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inJESUS
Guest
what do you mean?
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morning_star777
Guest
its strange mr kadaveri,that i have asked same question in "the major flaws of islam"i also gave the reference of sura5:116. mr planten is also a muslim who replied me that 1st century christians worshiped marry as god.but he didn’t give any historical reference.&u told that its not trinity,its idolatery.now will you tell me pls why the 2 ppl reply this in different way?if u r right then can you tell me except trinity when christian worship idol?
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MH84
Guest
You said this:
You have said that:
Allah is eternal (one Person)
His Word is eternal (one Person)
His Spirit is eternal (one Person)
You seem to be saying that Allah is God the Father of Christianity. But in Islam Allah is the only, and complete God. So how could you say that Allah is only one of the three Persons of God? Technically, you are saying that Allah is one third of the Christian God.
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inJESUS
Guest
no. Muslims do believe the word of Allah is eternal and uncreated. This makes them believe in 2/3 of the Trinity
the 1/3 is the Holy Spirit. They believe it is Gabriel, though the Quran does not say this, and the hadith differentiate Gabriel and the Spirit ecc.
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Delta2
Guest
See the following Genesis verse
Lets split that verse
And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground
Your body, flesh, terrain, visible
related to second person of Trinity : Jesus - visible manifestation, that acts
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life
The Holy Spirit that animates and maintains everything, the LIFE that animates your body
** and man became a living soul.**
It is YOU, all your databank, your feelings, your conscience, your experiences…everything : IS YOU
IS YOU, YOUR NATURE as a TRIUNITY OF soul + body + spirit
see here :
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=236631
Allah doesn’t preserve your databank, is foolish, is a mirage of the true God and all the mysteries. You die as ONE, you’re finished, KAPUT !!!
Islam is just a distorted view from God, as like the moon
But because He loves You, by His grace He give signals :
- the moon, or whatever, reflects only the True Light
Did you haver saw the tomb of the patriarch Abraham ? it still exists
Do you know that his feet is oriented to Mecca Ka’bah ?
Isn’t this a offense to Islam ? go see by yourself
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Kadaveri
Guest
I’m stepping out of this thread. I really can’t stand the behaviour of some of the posters here any longer, it’s nothing short of despicable. You have no interest in learning and deliberately ignore or avoid having to deal with issues that put the validity of your views into question, and I’m sick of it. Four pages full of disrespect and arrogance is too much for my patience to endure.
May God guide you.
May God guide you.
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thedavidwilson
Guest
Four pages and you never addressed the original post.
Who’s fault is that?
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thedavidwilson
Guest
In Christian theology a soul is the force that animates a living enitiy. My dog has a soul. Trees have a soul. A spirit is a being that does not have shapevolume, and is immortal. A angel is a sprit. The devil is a spirit. God is a spirit but is not a creature (a created thing) like the previous two.
Humans have both spirit and soul. A human’s soul is a spirit and his spirit is a soul. A dog only has a soul so when it dies that is it. When a human (body) dies it will continue on since its soul is imortal.
We are a spririt created to live within a physical body. That is why at the end of the world we will be reunited with a glorified body. That is the only way our spirit/soul can feel “complete” or at home. In heavan we will be completely satisfied since we will be in the precence of God yet we will have the knowledge of not having a body.
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thedavidwilson
Guest
I would suggest muslims read Theology and Sanity by Sheed for explanations of the Trinity and nature of God. Then you can make comparisons to the way things are and what is in the quran. An online copy can be foud here:
katapi.org.uk/TandS/Contents.html
Another good book by Sheed is Theology for Beginners which you can get on amazon.
katapi.org.uk/TandS/Contents.html
Another good book by Sheed is Theology for Beginners which you can get on amazon.
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dolphinlove
Guest
VERY well said InJesus, couldnt have ever done better myself!
:hug1:
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dolphinlove
Guest
Hi Kadaveri,
I dont think there was any disrespect at all on here, the issue is, we have a different understanding of the trinity than you do, and because we dont accept your explanation for it, its what has obviously become too much for you.
I will give you browny points for trying to explain the corrupt quran however, but its as plain as the nose on my face that it does say Christians believe 3 Gods in 1, when this is not the case.
May God guide you to the true meaning of the trinity.
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famdigy
Guest
I’m sorry but the whole concept of the trinity is incoherent and doesn’t make sense. Please don’t be offended dear friends. It’s my personal view and here is why
By definition, the fact that he “needs an equal” makes him lacking or incomplete, which means he is no longer infinite if he is incomplete.
God is free of any need or any dependence on any of His creatures.
Second, how could God be One if He exists with another entity that is equal to him. Are you saying that God the father is a separate entity than Jesus yet they are both one God??
For Agno,
you asked what is the Qur’an’s definition of the trinity, the Qur’ans definition of the trinity is what the Christians believe, that is God is one of three, that is to say the title of “GOD” applies to any one of the three. Hence, the Christians call Jesus God and sometimes call the Father God, and collectivity they are One God. This makes no sense at all, that is why the Christians say the concept of trinity is not something they can solve or understand through reason or scientific method. Any attempt to understand it in any meaningful way is labled as “Questioning God”.
inJESUS, you said
first of all, who are you to decide what He needs and doesn’t need?
By definition, the fact that he “needs an equal” makes him lacking or incomplete, which means he is no longer infinite if he is incomplete.
God is free of any need or any dependence on any of His creatures.
Second, how could God be One if He exists with another entity that is equal to him. Are you saying that God the father is a separate entity than Jesus yet they are both one God??
