The Vatican

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connorscheidel

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The question had been posed as to why the Pope can preach about “seeing through the holiday splendor” when he lives in a “palace” and wears gold clothing? how should I respond to this?
 
connorscheidel said:
The question had been posed as to why the Pope can preach about “seeing through the holiday splendor” when he lives in a “palace” and wears gold clothing? how should I respond to this?
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The palace does not belong to him, neither does the gold clothing, neither do teh gidts he receives, all of which are the property of the state of Vatican city.

He won’t be able to leave them to anyone in his will nor would he retain use of them if he retired.

So in what sense are they his? By the way, out of that palace he has about 10 rooms to call his own - a set of apartments of very modest size. The rest is museum, administrative offices and so on.

As for the trappings of his office, which have all been given out of respect for that office and for his status as a religious leader of no little importance - didn’t Jesus rebuke those who were criticising Mary’s gift of costly ointment?

Why then should we criticise the fact that Christ’s representative on earth is honored out of respect for his master, and chooses to accept the honors also out of respect for his master?

Certainly the late John Paul II seriously followed the Gospel call to poverty - so much so that he left virtually no private property to anyone in his will, owning little that he coild leave. So enacting the duties of high office in a way that befits the nobility of that office is
perfectly compatible with great personal poverty and humility. I have heard nothing about the Pope’s style of private living that speaks of huge extravagance.
 
👍 Excellent response, LilyM.

Do you get the feeling this is bait?
 
connorscheidel said:
The question had been posed as to why the Pope can preach about “seeing through the holiday splendor” when he lives in a “palace” and wears gold clothing? how should I respond to this?
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LOL! They think he wears “gold clothing” all the time?

“He speaks important Truth, try to look past your own prejudice to the meaning of what he is saying.”
 
LilyM said:
The palace does not belong to him, neither does the gold clothing, neither do teh gidts he receives, all of which are the property of the state of Vatican city.

He won’t be able to leave them to anyone in his will nor would he retain use of them if he retired.

So in what sense are they his? By the way, out of that palace he has about 10 rooms to call his own - a set of apartments of very modest size. The rest is museum, administrative offices and so on.
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I was surprised at how modest the accomadations actually are. Sometime ago I looke up the actual size of all the rooms he had for personal use and it was only about the size of my parents house (which is by no means large).
As for the trappings of his office, which have all been given out of respect for that office and for his status as a religious leader of no little importance - didn’t Jesus rebuke those who were criticising Mary’s gift of costly ointment?
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Why then should we criticise the fact that Christ’s representative on earth is honored out of respect for his master, and chooses to accept the honors also out of respect for his master?
Click to expand...
Certainly the late John Paul II seriously followed the Gospel call to poverty - so much so that he left virtually no private property to anyone in his will, owning little that he coild leave. So enacting the duties of high office in a way that befits the nobility of that office is
perfectly compatible with great personal poverty and humility. I have heard nothing about the Pope’s style of private living that speaks of huge extravagance.
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Yep, I imagine if you calculated the costs of the Popes non-travel expenses he would probably be living on less than your average American.
 
connorscheidel said:
The question had been posed as to why the Pope can preach about “seeing through the holiday splendor” when he lives in a “palace” and wears gold clothing? how should I respond to this?
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Keep listening to him, at some point you’ll see a man who gave his life for Christ and His Apostles. He’s not taking the cloths with him. 👍
 
connorscheidel said:
The question had been posed as to why the Pope can preach about “seeing through the holiday splendor” when he lives in a “palace” and wears gold clothing? how should I respond to this?
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I think his comment is very appropriate. If the holiday is about Christ that is certainly difficult to see with all the commercialism and glitz.

I know people who have parties and elaborate decorations for every Christmas, and yet don’t think of Jesus Christ, or the wonderful Gospel message of salvation at all!
 
Hesychios said:
I think his comment is very appropriate. If the holiday is about Christ that is certainly difficult to see with all the commercialism and glitz.
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Nothing against the Orthodox, but that’s a rather strange comment coming from an Orthodox!
Here are a couple of photos of Orthodox leaders…
Celebrating Christmas, No shortage of gold here:
1.bp.blogspot.com/QfVWU-2pVL4/TByBRg08-I/AAAAAAAAOzk/oMydvWN6f-s/s640/Greek+Orthodox+Ecumenical+Patriarch+Bartholomew+I+conducts+Christmas+mass+in+Aya+Yorgi+(St.+George)+church+at+Fener+Greek+Orthodox+Patriarchate+in+Istanbul+December+25,+2009.jpg
Or this one, again so much for avoiding glitz…
02varvara.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/metropolitan-hilarion-in-christ-the-saviour-cathedral1.jpg
 
I agree with the other replies here that The Holy Father does not own anything, and cannot take anything with him. He leads the Church which is known all over the world for compassionate missionary work and generosity. The art works and elegant surroundings are not his at all.
 
