The Virgin Mary and the Trinity?

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The “Chi Rho” symbol of the early church representing the first two Greek letters of “Christ” - Alpha and Omega pertain to Revelation 22:13 - “I am Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”
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The Virgin Mary and the Trinity
The concept of the virgin birth is a misinterpretation of the prophecy of Isaiah who really only described a young woman, but then later the myth had to be kept alive to protect the trinitarian myth. The Virgin Mary’s journey into western mythology was gradual, she is never mentioned in all the writings of the Apostle Paul, the earliest creator of material that came to be included in the New Testament. Paul, who wrote between 49-64 A.D., had no interest in Jesus’ origins. His only references to Jesus’ family came when he said that Jesus was “born of a woman, born under the law.” He asserted that “according to the flesh,” Jesus was descended from the House of David (Romans 1:3). Paul also made reference to Jesus’ brother, a man named James. No divine origin here, no miraculous birth, no virgin mother.
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The pattern was continued in Mark, said to be the earliest Gospel, Mark as we know it today being written between 70-75 A.D. (or 40-50 A.D. according to the Qumran fragment of (“The Gospel”) Mark 6:52-53). Once more there is no story here of a miraculous birth. There are, however, two references to Jesus’ mother, but neither is flattering. She appears in this first Gospel to be embarrassed by Jesus, to think him “beside himself” and Mark says that she went with Jesus’ four brothers, James, Joses, Judas and Simon, and his two sisters to “take Jesus away” (Mark 3 and 6). That is hardly the behaviour one would expect from a woman who had been visited by an angel and who had been told that she was to be the Virgin Mother of the Son of God.
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The Virgin story entered the Christian tradition in the Gospel According to Matthew, traditionally believed to have been written in the early 9th decade, some 45 years after the death of Jesus. It was repeated in the late 9th or early 10th decade gospel of Luke, and then it disappeared in favour of the concept of Jesus’ divine pre-existence in the 10th decade Gospel of John. The mythology of Mary, however, was destined to expand in the development of Christian history.
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By the early years of the 2nd century the idea of the Virgin as the ideal woman began to grow. First, it was said of her that she was a virgin mother. Next, she became a permanent virgin, making it necessary to transform the biblically mentioned brothers and sisters of Jesus into half-siblings or cousins. Next the church fathers claimed for her the status of being a postpartum virgin which caused the hierarchy of the church to go through intellectual gymnastics to prove that the hymen of the Virgin Mary had not been ruptured even during Jesus’ birth. Then someone found a text in Ezekiel (Chapter 44:1) which suggested that when “the gates of the city were closed only the Lord could go in and out.” Without either shame or apology that verse, written about 800 years before the birth of Jesus, was said to demonstrate that Jesus could be born without disturbing the gates of his mother’s womb.
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Next in the 19th century the Virgin was declared to be immaculately conceived. Even her own birth was now said to have been miraculous. The stain of human sin found in the myth of the fall of humanity (in the Garden of Eden) was not allowed to touch her. Finally in the 20th century, literally at the dawn of the space age, Mary was proclaimed to have bodily ascended into heaven. This new doctrine was based on the fact that no one knew her place of burial. The reason, the Roman Catholic church’s leadership suggested, was that she had never died.
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holy-catholic.org/arian/virgin_birth.html
 
Perhaps the text is miss-interpreted as virgin instead of young girl, but to look at it in context, a young Jewish girl that was living her faith would be a virgin anyway.
 
Uh… I think most people know that Jesus’ “brothers” were kinsmen, as thats what kinsmen were called in His day. As far as the other arguements, they make to many unsubstantiated assumptions, and aren’t even worth the time refuting.

By the way, if Paul referred to Christ’s family “according to the flesh” did that not mean that he was making a statement about Christ’s earthly family IN CONTRAST to His divine family? This is what is clearly implied.
Cheers 😉
 
jesusluv said:
Perhaps the text is miss-interpreted as virgin instead of young girl, but to look at it in context, a young Jewish girl that was living her faith would be a virgin anyway.
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That is very weak. It has been proven since Eve to present day that young girls are very easily manipulated,no matter their faith.
 
lhagan said:
That is very weak. It has been proven since Eve to present day that young girls are very easily manipulated,no matter their faith.
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You need to check into the history of Judaism…your objection is uninformed.
 
Dear Lhagan,

May be you should read the article “The Witness of Isaiah 7:14” from the Rock Magazine July-August 1998 issue, right in this website. I think Mark P. Shea did a good job explaining this.
 
