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friendship
Guest
If you asked what part of it is reality, It was easier for me to answer you.Please clarify. What part of his post is a lie?
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Jay53
Guest
Not good enough. I don’t see what part is a lie, so you’ll need to be more specific please.
The situation where the 21 Christians were killed did happen and according to the article no one has been prosecuted for this crime. What part of all of that is a lie?
And do you honestly think that if this happened in America/Europe/non-Muslim country to 21 Muslims and no one was prosecuted that this would be acceptable?
Again, please clarify, which part of dzheremi’s post is a lie?
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friendship
Guest
I try to don’t read his posts, cause my time had cost. You and he just try to repeat things we answered before. I just repeapt this sentnce: “Islam didn’t order them to do so”!!
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dzheremi
Guest
Friendship,
Ask a Copt if I am lying. Ask international news organizations that covered the incident if I am lying. Ask the government of Egypt, whose court system mishandled the case, if I am lying. The truth does not become a lie because you are uncomfortable with it. I dislike how some people paint the Catholic Church as a church filled with pedophile priests because of the diseased and sick minds of a very small number of priests who should never have been ordained in the first place, but that doesn’t for a second mean that I deny that such abuse did happen. To do so would just be an additional abuse of the victims. I want all Muslims everywhere to be held to the same standard. Stop denying reality just because the facts make Islam look bad. Deal with your problems in an uncompromising, decisive manner instead of living in denial.
Planten,
My language is “filthy”? Well then, it is a good thing that I held my tongue more than my heart told me to! Seriously, sir…when you try to brush away the murders of twenty-one innocents by invoking some chimera of your own making that somehow ties the victims, which by the way included an 11 year old girl and an 85 year old man, to the actions of some “Christians-in-name-only” THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY in Europe or America, then what sort of reactions do you expect to get? I do not lay the blame for the 9/11 terrorist attack on Muslims in Albania, or the 7/7 terrorist attack in London on Muslims in Morocco. Such poor attempts at deflection of responsibility are infuriating, given the context in which they are thoughtlessly given. Put simply, you are an awful, awful apologist for Islam, and your posting here seems to create a sort of “cone of ignorance” around you that draws in a similar style of poster who likewise cannot deal with reality and will bring up anything to silence their own conscience (i.e. Friendship). You have a very negative effect on the quality of discussion here overall. Reform yourself. Look to thoughtful Muslim posters like Hadi or Sister Amy if you do not know how to do this.
Ask a Copt if I am lying. Ask international news organizations that covered the incident if I am lying. Ask the government of Egypt, whose court system mishandled the case, if I am lying. The truth does not become a lie because you are uncomfortable with it. I dislike how some people paint the Catholic Church as a church filled with pedophile priests because of the diseased and sick minds of a very small number of priests who should never have been ordained in the first place, but that doesn’t for a second mean that I deny that such abuse did happen. To do so would just be an additional abuse of the victims. I want all Muslims everywhere to be held to the same standard. Stop denying reality just because the facts make Islam look bad. Deal with your problems in an uncompromising, decisive manner instead of living in denial.
Planten,
My language is “filthy”? Well then, it is a good thing that I held my tongue more than my heart told me to! Seriously, sir…when you try to brush away the murders of twenty-one innocents by invoking some chimera of your own making that somehow ties the victims, which by the way included an 11 year old girl and an 85 year old man, to the actions of some “Christians-in-name-only” THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY in Europe or America, then what sort of reactions do you expect to get? I do not lay the blame for the 9/11 terrorist attack on Muslims in Albania, or the 7/7 terrorist attack in London on Muslims in Morocco. Such poor attempts at deflection of responsibility are infuriating, given the context in which they are thoughtlessly given. Put simply, you are an awful, awful apologist for Islam, and your posting here seems to create a sort of “cone of ignorance” around you that draws in a similar style of poster who likewise cannot deal with reality and will bring up anything to silence their own conscience (i.e. Friendship). You have a very negative effect on the quality of discussion here overall. Reform yourself. Look to thoughtful Muslim posters like Hadi or Sister Amy if you do not know how to do this.
