The Truth About Islam

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pismopal said:
And what do you propose to do about the past?
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Is Holy Scripture only in “the past” for you? It continues to be our sacred book. I believe it to be divinely inspired.

As a matter of fact the past is relevant as well–the atrocities committed by Christians historically are relevant to the present discussion. But we are talking about Scripture, which is not just a historical record.

If you believe that a holy and unchanging God commanded the slaughter of the Canaanites, then you believe that such slaughter remains compatible with the character of the God you worship. And that is highly relevant (and deeply disturbing) for the present.

Edwin
 
friendship said:
Misinterpretation fallacy. I never said sunnis are bnot real muslims, but vahhabism yes sunnis and shiahs say that they are not muslim. As I showed what done in september11 2001 is aganst Quran and so against Islam. IS it so hard to understand it?
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Yes it is hard to understand. If there was no quran & islam there will be no 9/11. Those extremist are following the quran literally that’s why they are called extremist and did what they did right? :hypno:
 
lost_wanderer said:
Yes it is hard to understand. If there was no quran & islam there will be no 9/11. Those extremist are following the quran literally that’s why they are called extremist and did what they did right? :hypno:
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It isn’t only the ones we call extremists who are following Islam. The ones who are misleading us about Islam follow it too. They wage jihad by the tongue (taqiyya and kithman), and with their wealth (muslim charity or zakat).
 
The Arabs who call themselves Palestinians teaching their children that martyrdom (killing non-Muslims and dying) is great in this video.
 
staffsgt7 said:
The Arabs who call themselves Palestinians %between%
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By the locution “who call themselves” are you suggesting that other national identities have some reality beyond what people call themselves? What is the United States if not a collection of people who call themselves Americans?

Edwin
 
lost_wanderer said:
Yes it is hard to understand. If there was no quran & islam there will be no 9/11. Those extremist are following the quran literally that’s why they are called extremist and did what they did right? :hypno:
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heh! If there was no christianity and Bible, there are no killing children and women in juraslim in 1099 and in sabra and shatila!

If there was no Bible and biblical prophet no one killed women, children and animals of amalek…

How can learb you that what followers do is not exactly what the relegion ordered to?
 
staffsgt7 said:
It isn’t only the ones we call extremists who are following Islam. The ones who are misleading us about Islam follow it too. They wage jihad by the tongue (taqiyya and kithman), and with their wealth (muslim charity or zakat).
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And again, you can’t support this. You are simply spewing blind bigotry.

I don’t object to the harshness of your tone. I object to your lack of concern for truth.

You cannot support these wild speculations about what goes on in other people’s minds. You cannot support your pretensions to decide (by your magisterial authority) what is “real Islam” and what isn’t. It’s all a castle in the air. The fact that your fantasy is fueled by hate makes it particularly horrific. But the basic problem with your position is its lack of truth, not its lack of courtesy or gentleness or even charity (charity and truth never conflict).
 
lost_wanderer said:
Yes it is hard to understand. If there was no quran & islam there will be no 9/11. Those extremist are following the quran literally
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No. They have a hermeneutic like everyone else.
that’s why they are called extremist and did what they did right? :hypno:
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Following a holy book literally, if it was possible, would indeed be extremist. So extremist that it’s impossible.

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
By the locution “who call themselves” are you suggesting that other national identities have some reality beyond what people call themselves? What is the United States if not a collection of people who call themselves Americans?

Edwin
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Get real, they are Arabs.

On March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with P.L.O. executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. In which he said he said:

“The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan , which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa , while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa , Jaffa , Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem . However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine , we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan .”
 
staffsgt7 said:
The Arabs who call themselves Palestinians teaching their children that martyrdom (killing non-Muslims and dying) is great in this video.
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ha ha! If I had several actors I could make such videos about Jews and Christians who teaching their children to shut and kill every muslims!!!

Such vidoes and hoaxes are so so so antiquated
 
Contarini said:
And again, you can’t support this. You are simply spewing blind bigotry.

I don’t object to the harshness of your tone. I object to your lack of concern for truth.

You cannot support these wild speculations about what goes on in other people’s minds. You cannot support your pretensions to decide (by your magisterial authority) what is “real Islam” and what isn’t. It’s all a castle in the air. The fact that your fantasy is fueled by hate makes it particularly horrific. But the basic problem with your position is its lack of truth, not its lack of courtesy or gentleness or even charity (charity and truth never conflict).
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As for tone you have no idea what is going on in my mind either. You are doing what you accuse me of doing.

