The Way In Which Mass is Celebrated DOES Make a Difference!

[dbreit2000]

I hear you and can empathize – as I said above, sometimes criticism is merited, and it can be difficult to know how to deal with it.

Personally, I get a little disappointed when I feel like the Mass is being rushed. For example, we haven’t said the longer form of the Penitential Rite (“I confess to Almighty God …”) at Mass in months. I miss it, as I think it’s a beautiful prayer. But I also get annoyed when I feel like someone is trying to make the Mass about them rather than God. For example, a long time ago the choir director at a Mass I would attend would always choose exclusively songs that required an extensive vocal range to sing and that sometimes weren’t in the hymnal, and so really only the choir was able to sing them, and I would find myself wanting to shout, “The Mass is NOT ABOUT YOU!” (Okay, these were not grace-filled moments on my part either.)

As far as Confession goes, I can only say that I don’t envy the job of priests. There have been times when I’ve needed a good kick in the butt and have received it. Then there have been times when I’ve needed a reminder that God still loves me and have received that. But, I’ve also gone to confession and had priests who came across as attacking, while others came across as not being too convinced of the Church’s moral teachings, and still others seemed to just want to get through the line as quickly as possible and weren’t even listening. When I have a really great Confession experience, I praise God for it, and when I don’t, I praise God that I have received absolution, and ask for the wisdom to find whatever value might be found in the priest’s response, difficult as it might be to see.

These days I am trying (not always successfully) to keep in mind that, whatever form the Mass or Confession take, to just be grateful for the gifts of the Eucharist and Absolution, and to focus on the fact that these gifts are infinitely valuable in and of themselves.

Thanks, BQ, I appreciate your sage advice and will try to emulate it going forward! DB

 

[goout]

Where I come from in the midwest USA, parishes are unfortunately still trying to conform themselves to the secular culture with inventive liturgical music.
There is nothing inherently wrong with inventiveness, but when it is done for it’s own sake, it becomes contrived and convoluted, tripping over itself in it’s attempts.

And this is the only way I can describe the musical setting at the Mass we attended last Sunday. It was painfully contrived. Melodies and time signatures that are not intuitive, and are actually disconcerting. These tunes have notes that are performance oriented and so are beyond the singing range of those present. Combined with a 6 piece electrified band complete with a drum kit, and you have painful music that is also loud. It was disturbing. The secular culture does not come from a sacred place and so I’m not sure why liturgists should attempt to co-opt it for sacred worship.

None of these things encourage those present to participate, but actually discourage it. I believe this attempt to conform the Mass to surrounding culture is a luxury of the comfortable and it cannot last as the Church is progressively persecuted.

Still, the Mass was celebrated, so…I’m sure there were some who were edified by the style of worship.

 

[bquinnan]

Lol, what a coincidence. I was literally humming “Sing a New Church” while reading this because the melody was catchy and stuck in my mind. I was wondering why a new, somewhat progressive song such as this would have such a traditional melody. I had a slight hunch it was probably an older melody.

When you said you were belting out “God We Praise You,” I looked it up and literally what I was humming started playing.

Wow, this is so much better as “God We Praise You” – a praise and worship song that praises and worships God rather than our community!

 

[dbreit2000]

You shouldn’t conflate the two. The fact that your new pastor is pompous and judgemental is not a product of him chanting the Mass.

Also, still quite a few in my parish that place brevity above all other qualities when it comes to the Mass. This derives from the days when the EF Mass was celebrated at each Mass, few people understood it and brevity became a prized quality. It really shouldn’t be.

Sol, In a sense, my pastor’s “pompousness” is part of why I feel he insists on chanting at every Mass. He has a reasonably good voice, and I can’t help but feel that that is his main reason for chanting. He also chants extremely slowly, which has the opposite effect of making Mass more meaningful for me, and I suspect, for many of my fellow parishoners, whom I see at the neighboring parish frequently as well. And, it’s not about wishing for the brevity of the former pastor’s masses, although I think a shorter mass can be every bit as sacred as a long one, which they were before the new pastor arrived. Also, we always arrive at Church 30 to 45 minutes before mass to pray the rosary, so our time with God is not hurried at all. That being said, I will try to follow BQuinn’s advice in another post and concentrate on the grace received from attending…

 

[Solomonson]

Wow, this is so much better as “God We Praise You” – a praise and worship song that praises and worships God rather than our community!

