The truth in this analysis makes my shiver!

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I think there are multiple interests here and the economy is one for certain.
I disagree with the attempt to identify the potential of hospitals being overwhelmed as the sole reason for the steps we took. I think this was in reality one concern.
It appears this one concern is being stressed absent the most obvious concern. Dead Americans. Americans exposed with no vaccines or effective treatments.
We sought to lower the body count.
Death in a nice available bed with all the equipment checklist checked is still death.
Opening the economy does open a decision about what is acceptable additional death and suffering in exchange for commerce. The decision is that cold and should not be sterilized. Pro life people should be the first to recognise this
 
These people probably get a sense of personal vidinciation from lying about Trump. Yes, his casinos went through Chapter 11. But there’s a rule about that called the “absolute priority rule”. You have to pay all creditors in full in order to retain any equity interest, which Trump did. He later sold the casino interest at a very large profit. Deutchebank tried to loot him so he sued them and won. People claim only Deutchebank will lend to him, but they don’t know that. They’re not in the loan committee meetings and don’t know whether he has even applied at other lenders.

There is new fake news and old fake news. This post’s contents are of the latter variety.
 
There is no lie. Putin set out to do this, took steps to do this, and Trump took advantage of those steps. As well as actively seeking more steps to optimize them.
 
It seems to be the consensus that we’re a year away from a vaccine. There are those who say the current treatments are ineffective, though that’s uncertain. There is merit to the “hospital overcrowding” argument. But barring a vaccine or effective treatment or shutting down the economy entirely, is anything going to change in terms of the number of people who get the disease or die from it? I have serious doubts about that. As long as even one person in a community has an active case, the whole community is at hazard of catching it.
 
Maximus1 said:
There is no lie. Putin set out to do this, took steps to do this, and Trump took advantage of those steps. As well as actively seeking more steps to optimize them.
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I think there is a consensus that Russia made a paltry effort to influence the election, but I don’t think any credible source says it influenced the outcome. What is reasonably certain is that the “Steele dossier” was a Russian cookery intended to damage Trump. It can also be said with relative certainty is that it did damage this country by dragging it through the three years of fruitless Mueller investigation.
 
For all practical purposes,the governors are given the responsibility for opening or not their individual states per their individual situation recthe virus.NY alone accounts for 1/3 of the infected and deaths in the Nation.So yeah they need to isolate foe a while longer.However other states are already in a position to open up,why should they have to shelter in place until states like NY are ready to go?
Your premise doesn’t make any sense
 
Ridgerunner said:
As long as even one person in a community has an active case, the whole community is at hazard of catching it.
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AND, the problem is that one can be asymptomatic with the disease. That is very troubling, and makes a vaccine or treatment that much more important.

I can see some things opening before others, but the ones that are easiest to open now, like white collar jobs, don’t need to be opened. It’s retail that is the most important. Bars are last.
 
The only conspiracy theory the left is willingly embracing is the Russian interference in the 16 election.Debunked doesn’t matter that’s all they have.
On the other hand,any theory re this virus that bodes badly for China is roundly rejected by the left regardless of the merits of those theories. :roll_eyes:
 
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PaulinVA said:
I can see some things opening before others, but the ones that are easiest to open now, like white collar jobs, don’t need to be opened. It’s retail that is the most important. Bars are last.
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I don’t think I can agree. Not too far from here is a banking software company that serves hundreds of banks. It’s not “fire and forget” software. They install it, but monitor and maintain it from their headquarters. That’s “white collar”, but if they closed down, lots of banks would be unable to even tell you how much money you have there, let alone give any of it to you. And when the tornadoes tore through the South recently, “white collar” adjusters and accountants are keeping people going.

Walmart is “retail”, but it has an enormous “white collar” complex in NW Arkansas and SW Missouri. The “white collar” part of retail is what keeps retail supplied. I have seen trains a mile long and more carrying nothing but J.B. Hunt trailers full of goods headed (largely) from eastern manufacturers to western markets and western imports to eastern markets. The logistics are very complicated and all “white collar”.

One good thing, though, is that “white collar” work is probably the easiest upon which to impose distancing and hand sanitizing. My business is totally “white collar”. We have stayed open and probably will continue to do so. We have hand sanitizer which we offer to customers, and we maintain distancing. Most customers cooperate with both.
 