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friendship
Guest
Dzheremi, How must I say you that every thing Muslims do is not cause of their relegion? In 1099 Christians killed muslims and their children in Juraslim, did Christianity order them to do so?
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planten
Guest
dzhereme, I had condemned the bad acts of killing. I only requested you not to blame it on Islam. Do you see the topic,i.e. the Thread??. It is about Islam and you have the bad habit of linking everything done by the Muslims on Islam. But when it was told to you about the sinful bad deeds of the christians, you became upset (hot) and sent a nasty reply. Why was that??
What sort of reaction I expect?? I expect you to be honest and admit the failure of your way of life. Just look at your people, what they are doing?. Help them to keep away from sinful life.
Perhaps you think that sinful life is a light matter for you because your Jesus did not forbid you from drinking and gambling and sex life. So you think you are all free to indulge in those bad practices. That is not true.
Jesus had told you not to look at the straw in others eyes. He advised you to remove the log from your own eyes first.
The killing of innocent men (may be Muslims or Hindus or christians) is bad. I do not support that. That is because of my religion. My religion teaches me not to do that. I do not know what your religion teaches you about killing people.Can you show me anything from your bibleNT?? I am sure there will be nothing in the bibleNT.
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dzheremi
Guest
Friendship, if you had read the post you called a lie, you would see that what I am arguing for is not the demonization of Muslims for the actions of a few, but equality before the law for all regardless of religion. I openly and plainly stated that if Muslims were treated the way that Christians are treated in the Muslim world, Muslims would have the RIGHT to demand justice from the state. Christians never have that right, because that right is not guaranteed (in fact, it is explicitly denied) in Islamic courts or in country’s whose law code is otherwise established in accordance with Islam (e.g., Egypt). So, yes, it is the fault of Islam, in a way. That does not mean that Muslims are bad people or inherently unreasonable, but it does mean that Islamic law is inherently inequitable in its dealings with non-Muslims. I cannot sugarcoat that. I cannot and will not stab my fellow Christians in the back that way to make Islam look better than it is.
And the Crusades were not established by some sort of Christian law code, but by Papal decree. So it is not at all comparable to Islamic law and the horrors inflicted on people by such law.
And the Crusades were not established by some sort of Christian law code, but by Papal decree. So it is not at all comparable to Islamic law and the horrors inflicted on people by such law.
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dzheremi
Guest
Planten, your “condemnations” are hollow and transparently self-serving. A true condemnation does not admit any “buts” or “ifs”. Actions are judged by their inherent character, not by the religious identity of the actor. If a mob of Christians had killed 21 Muslims in an unprovoked sectarian attack, it would just as wrong and evil as what had happened in el Kosheh to the Christians. The difference, nay, the ENTIRE REASON for bringing up the event was to spotlight the substantially different (worse) handling of the aftermath by the Egyptian authorities. This IS the fault of Islamic law, which has placed the lives of Muslims above the laws of Christians as a matter of principle, so it is Islam that is to be blamed for such outcomes. Were Islam not the source and guideline of law (as it has officially been since the 1980 amendment to the constitution that makes it so, if it was not de facto the case before), we might actually see impartial rulings. We do not. So don’t spit on my cupcake and tell me its frosting, please. What ought to be layed at the feet of Islam will be. This IS the truth about Islam, so it is entirely in keeping with the thread.
And just what does this have to do with the brutal murder of 21 Coptic Christians in el Kosheh? Where is the connection? Egypt is not Europe and Coptic Orthodoxy is not Protestantism or lapsed Catholicism/practicing agnosticism. You are making connections where none can or should be made.
Again, this has nothing to do with the issue. Stop it.
Jesus had told you not to look at the straw in others eyes. He advised you to remove the log from your own eyes first.
