The Universal Church

[steve-b]

steve-b:

This is why, when asked of Jesus, is it true only a few are saved? Jesus looking forward in time, validated it.

Jesus said few are saved

AND

Few are saved

That’s not a response but then again. The statement didn’t require one either.

It’s an answer that ought to make people sit up and sweat.

However

If only a few are saved,

then people obviously demonstrate, they don’t fear God nor Hell.

 

[MichaelP3]

Oh it goes both ways.

The people who think they have it all figured out are sitting in the exact same position. They just have the luxury of claiming to follow infallible teachings.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

The Catholic Church goes back to the apostles. And the evidence is all in writing.

The Universal church goes back to the apostles. Not the church that became the Roman Catholic church.

The Church of Rome was Peter’s last see.

AND

THAT is where his successors come from.

AND

Since Jesus gave Peter the keys,

THEN

Peter and his successors, in Rome, Peter’s last see, is where primacy of authority rests for Our Lord’s Church.

 

[MichaelP3]

What you posted is an assumption upon an assumption that would take about 4 threads of 1000 + posts and still not come to a conclusion. Therfore not really an asnwer but an idealistic assumption.

 

[steve-b]

It almost makes one wonder what is the meaning of the word “catholic” before it became a Proper “claimed” noun .

NO ONE argued over this in the first century when Bp Ignatius, a direct disciple of John used it to identify the Church… The Council of Nicaea, in the 4th century, made it an article of faith.

SO

It’s been the name of the Church since apostolic times.

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

lanman87:

This is a spinoff from a topic in another thread.

Are those that have faith in Christ, have been made new creations, are indwelled with the Holy Spirit and worship and serve God by loving God and loving others, members of the universal church/the body of Christ? Even if they are not part of the Catholic church and worship/serve elsewhere?

Pope Francis invited Christians of every denomination to join in prayer today. Christians from every church and community.

Is this not the Universal Church?

The operative word there is NOT

Look,

Ecumenical speak considered,

Said simply,

The CC sees Protestants, officially, regardless of stripe, as ecclesial communities, NOT Churches.

Officially I understand you are right. Unfortunately, you Steve, believe we are all headed for hell unless we join the CC. But officially, the CC calls us brothers and sisters in Christ. In Christ. That means we are Christians. Pope Francis, who I would think, bears more weight than you…called for the leaders and fellow Christians from all the various confessions to join with him in prayer on behalf of a shared troubled world. I interpreted that as a gesture of love and acceptance and a joining together of all people of prayer. That kind of action makes Catholicism much more attractive than the hate that is espoused by Pharisees within the Catholic laity.

 

[lanman87]

The Church of Rome was Peter’s last see.

AND

THAT is where his successors come from.

AND

Since Jesus gave Peter the keys,

THEN

Peter and his successors, in Rome, Peter’s last see, is where primacy of authority rests for Our Lord’s Church.

All debatable as to fact of history and interpretation of scripture.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

The Catholic Church goes back to the apostles. And the evidence is all in writing.

The Universal church goes back to the apostles. Not the church that became the Roman Catholic church.

You obviously prove you don’t know history.

News flash

Who is the book of Romans written to?

 

[lanman87]

But officially, the CC calls us brothers and sisters in Christ. In Christ. That means we are Christians.

Yes, and if you are a Christian then you are a member of the universal church. You can’t be a Christian and not be part of the church. That is like saying a person can be born and not be a person.

 

[MichaelP3]

The Council of Nicaea, in the 4th century, made it an article of faith.

I thought you knew about other denomination other than the Catholic Church but I need to ask as I am wondering after this statement.

Are you aware that many non-Catholic Churches proclaim the Nicene Creed in that form every week?

 

[lanman87]

You obviously prove you don’t know history.

Actually, I’ve read at least 5 church history books, from both Catholics and Protestants. History is messy. I’ve found the Roman church claims of history to be twisted to fit later developments in church teaching.

 

[steve-b]

Wannano:

But officially, the CC calls us brothers and sisters in Christ. In Christ. That means we are Christians.

Yes, and if you are a Christian then you are a member of the universal church. You can’t be a Christian and not be part of the church. That is like saying a person can be born and not be a person.

