The Trinity and Islam

  • Thread starter Thread starter scapularkid8
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
famdigy said:
The Qur’an being the uncreated word of God is a concept that ought to be rejected by all Muslims. It’s my belief that this idea was not a teaching of the prophet. It is a thought that crept into Islam via early jewish and Christian converts.

Whether sunni are correct or not does not negate the fact that the belief that Allah and His Word are One is pure monotheism.
Click to expand...
 
Sister_Amy said:
Is this all the Christian views of God? I don’t think so. But anyway… where did you get it, and is it an authentic source? And what is it based on?
Click to expand...
I’m sure it is. I gave the link on my previous post. I’m sure its not based on the bible. And thats what you wanted, right? A discussion that is outside the bible.
Sister_Amy said:
Their God? I’m not convinced that God has needs.
Click to expand...
Dont you think being a creator is one of the natures of God? What about the 11th name of Allah: “The Creator”. Is that supposed to be his eternal name, or something he cooked up recently?

Anyway this is their God we are talking about.
Sister_Amy said:
I’m also not convinced that Christians (or you, for that matter) are qualified to describe God’s “nature,” in fact I think they don’t know it. (Nor, do I think, does anyone else.)
Click to expand...
Im not convinced that Mohammad was qualified to describe God’s nature. But thats what everyone is doing, guessing what is supposed to be like.

And for this discussion, we have to make some basic assumptions about God. Already we are assuming that he exists. We are assuming that he is One. You are assuming that he has no needs, whatsoever. But this is the christian God we are trying to discuss, so please excuse their assumption that God is an eternal creator.
Sister_Amy said:
Hold up, hold up, hold up!!! You’re saying that God has needs (which I don’t agree with) and that only a split personality would satisfy his needs!?!?!
Click to expand...
yup, thats where its headed to. 😃

but im still not sure whether to call it “needs” or “nature”. Ok i’ll tell you, christians call it the nature of love. I call it the need for companionship.
Sister_Amy said:
You said that a Creator needs a creation to be a Creator, right? Why does the Creator need to be split personalities? Because He was bored? But if He Created then He wouldn’t be bored. Seriously, I think you’re tying yourself a knot here. Better stop.
Click to expand...
  1. I’m sure you would agree that though he has the nature of a creator, his creation assumably isnt eternal. so between infinity and the time for creation, how would God’s social/love nature/need be fulfilled? Remember we are assuming that there is only one God. To keep that number, the answer would have to be a split personality.
  2. The ideal companion is someone who is equal to yourself. So a mere creation would not satisfy God’s need/nature.
 
Agnos,

who told you that “God needs” is a Christian doctrine or position?
 
inJESUS said:
Agnos,

who told you that “God needs” is a Christian doctrine or position?
Click to expand...
i hear it mostly from the protestants. anyway this all depends on whether or not you think that being a creator is an integral nature of God. what do you think?

also, depends on how you interpret “god is love”
 
AgnosTheist said:
it leads to the argument that god has other needs. emotional needs. companionship.
Click to expand...
this is not about the Trinity. The Father did not create His Word or Spirit in order to exist or have companions. The Father and His Word and Spirit have always existed as One God.
 
inJESUS said:
this is not about the Trinity. The Father did not create His Word or Spirit in order to exist or have companions. The Father and His Word and Spirit have always existed as One God.
Click to expand...
^ I did not mean to say he created the son & spirit.
 
We dont take God or his wisdom and will to be a different entity, we dont talk or speak or think of them as anything except for God.

We dont describe them as three, we dont speak of them as different entities…

YOU DO…

You either talk about God (so called father), then Jesus the so called son, (who strangely happens to be God himself)… then some third entity called the spirit, which you identify as a different entity to God and Jesus…

You then make strange statements…

like the other day I stated WHY would God want a man (jesus) tortured, humiliated and brutally killed to forgive the sins of other people…

So many Christians then reply, by saying that God did not want jesus to be killed or slaughtered,
Jesus CHOSE TO BE BRUTALLY KILLED SO, GOD WOULD FORGIVE HUMANITY…

But if you call jesus God, then that means God wanted HIMSELF brutally slaughtered by humans, so he could then forgive humanity

it all goes around in a circle where you keep talking of God as 3 different entities and then the same entity in the same sentence.

