The Trinity and Islam

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planten said:
Trinity is not true, not mentioned in the bible, not preached by Jesus. It is a later day made up story. Some one misled the christians.
come on buddy prove it;).and what about the 2 Gods in islam:D?allah and quran:)?both are eternal and un created;)
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Yeah, planten, and while you’re at it, tell me more about the so-called “Satanic verses” that have found their way into the Qur’an. Maybe that explains all the contradictions I find in it whenever I read it.
 
Glaucon said:
Hehehehe… Glad to find we’re of the same mind. Have you ever read the hadith on “suckling”?
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if its the one im thinking of, i think i may have, is it the one that allows women to suckle grown men?
 
morning_star777 said:
come on buddy prove it;).and what about the 2 Gods in islam:D?allah and quran:)?both are eternal and un created;)
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Not two, but three Gods! Muslims also ascribe Muhammad as a partner to Allah whenever they say their shahada:

“There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet!”

3 gods:

Allah
the Quran
Muhammad

Vickie 😃
 
Booklover said:
Not two, but three Gods! Muslims also ascribe Muhammad as a partner to Allah whenever they say their shahada:

“There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet!”

3 gods:

Allah
the Quran
Muhammad

Vickie 😃
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Don’t forget the BIG Black Rock of Mecca! 😉
 
Glaucon said:
Don’t forget the BIG Black Rock of Mecca! 😉
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So, they have 4??? What will the term be? Quadnity? or Quaduine?

BTW, my brothers/sisters. I think we should not make fun of Planten. I believe that he is not a kind of Muslim who enjoy killing other people. If he understands things differently, it is his right.
 
swariffin said:
So, they have 4??? What will the term be? Quadnity? or Quaduine?

BTW, my brothers/sisters. I think we should not make fun of Planten. I believe that he is not a kind of Muslim who enjoy killing other people. If he understands things differently, it is his right.
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You’re right, my friend. The time for Jon Stewart-style mockery is long past. Let’s sit back and let him have things sink in for now. Provided he’s more honest with his questions, let’s go help him for real next time.
 
Booklover said:
Not two, but three Gods! Muslims also ascribe Muhammad as a partner to Allah whenever they say their shahada:

“There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet!”

3 gods:

Allah
the Quran
Muhammad

Vickie 😃
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**BL, thanks for mentioning our Shahadah. It is important for us. We believe in One God Allah and we believe in God through the agency of Muhammad. We do not take anything about God fromany one else except Muhammad. that is the meaning of Shahadah. But it does not mean that Muhammad is a God beside Allah. The Shahadah says “There is no God except Allah and Muhammad is his messenger”.

That is where you people went wrong and committted a grave sin. In Mathews, last chapters, you were also told to preach the gospel to the world “In the name of God and the holy spirit and the son (Jesus)” That was alright. You were to preach in the name of God and son and the spirit. The son is the means to your god through the holy spirit. The son and the holy spirit were an important part of the preaching. But you made them into gods.

That was your mistake. The son and the holy spirit were your sources to One God. They were the proof of your religion. They were not to be taken as gods.

But please do not twist the meanings. We say “Muhammad is the servant and messenger of Allah”. We do not say that he is a god. But you are trying to accuse us. So I remind you that Muhammad was the servant and messenger of Allah and so was Jesus, a servant and messenger of Allah (the same God). Jesus was nothing more than a servant and messenger of Allah.**
 
planten said:
**BL, thanks for mentioning our Shahadah. It is important for us. We believe in One God Allah and we believe in God through the agency of Muhammad. We do not take anything about God fromany one else except Muhammad. that is the meaning of Shahadah. But it does not mean that Muhammad is a God beside Allah. The Shahadah says “There is no God except Allah and Muhammad is his messenger”.

That is where you people went wrong and committted a grave sin. In Mathews, last chapters, you were also told to preach the gospel to the world “In the name of God and the holy spirit and the son (Jesus)” That was alright. You were to preach in the name of God and son and the spirit. The son is the means to your god through the holy spirit. The son and the holy spirit were an important part of the preaching. But you made them into gods.