News flash

ALL of these are by definition also Christians because by definition they had to be baptized

Definition:
2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. " Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."

 

[MichaelP3]

You obviously prove you don’t know history.

See post #2530 to understand a bit about how to study and present points regarding history. History is really not your friend here.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

You obviously prove you don’t know history.

See post #2530 to understand a bit about how to study and present points regarding history. History is really not your friend here.

The numbers don’t match. Ya gotta quote the post you’re referring to

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

You obviously prove you don’t know history.

Actually, I’ve read at least 5 church history books, from both Catholics and Protestants. History is messy. I’ve found the Roman church claims of history to be twisted to fit later developments in church teaching.

How many?​

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

The Council of Nicaea, in the 4th century, made it an article of faith.

I thought you knew about other denomination other than the Catholic Church but I need to ask as I am wondering after this statement.

Are you aware that many non-Catholic Churches proclaim the Nicene Creed in that form every week?

non-Catholics
Then proclaim something they aren’t.

Don’t you even see the very contradiction of terms you use?

 

[Wannano]

lanman87:

Wannano:

But officially, the CC calls us brothers and sisters in Christ. In Christ. That means we are Christians.

Yes, and if you are a Christian then you are a member of the universal church. You can’t be a Christian and not be part of the church. That is like saying a person can be born and not be a person.

News flash

ALL of these are by definition also Christians because by definition they had to be baptized

Definition:
2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. " Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."

I have no doubt that many non-Catholics all over the world submitted to Pope Francis and joined in communion of prayer the other day.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

lanman87:

Wannano:

But officially, the CC calls us brothers and sisters in Christ. In Christ. That means we are Christians.

Yes, and if you are a Christian then you are a member of the universal church. You can’t be a Christian and not be part of the church. That is like saying a person can be born and not be a person.

News flash

ALL of these are by definition also Christians because by definition they had to be baptized

Definition:
2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. " Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."

I have no doubt that many non-Catholics all over the world submitted to Pope Francis and joined in communion of prayer the other day.

Let’s hope prayers are answered

 

[Tommy999]

Said simply,

The CC sees Protestants, officially, regardless of stripe, as ecclesial communities, NOT Churches.

Please note that most non-Catholic Christians don’t care how you view our faith traditions. It doesn’t alter our relationship with Christ one iota, although your condescending approach toward dealing with non-Catholic Christians on this thread is possibly more counterproductive to your cause than helpful if your desire is to truly win converts to Catholicism because you come across like a narrow-minded and legalistic Catholic Pharisee at times.

An invitational approach focusing on helping us realize what we’re missing out on is much more effective than an adversarial approach, in my opinion. However, by your comments it appears you prefer the sledgehammer method of ecumenism.

An attitude of mutual respect between Catholics and other Christians is constructive and Christ-like, in my view. That’s why I am equally perturbed by Protestants who disparage Catholics and claim Catholics can’t make it to heaven.

Apparently, Rev Billy Graham was so highly regarded by Pope John Paul II that JPII called Graham his brother in Christ (not a schismatic) and invited him to preach in Poland — not the kind of reaction you would expect from someone who viewed Protestants as the enemy that needed to be discredited. Bishop Fulton Sheen also sought out Billy Graham as a friend in Christ and sought him out to visit with on a train once back in the day. Maybe Pope John Paul II and Bishop Sheen should’ve consulted with you first so that you could’ve pointed out the errors of their ways.

Even Colin Donovan of EWTN radio recently expressed on ‘Open Line Friday’ an admiration for Billy Graham and his contributions to Christianity and leading people to Christ, and that he expects that Rev Graham is in heaven now alongside Catholic saints, or words to that effect. I admired him for that and he gained more credibility in my mind.

 

[MichaelP3]

non-Catholics
Then proclaim something they aren’t.

Don’t you even see the very contradiction of terms you use?

You see. This is why you are in the position you currently are. You do not comprehend language or rather the lingo of the times. And that is the very very point you will probably not get. “catholic” means universal and was intended to mean that in the creed. That has never and will never be argued by non-Catholics (used as such to understand these people do not submit to the fallacy of the Roman Pontiff) as it is just exactly what it means. Check the language. So still the question now that “you know what it means”. What do you say now?