For Agno,
you asked what is the Qur’an’s definition of the trinity, the Qur’ans definition of the trinity is what the Christians believe, that is God is one of three, that is to say the title of “GOD” applies to any one of the three. Hence, the Christians call Jesus God and sometimes call the Father God, and collectivity they are One God. This makes no sense at all, that is why the Christians say the concept of trinity is not something they can solve or understand through reason or scientific method. Any attempt to understand it in any meaningful way is labled as “Questioning God”.
inJESUS, you said
Not all Muslims believe in in this, you and I had this discussion before.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
Thanks for surrendering.
There is nothing you can do to correct the Quran. 
Quranic Trinity = Allah + Jesus + Mary
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thedavidwilson
Guest
I and all Christians agree. Perhaps it can be better put by saying that the definition of Love requires this relationship. You say this puts limits on God. Well doesn’t saying that God would never manifest Himself as a triunity for the above reason (or any reason) also put a limit on God. Coudl could just as easily manifest himself as my kitchen table. He can do all things.
You might also note that I said most theologians do not accept this proof. While it is a valid explanation (in logical terms) we have no proof that this is the reason why God exists as a Tri-unity.
That is why the concept of the Tri-unity is a revealed concept. The validity of this revelation is based on the validity of the scriptures and sacred tradition which Christ promised would be buided by the Holy Spirit (3rd manifestation of God or 3rd person of the Triunity). Muslims often dismiss this by saying that the scriptures are corrupt yet never give any proof for this. Where is the critical textual evidence that this is ture?
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inJESUS
Guest
Kadaveri,
you presented your points…once and twice…the first time i did not catch what you meant…the second time i did…and i answered back…and i repeat it briefly : refuting the Trinity because of the incarnation and/or Jesus humanity shows another misunderstanding of the Trinity. Adding Mary 3 times regarding Christians is not the Trinity. The Trinity was already known long time before Muhammad. If Allah wanted to refute it, he could have refuted it using the correct formula used by Christians…as simple as this. For example : they disbelieve who say Allah, His Word and His Spirit are One God! Lo, verily Allah is wisdomless and spiritless!
Am a human Kadaveri, and i used the correct forumla, mentioning the Holy Spirit (Not Mary), and mentioning the Wisdom of God, without ever mentioning that Jesus and Mary used to eat food and died like previous prophets because it is IRRELEVENT to the Trinity, and without mentioning partners to God, and without saying that the Wisdom of God makes God insufficient as per Quran.
What the Quran uses is alien to Christian theology that is why Christians do not find one correct representation of it, add to it that Muslims themselves talk about partners and Mary and 3 gods. This , Kadaveri, is hardly the refutation of an all-knowing because it is called confusion for both Muslims and Christians. God is not confused, He knows our doctrine and could have presented it correctly, like i did.
Famdigy,
It is a Sunni belief, i know you do not share it.
To other members:
Muslims are already confused about the meaning of the Trinity. Not all examples are grasped by Muslims because they lack the basics, and some theological answers bewilder them completely because they are not used to them…see the reaction of Rayaan in his last post where he couldn’t grasp it. When talking to Muslims, you must use terminologies they can grasp in order to explain to them , in their own words.
We believe in the tauhid of Allah, His Word and His Spirit.
Muslims as well believe that Allah and His Word are One (Sunni at least).
this is already 2/3 of the Trinity and it does not mean there are 2 Allah neither there are partners to Allah.
you presented your points…once and twice…the first time i did not catch what you meant…the second time i did…and i answered back…and i repeat it briefly : refuting the Trinity because of the incarnation and/or Jesus humanity shows another misunderstanding of the Trinity. Adding Mary 3 times regarding Christians is not the Trinity. The Trinity was already known long time before Muhammad. If Allah wanted to refute it, he could have refuted it using the correct formula used by Christians…as simple as this. For example : they disbelieve who say Allah, His Word and His Spirit are One God! Lo, verily Allah is wisdomless and spiritless!
Am a human Kadaveri, and i used the correct forumla, mentioning the Holy Spirit (Not Mary), and mentioning the Wisdom of God, without ever mentioning that Jesus and Mary used to eat food and died like previous prophets because it is IRRELEVENT to the Trinity, and without mentioning partners to God, and without saying that the Wisdom of God makes God insufficient as per Quran.
What the Quran uses is alien to Christian theology that is why Christians do not find one correct representation of it, add to it that Muslims themselves talk about partners and Mary and 3 gods. This , Kadaveri, is hardly the refutation of an all-knowing because it is called confusion for both Muslims and Christians. God is not confused, He knows our doctrine and could have presented it correctly, like i did.
Famdigy,
It is a Sunni belief, i know you do not share it.
To other members:
Muslims are already confused about the meaning of the Trinity. Not all examples are grasped by Muslims because they lack the basics, and some theological answers bewilder them completely because they are not used to them…see the reaction of Rayaan in his last post where he couldn’t grasp it. When talking to Muslims, you must use terminologies they can grasp in order to explain to them , in their own words.
We believe in the tauhid of Allah, His Word and His Spirit.
Muslims as well believe that Allah and His Word are One (Sunni at least).
this is already 2/3 of the Trinity and it does not mean there are 2 Allah neither there are partners to Allah.
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MH84
Guest
If you are still wondering about Christians using this term, check out the title of this recent thread:
What is the origin of the idea that God turned away from Jesus?
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inJESUS
Guest
Of course we say God and Jesus. God is the Father.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
theory is one thing, reality is another. christians dont generally say that exact phrase.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
okay, if you say so.
God and Jesus
gee the muslims are right. you are polytheistic. thats two separate objects of worship.
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MH84
Guest
So you are saying that the three Persons of God are: God, Son and Holy Spirit?
How can you blame Muslims for being confused about Catholics’ view of God?
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