Jeanne_S said:
For all practical purposes,the governors are given the responsibility for opening or not their individual states per their individual situation recthe virus.NY alone accounts for 1/3 of the infected and deaths in the Nation.So yeah they need to isolate foe a while longer.However other states are already in a position to open up,why should they have to shelter in place until states like NY are ready to go?
Your premise doesn’t make any sense
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Opening up some states but not others can only work if people are prohibited from travelling from one state to another. Otherwise the virus gets a free ride from a highly-impacted state to a low-impacted state and the epidemic continually renews itself.
 
Two different things:
“At hazard of catching it,and having it.” In a world where there is never a vaccine or effective treatment, only some anomaly of natural immunity that would prevent infection, you might be right. Everybody make funeral plans then go to work.
They predict a vaccine.
So to me there is merit in holding back exposure till the calvary comes.
 
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RR, if white collar companies are open now, they can stay open, as is probably the case in your examples. Don’t know why you brought them up.

I can only think you’re saying that the companies that are working from home are limping along not being totally productive. I can sort of understand that. Need to weigh the cost/benefit. But, my point was that those white collar people that are currently working from home successfully don’t need to risk having them all go back into the office.

I work with a lot of companies processing healthcare data. It doesn’t matter where you access AWS or Azure or your own data center resources, once you get the security right. This can go on somewhat indefinitely for a lot of people/lot of companies, except for the psychological aspect.
 
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PaulinVA said:
Don’t know why you brought them up.
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I didn’t bring them up. You did.
PaulinVA said:
I can only think you’re saying that the companies that are working from home are limping along not being totally productive
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I’m not saying that. I was only saying “white collar” companies staying open is more important than you seemed to be suggesting, particularly since they’re the easiest to maintain protections in.
 
Abrosz said:
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krayzevuze:
maybe, you are very hopeful about this! although despite the right we all now know it is between whoever the DNC puts up and Trump himself. Lord have mercy
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Nobody said that it will be easy. I point to the countries with “successful” power-grabbing dictators, and I don’t like what I see. True, the democrats are impotent, but that can change. Trump is a schoolyard bully, and VERY dumb.
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Oh he’s not dumb. He knows how his blustering and bombastic presentation appeals to his base. They call it “fighting back”.

He knows exactly what he’s doing.
 
That is the million dollar question.
Japan tried and failed. All 46 prefectures are under a second state of emergency. The economic start up is furthur away, all confidence in another restart is gone.
And you killed your people and gained nothing.
Do you have to consider that this scenario is potentially likely? How likely?
The answer to these questions tell you if there actually is an authentic route to open.
In Amity, the Mayor really wanted to reopen. His motive was valid, put ," all your businesses on a paying basis." As Quint said.
Easy enough to get tourists on the ferry and beach.
Pushing them into the water? Politicians did that.
But the shark was there, the boy and the guy whose calf and sneaker floated to the bottom died, and the beaches closed indefinitely. As it turns out sometimes helicopters, marksman, nets and observers just don’t work.
They had to kill the shark. Sometimes the choices are bad and worse.
Sometimes people are content to send people out into the ocean and " observe and find out if they get eaten." Good plan if you don’t die. Bad plan if we do. That rings of the guinea pig.
 
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Ridgerunner said:
I’m not saying that. I was only saying “white collar” companies staying open is more important than you seemed to be suggesting, particularly since they’re the easiest to maintain protections in.
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True, but I was arguing that they are also the easiest to do remotely. Sending white collar workers (those that work in offices with little face-to-face with customers) back to work and have them riding mass transit and congregating doesn’t add anything to the economy if they are now working remotely, but adds to risk. Why would we do that?
 
Ridgerunner said:
He’s a billionaire and got elected to the presidency. How’re you doing by comparison?
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I assumed since you were asking how we all do in comparison to Trump, this was a measure you use to judge people. Based on your subsequent posts, I see that this is an impossible interpretation of your question. As you point out, Trump’s financial information has not been published, so it is impossible to know what his financial worth is. That also makes it impossible for us to individually compare ourselves to him in that area.

I have been elected to a presidency (of a women’s club), does that count for the second part of your standards?
 
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