Its confusing, because it makes NO sense.
 
Rayaan said:
like the other day I stated WHY would God want a man (jesus) tortured, humiliated and brutally killed to forgive the sins of other people…
Click to expand...
muslims say they believe in the torah. in the Torah God required blood sacrifices to forgive sins. Tell us WHY. That will be the answer to your question.
 
Muslims don’t believe in the Torah, we believe did contain the word of God before it was corrupted by the jews,

Once prophet Jesus came, Judaism became obsolete as Jesus word replaced all that came before him…

When the Christians corrupted the word of God, and started to worship Jesus as God.

The final messenger THE SEAL OF THE PROPHETS was sent with the Quran being the final testament…
 
Rayaan said:
Muslims don’t believe in the Torah, we believe did contain the word of God before it was corrupted by the jews,
Click to expand...
Are you saying that God did not impose blood sacrifice to the jews?
 
Ask the jews…

But I know God would not condemn an innocent man to brutal torture, slaughter and death so he can then for some reason NOT UNDERSTOOD BY ME, forgive the rest of humanity for there own sins…

i mean how does that even work, why does God require the brutal slaughter of ONE man to forgive anyone else…

**But thats not my main point, you guys are saying Jesus was GOD, so that means God required man kind to Kill and torture and murder GOD himself , so he could then forgive mankind…

Its not just blood sacrafice, it is the blood sacrafice OF GOD, to appease GOD so god then forgive mankind, who has tortured and killed GOD**

Now come on mate, dont tell me that makes sense to you.
 
Rayaan said:
We dont take God or his wisdom and will to be a different entity, we dont talk or speak or think of them as anything except for God.

good, but when it comes to Christianity, you just cannot grasp the the Father and His Word are one, not 2, why?
We dont describe them as three, we dont speak of them as different entities…
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Rayaan said:
Muslims don’t believe in the Torah, we believe did contain the word of God before it was corrupted by the jews,

this is not what the Quran says when Allah asks Jews and Christians to abide by the Torah and Injeel.
Once prophet Jesus came, Judaism became obsolete as Jesus word replaced all that came before him…
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
scapularkid8 said:
How is it impossible for God to have Three Divine Persons that are One in Essence? If He’s God why should we question how He Manifests Himself and apply a human definition of ‘oneness’ upon Him and say the Trinity is impossible. How do Muslims feel about this?
Click to expand...
Firstly, let me say, Muslims worship God. They adore and believe in the same God as Christians, Jews, and all those who worship the Creator, for God is God, the one God, the Lord, the Almighty. (Catechism of the Catholic Church 841)

Secondly, Muslims do not impose a human definition of oneness upon God. They merely believe in God, the one God. They do not believe in the Holy Trinity, as we Catholics do, because they are taught that there is no Trinity, and the Qu’ran teaches this too. (Qur’an 4:171)

Thirdly, we must live by the Great Commandment, namely, Love. Yes, we must live in love for each other, for Jews, for Muslims, for Buddhists, for Satanists, for atheists, for agnostics, and for the enemies of the Church. If we say we love God but hate others, we are liars. (1 John 4, 20)
 
Kadaveri said:
The Qur’an understands the Trinity just fine. The reason it says it is false is because it says Jesus is a human Prophet and not God, and that God is One in every possible way, and to don’t say ‘three’.

Also.
  1. The Qur’an never calls Christians polytheists, this is a lie.
  2. The Qur’an never says Christians believe in three gods, this is a lie
  3. The Qur’an never says the Trinity consists of God, Mary and Jesus, this is a lie.
  4. The Qur’an never refutes Christian doctrine by saying God doesn’t have a wife, this is a lie.
And anyone who resorts to making such claims doesn’t know what they’re talking about and should keep their mouth shut before they make Christians look like fools.
Click to expand...
What it does say is that God cannot have a son. Furthermore that love between God and man is not possible. We are not children of God but slaves.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top