do I need to tell them about my personal business?

I’m sorry a poster on this thread hasn’t been well received. Possibly through no fault of his. But generally, if I am not well received in any situation I stop and ask myself if there’s something I need to do differently.

 

[miguel]

Yes I have SSA. But I have no intentions of ever living that out again. So why would I need to announce that, or introduce myself with that. Honestly, If anyone said to me,“Hi, I’m Joe and I have a propensity to lie, or cheat or steal…” I would probably be wary of that person too. And also- again - if I don’t have an intimate(friendship) with someone, why do I need to tell them about my personal business?

Exactly. Sin is something to be ashamed of. I think we would rather think good thoughts about people. In general, blabbing your personal business all over your parish isn’t conducive to that. I think it’s better to save this junk for confession, or if absolutely necessary, close friends who can keep a secret. BTW, welcome back.

 

[jrgiancola]

A homosexual should have the same moral obligations as any heterosexual. The requirements should be the same for both groups. Sex should be limited to those who are married, which is the main :thumbsup:reason that homosexuals should be permitted to marry.

 

[hellopeople]

A homosexual should have the same moral obligations as any heterosexual. The requirements should be the same for both groups. Sex should be limited to those who are married, which is the main :thumbsup:reason that homosexuals should be permitted to marry.

I don’t think the Catholics are going to like this response.

 

[edwest2]

I suggest you read this Vatican document which deals with this issue:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

God bless,
Ed