That was your mistake. The son and the holy spirit were your sources to One God. They were the proof of your religion. They were not to be taken as gods.

But please do not twist the meanings. We say “Muhammad is the servant and messenger of Allah”. We do not say that he is a god. But you are trying to accuse us. So I remind you that Muhammad was the servant and messenger of Allah and so was Jesus, a servant and messenger of Allah (the same God). Jesus was nothing more than a servant and messenger of Allah.**
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You are verily mistaken my friend. Jesus Christ was not the servant and messenger of Allah, b/c Allah is a false god, and I’ll prove it to you (hopefully you’ve read this in another post):
  1. Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 BC. The crescent moon is the most common symbol of this pagan moon worship as far back as 2000 BC.
  2. In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of the Kabah. This Hubal was a moon god.
  3. One Muslim apologist confessed that the idol of moon god Hubal was placed upon the roof of the Kaba about 400 years before Muhammad. This may in fact be the origin of why the crescent moon is on top of every minaret at the Kaba today and the central symbol of Islam atop of every mosque throughout the world:
    “About four hundred years before the birth of Muhammad one Amr bin Lahyo … a descendant of Qahtan and king of Hijaz, had put an idol called Hubal on the roof of the Kaba. This was one of the chief deities of the Quraish before Islam.” (Muhammad The Holy Prophet, Hafiz Ghulam Sarwar (Pakistan), p 18-19, Muslim)
  4. The moon god was also referred to as “al-ilah”. This is not a proper name of a single specific god, but a generic reference meaning “the god”. Each local pagan Arab tribe would refer to their own local tribal pagan god as “al-ilah”.
  5. “al-ilah” was later shortened to Allah before Muhammad began promoting his new monotheistic religion in 610 AD, which he learned from Christians and other monotheists of that day.
  6. There is evidence that Hubal was referred to as “Allah”.
  7. When Muhammad came along, he dropped all references to the name “Hubal” but retained the generic “Allah”.
  8. Muhammad retained almost all the pagan rituals of the Arabs at the Kaba and redefined them in monotheistic terms.
  9. Regardless of the specifics of the facts, it is clear that Islam is derived from paganism that once worshiped a moon-god. Although Islam is today a monotheist religion, its roots are in paganism.
Among the major deities of the pre-Islamic era were al-Lat (“the Goddess”), worshiped in the shape of a square stone; al-Uzzah (“the Mighty”), a goddess identified with the morning star and worshiped as a thigh-bone-shaped slab of granite between al Talf and Mecca; Manat, the goddess of destiny, worshiped as a black stone on the road between Mecca and Medina; and the moon god, Hubal, whose worship was connected with the Black Stone of the Kaaba. The stones were said to have fallen from the sun, moon, stars, and planets and to represent cosmic forces. The so-called Black Stone (actually the color of burnt umber) that Muslims revere today is the same one that their forebears had worshiped well before Muhammad and that they believed had come from the moon.

In conclusion, my friend… Other relgions know about God, but we as Christians KNOW God (Jesus Christ).👍
 