“God We Praise You” is really a great song… I listened to “Sing a New Church” and it truly made me wonder, what’s wrong the the “Old Church”? Those sorts of lyrics are written by people that seem to have a terribly superficial understanding of God and His relationship to use in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[Solomonson]

Sol, In a sense, my pastor’s “pompousness” is part of why I feel he insists on chanting at every Mass. He has a reasonably good voice, and I can’t help but feel that that is his main reason for chanting. He also chants extremely slowly, which has the opposite effect of making Mass more meaningful for me, and I suspect, for many of my fellow parishoners, whom I see at the neighboring parish frequently as well. And, it’s not about wishing for the brevity of the former pastor’s masses, although I think a shorter mass can be every bit as sacred as a long one, which they were before the new pastor arrived. Also, we always arrive at Church 30 to 45 minutes before mass to pray the rosary, so our time with God is not hurried at all. That being said, I will try to follow BQuinn’s advice in another post and concentrate on the grace received from attending…

OK, I understand better now. We had a nearby Benedictine Monk/Priest substitute for us on Sunday. Twice. He too chanted the Mass – and beautifully too. But his interpersonal skills were so dreadful that he was not asked back.

 

[Catherinabird]

Wow, this is so much better as “God We Praise You” – a praise and worship song that praises and worships God rather than our community!

“God We Praise You” is really a great song… I listened to “Sing a New Church” and it truly made me wonder, what’s wrong the the “Old Church”? Those sorts of lyrics are written by people that seem to have a terribly superficial understanding of God and His relationship to use in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

I know this melody best as Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing (written in 1757). Although, I’ve also seen it as God We Praise You.

Apparently the tune itself is called “Nettleton” and is an American folk tune believed to have been written in or around 1813.

I looked up Sing a New Church. The lyrics seem a bit random and disconnected.

 

[bquinnan]

I listened to “Sing a New Church” and it truly made me wonder, what’s wrong the the “Old Church”?

EXACTLY! I’m good with the Church that Christ founded, thank you. People have sung all kinds of new churches into being over the last 1,000 years or so – I don’t think that’s the answer.

 

[May1980]

I think it depends on the person. For me, I have the same experience of mass and wanting to go back for more when there is a loud band. Our church has this. I love the energy! So I sometimes go twice. And I’m singing the song in the car and noticing myself trying to be more kind. So to me, yes, it makes a difference how a mass is celebrated. We switched from a very solemn church and it just was not a good fit for us.

 

[Solomonson]

I think it depends on the person. For me, I have the same experience of mass and wanting to go back for more when there is a loud band. Our church has this. I love the energy! So I sometimes go twice. And I’m singing the song in the car and noticing myself trying to be more kind. So to me, yes, it makes a difference how a mass is celebrated. We switched from a very solemn church and it just was not a good fit for us.

Our music director is fairly decent at my parish. A few years back I remember her asking me about the potential use of a drum kit and electric guitars/basses at our Masses? I could hardly believe she was asking me such a question.

As steady as I could I asked “Why would you consider doing that? To attract more young people?” She nodded yes. Then I replied “I think it would have the exact opposite effect. It would drive them away.” That was the end of the conversation. I remember feeling terribly sad and she seemed sorry for asking me the question.

Thank God those instruments never became ingrained at my parish because it would have taken forever to eradicate them once they got a foothold.

 

[o_mlly]

…While I’m aware the grace that suffuses from any valid celebration of the Mass is identical, …

“… the Bride of Christ desires for every Mass a crowded church, being rightly convinced that from the unlimited treasures of the Mass much more grace will result to the individual from a service participated in by a full congregation, than from one attended merely by a few of the faithful.” newadvent.org/cathen/10006a.htm

The intrinsic merit of the Mass is infinite because Christ is infinite in His worth as High Priest and Victim. However, the extrinsic merit of the Mass varies and is based essentially upon six things. “These six things are intermediaries between the infinite efficaciousness of the Mass and those who receive the actual effects from the Mass.”
“The Merit of a Mass”
Fr. Chad Ripperger
Summer 2003
u.arizona.edu/~aversa/modernism/Merit%20of%20the%20Mass%20(Fr.%20Ripperger,%20F.S.S.P.).pdf

 

[IOGD]

Our music director is fairly decent at my parish. A few years back I remember her asking me about the potential use of a drum kit and electric guitars/basses at our Masses? I could hardly believe she was asking me such a question.