I can, but this is also not the issue. I do not want to indulge your dalliances. It is sufficient to say that there is plenty against the killing of innocents in both the OT and NT, which you would know if you ever read them rather than simply quoting them whenever you think they can be used to buttress Islamic apologetics.
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Young_Thinker
Guest
I agree with Planten that one cannot every bad deed by Muslims upon their religion. While Christians have also been ruthless, especially towards Jews and between each other(e.g. Protestants v.s. Catholics), Christianity is not aggressive by nature. Remember that Jesus was almost certainly a pacifist, while Allah seems to be quite vengeant(at least to outsiders).
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pismopal
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And what do you propose to do about the past? Your logic escapes me and don’t bother expanding…the logic escapes me because there isn’t any.
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Young_Thinker
Guest
Unfortunately, I do not have time right to adequately counteract those statements . However, I feel that that is, frankly, nonsense. Ethical theories change (and others are not apparently introduced until later-e.g. Mosaic Law), but morality never (or almost never) does. I hope that I am not intruding.
And what do you propose to do about the past? Your logic escapes me and don’t bother expanding…the logic escapes me because there isn’t any.
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Young_Thinker
Guest
…Just as religious objectivity exists, there are universal fundamentals of an absolute morality, which have been ordained by God yet are irrespective of one’s own beliefs. Zoroaster and the Buddha (Gautama) knew this, and so probably did Muhammad. A head-hunting cannibal may be revered as a hero within his own tribe, but he is still a disgusting murderer.
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staffsgt7
Guest
Has anyone noticed that when you bring the words of former Muslims to light about how disgusting Islam is the Muslims always say they are lying? They lie about the same exact things. These people come from different lands and are of different ages. Some are different sects of Islam eg: Ali Sina was a Shia, Walid Shoebat was Sunni.
Funny how that is.
Funny how that is.
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staffsgt7
Guest
Well, the Muslims can do something by working to change their Sharia laws and deleting stuff out like: slavery, pediphilia, saying that violence is always an option in Jihad and supporting it with Muslim charity, sanctioning deception, etc. Planten isn’t representative of the majority of Muslims in this world and even at that he isn’t doing anything to change Islam.
Granted the Koran would be reduced to the size of a pamphlet if the bad stuff was taken out, but if that is what it takes then they should be doing something to change it. planten gives us the same sort of hogwash about Islam that the masses of Sunni give us concerning it, 1. they shouldn’t be blamed for the violent ones, 2. we misunderstand Islam, 3. and they deny all the bad stuff in the Koran and sunnah, and in Sharia laws. And none of them do anything to change it.
Why doesn’t planten or any Muslim take on this endeavor? (answer: they would be killed and they know it)
Islam is immoral and teaches immoral behavior. Slavery is ok, pediphilia is ok if the baby, or girl child is labeled a wife, stoning and beheading a woman is ok if they don’t have 4 witnesses to their rape, beating women and children, raping and abusing slaves which include children both boys and girls, deceiving unbelievers is ok if it advances Islam, no non-Muslim have any rights under Islam and Muslim women have half the rights of men, etc. The immoralities in Islam are numerous.
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planten
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dzhereme, what do you want me to do?? Go after them with a gun??
I agree with you. I had posted the same thing, if you did not read it, it is your fault.
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You are wrong. You are again not understanding. It is not the fault of Islam. But it is the fault of those who are mis-interpretting Islam. Now, if I blame all the bad deeds done by the catholics on your religion, would it be right?? I hope not. You are misunderstanding Islam.
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You are not right. Islam does not teach killing any christian or any non-Muslim. We have told you many times. You are aiding the Muslims bigots. You are as bad as they are (The Egyptians). And you have many other bad habits which I would not divulge at this stage.