5pintLutheran said:
You are verily mistaken my friend. Jesus Christ was not the servant and messenger of Allah, b/c Allah is a false god, and I’ll prove it to you (hopefully you’ve read this in another post):
  1. Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 BC. The crescent moon is the most common symbol of this pagan moon worship as far back as 2000 BC.
  2. In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of the Kabah. This Hubal was a moon god.
  3. One Muslim apologist confessed that the idol of moon god Hubal was placed upon the roof of the Kaba about 400 years before Muhammad. This may in fact be the origin of why the crescent moon is on top of every minaret at the Kaba today and the central symbol of Islam atop of every mosque throughout the world:
    “About four hundred years before the birth of Muhammad one Amr bin Lahyo … a descendant of Qahtan and king of Hijaz, had put an idol called Hubal on the roof of the Kaba. This was one of the chief deities of the Quraish before Islam.” (Muhammad The Holy Prophet, Hafiz Ghulam Sarwar (Pakistan), p 18-19, Muslim)
  4. The moon god was also referred to as “al-ilah”. This is not a proper name of a single specific god, but a generic reference meaning “the god”. Each local pagan Arab tribe would refer to their own local tribal pagan god as “al-ilah”.
  5. “al-ilah” was later shortened to Allah before Muhammad began promoting his new monotheistic religion in 610 AD, which he learned from Christians and other monotheists of that day.
  6. There is evidence that Hubal was referred to as “Allah”.
  7. When Muhammad came along, he dropped all references to the name “Hubal” but retained the generic “Allah”.
  8. Muhammad retained almost all the pagan rituals of the Arabs at the Kaba and redefined them in monotheistic terms.
  9. Regardless of the specifics of the facts, it is clear that Islam is derived from paganism that once worshiped a moon-god. Although Islam is today a monotheist religion, its roots are in paganism.
Among the major deities of the pre-Islamic era were al-Lat (“the Goddess”), worshiped in the shape of a square stone; al-Uzzah (“the Mighty”), a goddess identified with the morning star and worshiped as a thigh-bone-shaped slab of granite between al Talf and Mecca; Manat, the goddess of destiny, worshiped as a black stone on the road between Mecca and Medina; and the moon god, Hubal, whose worship was connected with the Black Stone of the Kaaba. The stones were said to have fallen from the sun, moon, stars, and planets and to represent cosmic forces. The so-called Black Stone (actually the color of burnt umber) that Muslims revere today is the same one that their forebears had worshiped well before Muhammad and that they believed had come from the moon.

In conclusion, my friend… Other relgions know about God, but we as Christians KNOW God (Jesus Christ).👍
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Dear Brother,

Are those things you mentioned were the real cause that Muhammad change the prayer direction which once to Jerusalem, and later to Ka Ba? This in very interesting.
 
swariffin said:
Dear Brother,

Are those things you mentioned were the real cause that Muhammad change the prayer direction which once to Jerusalem, and later to Ka Ba? This in very interesting.
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According to Yunus b. ‘Abd al-A‘la – Ibn Wahb – Ibn Zayd: The Prophet turned towards Jerusalem for sixteen months, and then it reached his ears that the Jews were saying, “By God, Muhammad and his companions did not know where their Qiblah was until we directed them.” This displeased the Prophet and he raised his face toward Heaven, and God said, “We have seen the turning of your face to Heaven.” (The History of Al-Tabari: The Foundation of the Community, translated by M. V. McDonald, annotated by W. Montgomery Watt [State University of New York Press (SUNY), Albany 1987], Volume VII, pp. 24-25

Al-Tabari had no problem admitting that it wasn’t until Muhammad heard the Jews making fun of him that he then decided to change his prayer direction.

the change of the Muslim direction of prayer — away from Jerusalem and towards the Kabah in Mecca — happened at a time when it was full of pagan idols and the worship of false gods was the daily practice at this shrine, and would continue to be this way for a good number of years until Muhammad’s conquest of Mecca.

Muhammad sought to win the Jews to Islam, and adopting their direction of prayer was one of the tools employed in this endeavor. After it became clear that the Jews would never follow him, he turned against them, and abandoned the fasting at Ashura and the Qiblah that he had chosen to impress them and win them over. After Muhammad had lost hope that the Jewish and Christian communities would join his movement, the only groups he could still hope to unite in his religion were the various pagan tribes of Arabia.

Muhammad had followed various religious observances of the Jews to gain their favor. Apparently for similar opportunistic reasons he now changed the Muslim Qiblah towards the Kabah, the central shrine of the Arab pagan religion, despite the fact that it was full of idols. It is hardly unfounded speculation when one gets the suspicion that he gave their holy place an important position in his religion in order to make it more attractive for the Arabs to join Islam.

It is quite obvious that the Quran contains the thoughts and feelings of Muhammad. Muhammad’s outlook towards certain people and events helped to shape the form and contents of the Quran. For instance, the Jewish rejection of Muhammad led him to abrogate specific observances such as the Muslim prayer direction (or qiblah) and to include these into the Quran in order to give them the appearance of a divine sanction. This shows the very human origin of the Quran, that the Quran’s commands and instructions were not sent down from on high but were the result of Muhammad’s feelings and experiences.:coffeeread:
 
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