 
Prepare to be dazzled by the splendor of… the pope’s living room!!! 😛

 
The_Rock said:
Nothing against the Orthodox, but that’s a rather strange comment coming from an Orthodox!
Here are a couple of photos of Orthodox leaders…
Celebrating Christmas, No shortage of gold here:
1.bp.blogspot.com/QfVWU-2pVL4/TByBRg08-I/AAAAAAAAOzk/oMydvWN6f-s/s640/Greek+Orthodox+Ecumenical+Patriarch+Bartholomew+I+conducts+Christmas+mass+in+Aya+Yorgi+(St.+George)+church+at+Fener+Greek+Orthodox+Patriarchate+in+Istanbul+December+25,+2009.jpg
Or this one, again so much for avoiding glitz…
02varvara.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/metropolitan-hilarion-in-christ-the-saviour-cathedral1.jpg
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That was unwarranted. Perhaps it would have been good to read our brother Hesychios’s comment again and realise that he was actually referring to the appropriateness of the Pope’s comment on “seeing through the holiday splendour”. It is important to keep that in mind every Christmas, seeing how the world carries on with its parties, ignoring the boy whose birthday we celebrate. 😦
 
Filii_Dei said:
That was unwarranted. Perhaps it would have been good to read our brother Hesychios’s comment again and realise that he was actually referring to the appropriateness of the Pope’s comment on “seeing through the holiday splendour”. It is important to keep that in mind every Christmas, seeing how the world carries on with its parties, ignoring the boy whose birthday we celebrate. 😦
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I agree. I think there was a complete misunderstanding about what Hesychios actually said. He was praising the Pope’s comments, and reinforcing the idea that far too many people concentrate more on partying, while giving and receiving worldly presents, than they do on celebrating the coming of the Savior, Jesus Christ, into the world. 🤷
 
JustaServant said:
I have a hard time beleiving his wears his robes in his living room…especially if he has cats!! 😃
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If you notice, he’s wearing a house cassock. Observe closely. There is no shoulder cape and no sash around the waste. The shoes do not have the papal insignia. They are daily work shoes.

In an interview, he was asked about this, because prior to becoming pope he always wore shirts, tied, turtlenecks, sports jackets and other smart, but casual attire when he was not at work. He said that he had been “trapped” into wearing the cassock when off duty, because Bl. John Paul started the custom and while he worked for him, he was expected to wear it while they were relaxing together.

Now to the cats . . . when he became pope and had to move into Vatican City, he had to send his cats to Bavaria, where he owns a home with his brother, Fr. Giorg Ratzinger. The constitution of the Vatican City State does not allow pets that cannot be kept in a cage or fish thank.

The pope has no authority to change the constitution. Only the parliament of Vatican City State can do that and the Prime Minister has to sign off on it. The pope is the head of state for Vatican City, but not the head of government. He’s like the Queen of England.

He can’t touch anything in Vatican City State other than his quarters. The furnishings in his apartment belong to him. Because he is a secular priest, rather than a consecrated man, he does not live in community, nor does he make a vow of poverty or a vow of obedience to a rule of life. Therefore, he can own personal property.

Like the President of the USA, his personal property is in the living quarters or what are known as the Papal Apartment. The rest of what is in Vatican City belongs to the State, not to the head of state or the head of government. Only the State can dispose of it.

In this case, much of what’s in the Vatican has been handed over to the Church for protection, making the Church to custodian of much of humanity’s patrimony. Many people put their treasures in the hands of the Church knowing that monarchs and governments would steal them, if they were conquered, but no one would dare steal them from the Church. Many of these kingdoms fell, just as their rulers feared. The Church became the guardian of their goods, but not the legal owner.

The work that was done for the Vatican by artists such as Michaelangelo was worthless at the time. They acquired value with the passage of time. However, those works do not belong to the pope, but to the world’s one billion Catholics, because they were created for the Church. The popes commissioned them. They did not pay for them out of their own income. They paid for them out of Church money. Therefore, they belong to the Church.

Proof in point, when Pope Celestine V resigned as pope, the only thing he could take was his clothing and his books. I Pope Benedict resigns, he can only take his clothing, books, furniture, his personal bank account. Pope Celestine was a consecrated religious. He had a vow of poverty. Therefore, he could not own anything, not even furniture and a carriage and horse. Pope Benedict can own his furniture, computer, radio, TV and other personal items, such as car. He has a 1969 Volkswaqon Beetle that he auctioned off for charity in 2005. He could do that, because he does not have a vow of poverty. Therefore, he owns the car and can do with it as he pleases. However, he does not own Vatican City State, so he cannot legally have pets in side the city limits.

Bl. John Paul figured out that he was not going to get much use of his car and finally auctioned it and gave away the money. He had purchased it just three years before he was elected. It was a Ford Escort.

View attachment 12557

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF :snowing:
 
Brother Jay, I want you know my wife was horrified, HORRIFIED, the Pope is not allowed to have cats at the Vatican.:eek:

Psssst…BTW, if he wants a couple…I might be able to arrange…
😃
 
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