Please do not blame it on Islam. If necessary then try to understand what is real Islam. Do not learn it from the ignorant Muslims. You should blame the Egyptians and you should say “**Islam is a religion of Peace. Why the Egyptian Muslims are not peaceful??” **Something to that effect. But you are supporting them as if they are doing it right according to their religion.
In this way you are trying to kill two birds with one stone. Please think over. If you do not understand Islam or the real teachings of Islam then do not pass any remarks about Islam. Otherwise, it will be understood that you are biased against Islam… intentionally…
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planten
Guest
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I do not understand this.
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Why it has nothing to do with it?? You are blaming the deeds of the Egyptian Muslims on Islam. You are judging Islam and blaming. So I reminded to remove the log from eyes.
I am not supporting any bad thing, whether it be the ruthless killing of non-Jews in old times or the recent killing of the copts. You are one eyed. You refused to say even a word against the old time killing according to a religion. What the Egyptians are doing is not according to their religion… But that killing of innocent children, ladies and men and animals is on record in the sacred book (bibleOT). Would you say a good word about that too please. But you refused.
You could easily have said. “Oh that was bad…” or “It was not good…”
Thank God you have admitted that there is plenty of killing of the innocents in the BibleOT and NT. Thanks.
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staffsgt7
Guest
Deflect off of what the Koran teaches onto some passage in the Bible. That same Bible he hasn’t read. 
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staffsgt7
Guest
1000 Muslims burn down two churches. Sounds like the ‘religion of peace’ is at it again.
Maybe some of these Muslims can tell me what they do to stop this violence such as starting a movement within Islam to change Sharia laws and taking the Koran and editing it of its violent passages. And I don’t care about telling us about it, I would like to see where they are doing it in Islamic countries.
Or how about this article: Iraqi Archbishop: Christians, Tired of Waiting, Will Leave Country
I think we would be foolish to think that the power in Islam is with the ones who are telling us that Islam is peaceful.
Maybe some of these Muslims can tell me what they do to stop this violence such as starting a movement within Islam to change Sharia laws and taking the Koran and editing it of its violent passages. And I don’t care about telling us about it, I would like to see where they are doing it in Islamic countries.
Or how about this article: Iraqi Archbishop: Christians, Tired of Waiting, Will Leave Country
I could have told them to not wait for moderates in Islam to help them out. They are more worried about telling us how peaceful Islam is.
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staffsgt7
Guest
I forgot to give the link to the feedproxy.google.com/~r/Loganswarning/~3/lYruyQOuQfk/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email.
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KingAlfred
Guest
Islam Hates Science
**Islamic propaganda has led us to believe the so-called ‘Golden Age of Islam’ laid foundations for a cultural and scientific renaissance in antiquity. Quite the opposite is true. Whatever advancements occurred in Islam during this time, were inspired largely by non-Muslims, who circumvented the obstruction of fundamentalist Islamic beliefs. Additionally, Muslim intellectuals active in this era, in some way or another, usually borrowed their ideas from Western predecessors. In fact, the Muslim world is so shockingly behind the West today because Islam rejects science, viewing its universal, objective laws as a collective insult to its barbaric, tribal god, Allah. Judaism and Christianity, on the other hand, offer a viable, theological basis for scientific inquiry, and have helped their adherents achieve material progress for the betterment of Mankind. **
**Islamic propaganda has led us to believe the so-called ‘Golden Age of Islam’ laid foundations for a cultural and scientific renaissance in antiquity. Quite the opposite is true. Whatever advancements occurred in Islam during this time, were inspired largely by non-Muslims, who circumvented the obstruction of fundamentalist Islamic beliefs. Additionally, Muslim intellectuals active in this era, in some way or another, usually borrowed their ideas from Western predecessors. In fact, the Muslim world is so shockingly behind the West today because Islam rejects science, viewing its universal, objective laws as a collective insult to its barbaric, tribal god, Allah. Judaism and Christianity, on the other hand, offer a viable, theological basis for scientific inquiry, and have helped their adherents achieve material progress for the betterment of Mankind. **
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