You can tell when the Muslims are following their laws by what they are writing and saying if you know their texts. Jihad is a very, real requirement in Islam. It is required that all Muslims do it. And they can wage it by their tongues, their wealth and that violence is alway an option and it is the holiest kind of Jihad. I already gave the sharia law that explains it - o9.

I actually don’t hate them, I feel sorry for them. But I do hate Islam and have made no bones about it. And I am not going to write something that is a lie to make you happy. Unfortunately Islam sanctions deception. They make it holy and one of their good deeds to advance Islam. All I got to say is learn it and you will see.
In operational terms, taqiyya and kitman allowed the ‘mujahadeen ’ to assume whatever identity was necessary to fulfill their mission; they had doctrinal and theological and later jurisprudential sanction to pretend to be Jews or Christians to gain access to Christian and Jewish targets: ‘the mujahadeen can take the shape of the enemy’.
According to Christian ethics lying is a sin; In Islamic jurisprudence and theology, the use of taqiyya against the unbelievers is regarded as a virtue and a religious duty.
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Like many Islamic concepts taqiyya and kitman were formed within the context of the Arab-Islamic matrix of tribalism, expansionary warfare and conflict. Taqiyya has been used by Muslims since the 7th century to confuse and split ‘the enemy’. A favored tactic was ‘deceptive triangulation’; to persuade the enemy that jihad was not aimed at them but at another enemy. Another tactic was to deny that there was jihad at all. The fate for such faulty assessments by the target was death.
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Part of their deception is to deny Jihad or deny that the violent kind is the most holy of kinds of Jihad (97% of Jihad is violence against non-Muslims in their texts), to deny that our lands are considered the lands of war or dar al harb. Because of this they are in a constant state of war until we accept Sharia laws and subjugation if we reject Islam. I won’t even have that option as an atheist - I only have the options of conversion or death. People of the book have the added option of accepting subjugation.
 
friendship said:
heh! If there was no christianity and Bible, there are no killing children and women in juraslim in 1099 and in sabra and shatila!

If there was no Bible and biblical prophet no one killed women, children and animals of amalek…

How can learb you that what followers do is not exactly what the relegion ordered to?
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True. However I also think that if there was no Bible, Mohammad will have to create a more colorful story and won’t take the story of Abraham and his God. Maybe he will get ideas from a pagan religion? I think that was the most rational thing to do right? Since there were no other religion in that area at that time.
 
Contarini said:
No. They have a hermeneutic like everyone else.

Following a holy book literally, if it was possible, would indeed be extremist. So extremist that it’s impossible.

Edwin
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Ok so what shall we call the muslims that the “moderate” muslims are calling extremists?
 
lost_wanderer said:
True. However I also think that if there was no Bible, Mohammad will have to create a more colorful story and won’t take the story of Abraham and his God. Maybe he will get ideas from a pagan religion? I think that was the most rational thing to do right? Since there were no other religion in that area at that time.
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Your bigtory, forces you to accept that if Bible didn’t exist many people didn’t got killed. What we must await about what you say about Islam.

Your problem is: You can’t confirm your claims!
 
friendship said:
ha ha! If I had several actors I could make such videos about Jews and Christians who teaching their children to shut and kill every muslims!!!

Such vidoes and hoaxes are so so so antiquated
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We find hate texts in mosques here in the USA and Europe. Undercover Mosque, Part1 and Part2

3 in 4 mosques teaching hatred in the USA.

You can behave as if they are not true, that is fine. I expect no less. It shows me the ‘love’ of Islam. Maybe you are talking about that perverted love of labeling babies as brides so old men can marry them? Should we go into that? Or how about ‘man love Thursdays’ that is a common thing in Afghanistan? Or what the Muslims do to the children they capture as slaves? Should we really take that step into what Islam considers love?

The thing about all of this is that none of the ones who tell us they are moderate are doing anything to change this in Islam. They tell us they don’t want it (sometimes), but they don’t do anything else about it.
 
friendship said:
Your bigtory, forces you to accept that if Bible didn’t exist many people didn’t got killed. What we must await about what you say about Islam.

Your problem is: You can’t confirm your claims!
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I admit that I’m no expert at bible and scriptures. But that is what I’m asking you… If the bible doesn’t exist, no history of the jews, abaraham, moses, killings etc… then what will Islam be? Would there be an Islam religion?
 
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