The Universal Church

[steve-b]

steve-b:

~70% of Orthodoxy is now in schism with your EP

Please provide a properly referenced source for this assertion that there is a schism. As I said, your example is not a schism.

I’ve posted this multiple times Eastern Orthodox Breach: Russian Orthodox Church Splits From Constantinople| National Catholic Register AND Pan-Orthodox Meltdown Ahead of Great Council?| National Catholic Register

AND

I’ve also posted this from the secular news Russia-Ukraine Tensions Set Up the Biggest Christian Schism Since 1054 - The New York Times

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

~70% of Orthodoxy is in schism with the EP.
That tells me only ~30% is in union with the EP

My math isn’t that great, I’m a PE teacher, but 1/14 is about 7%. You can speak on the number of faithful, I’ll speak on the number of Churches (Bishops) in communion with each other.

The Russian Orthodox make up the numbers talked about. Their patriarch & their bishops ergo the churches they represent

being in schism from Peter, ≠ Catholic

ziapueblo:

I belong to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church as we pray every Sunday in the Creed. I don’t claim to be “Catholic”.

You don’t see the contradiction in that?

 

[Isaac14]

I’ve posted this multiple times

Two Catholic sources and one secular source…are we Orthodox allowed to have our own self-understanding or must we only be defined by what non-Orthodox think of us?

 

[ziapueblo]

You don’t see the contradiction in that?

None at all

ZP

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

I’ve posted this multiple times

Two Catholic sources and one secular source…are we Orthodox allowed to have our own self-understanding or must we only be defined by what non-Orthodox think of us?

What do you disagree with, in the sources presented?

Is something not presented correctly?

 

[Isaac14]

What do you disagree with, in the sources presented?

Is something not presented correctly?

Calling it a schism. Can you find any Orthodox sources that call the one-way break in communion a schism?

It’s not, and can’t be, a schism until one church separates itself from ALL other Orthodox churches.

Edit to add: I’ve already laid out why the term schism is wrong here.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

You don’t see the contradiction in that?

None at all

ZP

Protestants give the same answer as you do.

AND

Neither is correct, neither is Catholic

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

What do you disagree with, in the sources presented?

Is something not presented correctly?

Calling it a schism. Can you find any Orthodox sources that call the one-way break in communion a schism?

It’s not, and can’t be, a schism until one church separates itself from ALL other Orthodox churches.

for a simple definition

Schism = formal division in or separation from a church or religious body

Since Orthodoxy are ALL independent churches … then one Church dividing from another = schism .

It doesn’t make such a requirement as you make. Neither does the CC make such a distinction as you make.

The Russians broke from the EP. THAT is schism

Isaac14:

Edit to add: I’ve already laid out why the term schism is wrong here.

That is YOUR definition.

 

[ziapueblo]

Neither is correct, neither is Catholic

One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church! As we sing every Sunday during the Divine Liturgy. One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, brought down to from Jesus Christ, to his Apostles and their predecessors to this day. The faith that come to us from the Fathers of the Church Sabinus of Hermopolis for example who’s feast we celebrate today) as well as the 7 councils of the Church. You can call me a schismatic all you want @steve-b, but as a former RC, I know what Catholic Churches teaches about us. You can have you personal opinions and personal interpretations of what Rome says, and Rome can say whatever she pleases. The only thing under the Pope is his bead.

If Protestants say as I, I’m not concerned.

ZP

 

[Isaac14]

That is YOUR definition.

Fine, then by my definition, the Roman Catholic Church is one denomination among many different denominations.

 

[Isaac14]

Since Orthodoxy are ALL independent churches … then one Church dividing from another = schism .

And yet you won’t supply a properly referenced Orthodox source that defines the break in communion between Russia and Constantinople as a schism.

 

[Isaac14]

Schism = formal division in or separation from a church or religious body

There isn’t a formal separation because Russia and Constantinople are each in communion with other churches in common and neither has changed the faith. Neither you nor the dictionary definition you think is applicable addresses the nuance in Orthodox ecclesiology.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Neither is correct, neither is Catholic

One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church! As we sing every Sunday during the Divine Liturgy. One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, brought down to from Jesus Christ, to his Apostles and their predecessors to this day. The faith that come to us from the Fathers of the Church Sabinus of Hermopolis for example who’s feast we celebrate today) as well as the 7 councils of the Church. You can call me a schismatic all you want @steve-b, but as a former RC, I know what Catholic Churches teaches about us. You can have you personal opinions and personal interpretations of what Rome says, and Rome can say whatever she pleases. The only thing under the Pope is his bead.

ZP

I don’t create the rules. Nor do I put my own definitions to terms. I quote terms, phrases, teachings, all properly referenced.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Schism = formal division in or separation from a church or religious body

There isn’t a formal separation because Russia and Constantinople are each in communion with other churches in common and neither has changed the faith. Neither you nor the dictionary definition you think is applicable addresses the nuance in Orthodox ecclesiology.

Define the EP in your terms. Who is he, what does he do, who if anybody, is he over?

 

[Isaac14]

Define the EP in your terms. Who is he, what does he do, who if anybody, is he over?

I’m not going to do your homework for you. For as much as you argue against the Orthodox, I would have thought you’d have made a point to understand what you’re arguing against.

 

[ziapueblo]

As have I.

ZP

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

That is YOUR definition.

Fine, then by my definition, the Roman Catholic Church is one denomination among many different denominations.

I’ve refuted that tooo many times to count. The Catholic Church has been there from the beginning, in writing.

 

[steve-b]

As have I.

ZP

Try again…

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Define the EP in your terms. Who is he, what does he do, who if anybody, is he over?

I’m not going to do your homework for you. For as much as you argue against the Orthodox, I would have thought you’d have made a point to understand what you’re arguing against.

I give you your chance. I ask you for YOUR sources and what do you do? You fold .

 

[Isaac14]

I’ve refuted that tooo many times to count. The Catholic Church has been there from the beginning, in writing.

Baloney. You have claimed multiple times that Acts 9:31 is a reference to the Catholic Church. You have yet to tell me how a verse referring to there being peace throughout the whole countryside of Judea and Samaria makes absolutely any sense as defining the Catholic Church.