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Sister_Amy
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Sorry, but even my own knowledge has limits. How’s that?
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Sister_Amy
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For instance? LOL
LOL
Didn’t I say upfront that I would evade the question. If inJESUS wants a theological discussion he ought to seek out a theologian! I’m clearly deficient.
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Sister_Amy
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Whatever helps you sleep at night.
I am strange–this is true.
Islam is submission to God–this is true. Therefore if God says to face the Ka’ba, you face the Ka’ba. That’s what submission means.
I didn’t tell you to ask a priest, I told you to ask GOD. Don’t Christians pray?
LOLI did ask God, and found that you are being deceived to face away from God, and yet continue to claim submission to God.
What a pity…
Where is God?
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Sister_Amy
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Why should it be off-limits?Swariffin,
I respect your opinion very much, but I do not think this is so. I have had good conversations with Sister Amy in which she did not answer in any of those ways. That is why I am disappointed that she has resorted to some of those methods just because she does not want to have this conversation.
As I said before, I think she can do better. Maybe it is some Christian bias (of which I am most definitely guilty), but I cannot for the life of me understand why this conversation should be “off-limits” just because we are not all theologians. I am not a theologian, but I believe in my religion down to the very marrow of my bones. How can I ever refuse to discuss it, even with those who have no interest in its truth? They have still asked, and I am REQUIRED to answer to the best of my ability. God answers OUR every need, and He has blessed us with reason and love and passion and compassion and everything else that we need to take up our crosses and follow the narrow path. To shy away from that for any reason is, of course, a matter of human frailty and sinfulness, but again it is through Our Lord that we overcome these things.
What is it that we cannot do? Answer questions on a messageboard?
NOTE: I realize that these are all Christian perspectives and I don’t expect Sister Amy or even any fellow Christian for that matter to hold them. We are all individuals and I respect Sister Amy’s right to not answer anything that she doesn’t want to answer. She has given her reasons, and they make sense within the context that she has given. I just don’t see things the same way, of course.
Just imagine my perspective for a moment–imagine that I speak, without knowledge, and tell people things that aren’t true? Is that acceptable, do you think? Would I not be held accountable?
Sometimes it’s better to simply hold my tongue. (And it’s nice for you to say so, but not many people respect my “right to not answer.”)
You see, I thought I’d give it a try–responding to you. But unfortunately the response was precisely what I had feared. The explanation which is to me so simple that a child could fathom it was convoluted in such a way as to continue to cloud the matter, as if I hadn’t answered at all.
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inJESUS
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inJESUS
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inJESUS
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when you wanted to explain Islamic monotheism to me, isn’t that called theology?
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inJESUS
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we believe God is omnipresent; you, on the other hand, believe Allah is not omnipresent, but His knowledge is omnipresent. Care to elaborate more? i ask because you told me so, so i guess this time you can elaborate on what you are telling us about.
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Sister_Amy
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You have to walk before you can run.
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Sister_Amy
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Why don’t you tell swarrifin this? I asked him the question, after all, and not you.
If you were following, you’d see why. He said Muslims face away from God when they pray. But Christians believe God is everywhere. So… it’s not possible to face away. Just a silly trap he’s caught in.
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cathopologist
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But didn’t you run before you could walk?
When someone disagrees or doubts the authenticity of Islam, you throw in your few cents worth - in effect being an apologetic for your faith. You have to have some form of basic theology to do that. And you do. I don’t see why you cannot offer your opinion this time?
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cathopologist
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How is God being omnipotent a silly thing?But Christians believe God is everywhere. So… it’s not possible to face away. Just a silly trap he’s caught in.
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Sister_Amy
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Indeed. Basic theology I can handle. Monotheism, for example, is basic theology. I have plenty of reading material and have listened to plenty of lectures on the subject.But didn’t you run before you could walk?
When someone disagrees or doubts the authenticity of Islam, you throw in your few cents worth - in effect being an apologetic for your faith. You have to have some form of basic theology to do that. And you do. I don’t see why you cannot offer your opinion this time?
The nature of the Qur’an however is not so “basic,” nor do I have an ample supply of books/articles/lectures on the subject to consult.
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Sister_Amy
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Huh?
I said swarrifin is caught in a silly trap. He claims that Muslims face away from God while he believes God to be omnipresent. Rather a contradiction. A “silly trap.”
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inJESUS
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i think his response was toward the reply that Allah is not in the Kaaba so you are not facing Allah …that’s what i understood.Why don’t you tell swarrifin this? I asked him the question, after all, and not you.
If you were following, you’d see why. He said Muslims face away from God when they pray. But Christians believe God is everywhere. So… it’s not possible to face away. Just a silly trap he’s caught in.