Perhaps the text is miss-interpreted as virgin instead of young girl, but to look at it in context, a young Jewish girl that was living her faith would be a virgin anyway.
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Hi

I agree with the above post.

Virginity of Mary for the first conception culminating into normal delivery of Jesus was meant in the Prophecy, I think. It would be only usual exaggeration of the scribes to insist on the permanance of virginity of Mary, this only shows that they are overzealus at times only in search of extraordinary miracles, nothing more.

Quran/Islam/Muhammad has pointed out in its Chapter # 19 titled Maryam that birth of John the Baptist (Quran names him Yahya) was as miraculous as that of Jesus (Quran names him Issa ), they both were cousins.

I would just quote two connected passages of verses in this connection, those who might be interested in more investigation should read the whole chapter for full appreciation of the issue.

Quran
[19:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[19:2] Kaf Ha Ya 'Ain Sad.
[19:3] This is an account of the mercy of thy Lord shown to His servant Zachariah,
[19:4] When he called upon his Lord in a low voice.
[19:5] He said, **'My Lord, my bones have indeed become feeble **and my head is all aflame with hoariness but never, my Lord, have I been unblessed in my prayer to Thee;
[19:6] 'And I fear my relations after me, and my wife is barren. So grant me from Thyself a successor,
[19:7] ‘To be my heir and the heir of the blessings of the House of Jacob. And make him, my Lord, well-pleasing to Thee.’
[19:8] God said, ‘O Zachariah, We give thee glad tidings of a son whose name shall be Yahya. We have not called any one before him by that name.’
[19:9] He said, 'My Lord, how shall I have a son when my wife is barren, and I have reached the extreme limit of old age?
[19:10] **The angel bearing the revelation said, ‘So shall it be.’ But thy Lord says, ‘It is easy for ME, and indeed I created thee before, when thou wast nothing.’ **

Quran
[19:17] And relate the story of Mary as mentioned in the Book, when she withdrew from her people to an eastern place;
[19:18] And screened herself off from them. Then We sent Our angel to her and he appeared to her in the form of a well proportioned man.
[19:19] She said, ‘I seek refuge with the Gracious God from thee if indeed thou dost fear Him.’
[19:20] **The angel said, ‘I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may give thee glad tidings of a righteous son .
[19:21] She said, ‘How can I have a son when no man has touched me, neither have I been unchaste?’ **[19:22] The angel said, ‘Thus it shall be.’ But says thy Lord, 'It is easy for ME; and We shall do so that We may make him a Sign unto men, and a mercy from US, and it is a thing decreed.’
[19:23] So she conceived him, and withdrew with him to a remote place.

Unquote
So, in Quran/Islam virginity or permanance of virginity was not the issue, it was the tiding of sons to parants beforehand who were to become ProphetsMessengers.

Thanks
 
You say something like Paul did not write about the divine orgin of Jesus.

Colossians 2:9 (New International Version)

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

Colossians 1:19 (New International Version)

For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,

Phil 2

5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6**Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
** he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Romans 8

1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature,** God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering.** And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Col 1

15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Hebrews 2

5It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking. 6But there is a place where someone has testified:
“What is man that you are mindful of him,
the son of man that you care for him?
7You made him a little lower than the angels;
you crowned him with glory and honor
8 and put everything under his feet.”

Titus 2:13 (New International Version)

while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
 
There is nothing new in the world. This stuff is from an arian website. Been refuted thousands of times over a thousand years
 
lhagan said:
All these opinions create doubt in the minds of people looking for truth. It is only right that they are refuted for every person seeking the truth.
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Yes, but that makes the statement true–this teaching has not dissolved…What specifically don’t you understand about the Trinity? How the Trinity is one? How/If Jesus is God?
 
Alexius said:
Yes, but that makes the statement true–this teaching has not dissolved…What specifically don’t you understand about the Trinity? How the Trinity is one? How/If Jesus is God?
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How Jesus can be one PART of the Trinity and yet all parts of the Trinity.

God in flesh=part. Jesus is God= is the entire Trinity.
 
lhagan said:
That was suppose to be a joke. Does anybody have a sense of humor here?
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Ohhhhh…😃 Well, I did kind of grin when I saw that at first, but I wondered if you were serious…

Sorry, when you’re on these forums long enough, you see some pretty strange things…😉 It’s hard to know whether to laugh or scratch your head at times…
 
exoflare, what does that have to do with the nature of God Himself?
 
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