As to walking before running, it shows that the problem is not theology per se,(because you run whenever you want
) but this topic and yes i said i respect your not wanting to answer, but not saying that you know the answer which we won’t understand.
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inJESUS
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he said what he said because Muslims do not believe Allah is in the Kaaba, and Muslims do not believe he is not omnipresent…in other words, he’s “somewhere else” not in the Kaaba, since omnipresence is a Christian belief, not Islamic.
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cathopologist
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You converted to Islam based on Islam’s concept of monotheism? That’s a rather weak reason, isn’t it? I mean, without even knowing the extended matters on Islamic theology and Muslim reasoning?Indeed. Basic theology I can handle. Monotheism, for example, is basic theology. I have plenty of reading material and have listened to plenty of lectures on the subject.
The nature of the Qur’an however is not so “basic,” nor do I have an ample supply of books/articles/lectures on the subject to consult.
I feel you may have made haste in your decision. I could be wrong though…
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cathopologist
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Ah i see. You don’t believe God is omnipresent?
And how is God supposed to be in a rock? I know what the Qiblah is, but why would God ask Muslims to face a rock rather than the heavens? I can understand if God commanded Muslims to face Jerusalem, what i don’t understand is why God would change His mind later on? Is God really that indecisive? Or is God angry with the Jews so He asked Muslims to face a rock instead?
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dzheremi
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I can understand the desire to not spread bad/misleading information. Believe me, I feel this too, when it comes to speaking on my own religion. I think it is a good thing. I consider it a natural outgrowth of humility before God. We in the laity cannot speak FOR God and say that our interpretation is God’s “real” meaning (I am talking about Catholics here; Protestants base their whole theology around this, I’m afraid). But we can speak ABOUT God to the best of our ability, as we have grown in our understanding of His word, for you in the Qur’an and for me in the Bible. Or at least I assumed we both could…maybe this is not so much the case for you. I don’t understand why, but that’s okay. I’m not a Muslim anyway.
To me, it makes most sense to say that fear of punishment comes from lying - trying to lie to God or about God or anything like that. A lie respects the truth in so far as it needs to in order to be something other than it, but that is a willful act. “Willful ignorance” would be another thing that I would guess it makes sense to be vigilant against, but to me it is a slander against you or any God-fearing person to assume that this is what you embrace when you don’t answer a question.
Indeed. I am not denying that, just the idea that you cannot or should not speak unless you know everything about this issue.
Well, I appreciate that you gave it a try. I really do. And I recognize that you did answer, in a way that you feel is most consistent with the level of theological conversation with which you feel most comfortable. My reply to Swariffin was meant to explain why I disagreed with the depiction of you that he had posted, not to pretend as though you had never answered me in the first place.
This does lead me to another question, though, based on the post of mine that you replied to: What exactly does belief in Islam equip you to do for God? For the faith of Islam? I have posted that I believe that my Christian faith provides me with everything I need to engage in discussions like this one (though I may sometimes like you answer “I don’t know”, because after all I don’t claim to know hardly anything, and there are many things that we may never know). I know there is an answer from God for everything that we could ever wonder, even if I or all of humanity will never see it. From that perspective, I feel it my Christian duty to at least try…to try to answer, to try to investigate, to try to discover what I can. Do I fear punishment if I “speak out of turn”, so to speak? Of course! I try to do all of these things carefully and with utmost respect for that very reason. But I love and revere God, even as I fear Him as He is to be feared, so it is with that perspective that I try my best every day to be open to everyone’s questions, and His answers. It is that balance of humility and adventurousness that He has tempered me with that I must be careful to maintain. We must be mindful of pride and of neglect, right?
What has Allaah blessed you with, in this regard?
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inJESUS
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this is a good observation because on the surface, Islam or Muslims boast of “pure” monotheism; knowing that the uncreatedness of the Quran is an Islamic belief, yet not discussed, and maybe not known by many Muslims whereas in Christianity we have to discuss it as it is revealed clearly in the person of Jesus and there is no Christianity without Jesus, the Word who dwelt among us.You converted to Islam based on Islam’s concept of monotheism? That’s a rather weak reason, isn’t it? I mean, without even knowing the extended matters on Islamic theology and Muslim reasoning?
I feel you may have made haste in your decision. I could be wrong though…
This is why on the surface Muslims can boast of pure monotheism and are uncomfortable discussing such topics, instead they insist answering there is no deity except Allah, as if such topic compromises their monotheism when it is clear that their is room for such topics within the concept of monotheism but Muslims boast about their monotheism because they “think” Christians associate partners with God.
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