As steady as I could I asked “Why would you consider doing that? To attract more young people?” She nodded yes. Then I replied “I think it would have the exact opposite effect. It would drive them away.” That was the end of the conversation. I remember feeling terribly sad and she seemed sorry for asking me the question.

Thank God those instruments never became ingrained at my parish because it would have taken forever to eradicate them once they got a foothold.

Well said. As a young person, I can confirm that we don’t want to be coddled or anything. That kind of pandering is uncomfortable, awkward, and makes for an unplesant experience. More traditional music in touch with our Church’s patrimony of sacred music makes a bigger and deeper impact on the hearts of my generation.

 

[felsguy]

Well said. As a young person, I can confirm that we don’t want to be coddled or anything. That kind of pandering is uncomfortable, awkward, and makes for an unplesant experience. More traditional music in touch with our Church’s patrimony of sacred music makes a bigger and deeper impact on the hearts of my generation.

I respect that this is how you yourself feel but do you really think this is representative of your generation (even if considering just those who attend Mass regularly?)

 

[Solomonson]

I respect that this is how you yourself feel but do you really think this is representative of your generation (even if considering just those who attend Mass regularly?)

I actually do and I live on the Coast of California. If I duck into Mass at the local Newman Center Chapel or the “college Mass” at my parish, things seem more reverent, more solemn than the Masses at my parish which are filled with older people who are trying to hang onto the past.

 

[IOGD]

I respect that this is how you yourself feel but do you really think this is representative of your generation (even if considering just those who attend Mass regularly?)

For sure! In regards to young, committed Catholics, look at vocations. The majority of young priests today are very, very orthodox and in line with the tradition of the Church in all aspects. Same with vocations to the religious life. More traditional orders are blossoming with young vocations. These things are linked to traditional sacred music in an unmistakeable way.

Same for non-Catholics or non-committed Catholics. Again, it comes down to pandering. Looking at this in a secular setting-- an older person trying to act cool and play “hip” music to try to impress youth is more likely to be laughed at, etc. than someone who has confidence as well respect for our intellect to perform more complex, reflective, and beautiful music.

It’s an issue of older people being somewhat condescending and assuming that since we enjoy mainstream music, we will enjoy a subpar replacement of it in a religious setting. Church music trying to copy secular music will always be just that-- a second-rate copy. You just can’t compete with an industry that spends billions on figuring out exactly what it’s consumers want.

On the other hand, drawing on 2,000 years of ecclesiastical music circumvents this. It shows confidence and healthy pride in the artistic and cultural achievements of the Church. Young people are drawn to confident leaders. To be somewhat vulgar, that’s why gangs can be so powerful. So the Church needs to be confident! And copying secular music is simply not confident.

 

[dochawk]

Yes, I often wonder why priests don’t chant more. Whenever I hear a priest chant the Mass, I comment and thank him for chanting the Mass. They usually seem surprised, and seem to think I am complimenting them for their vocal quality.

If I was to name a single strongest reason I’ve gone Eastern Catholic, it would be the reverence of the liturgy

I’ve attended reverent RC Masses, but over the decades, they seemed to be more the exception than the rule.

Anyway, today Father mentioned that he still does occasional Masses for other churches, and the at the always chants the Eucharistic Prayer–and that is overwhelming well received. [If memory serves, he slipped in out of habit the first time without even realizing it!]

That’s not it - - - I don’t care if a priest has a great, bad, or mediocre voice - - the chanting is so beautiful and reverent! I wish all priests would chant more often.

Father did mention, though, that the latin priests simply are not trained in chant, and that he has had to suggest to a couple that they recite rather than chant until they got the training . . .

Eventually, someone may notice at a Mass that he’s using Slavonic rather than Gregorian chant . . .

AMDG

hawk

 

[dochawk]

I heard a priest, maybe Father Ripperger, say the available grace for all Masses is infinite, however, the amount is “metered” according to the holiness of the priest and the faithfulness of the congregation.

That kind of smacks of Donatism . . .

AMDG

hawk

 

[dochawk]

That’s all quite wonderful. I’ve heard of many stories, including the celebration of Masses on the hoods of Jeeps using coffee cups in wartime as attempts it seems, to reject the fact that “the way in which the Mass is celebrated DOES make a difference.”

If you find the book “The Other Catholics–Faithful and True” by a Russian Catholic priest whose name I forget (it’s somewhere in the next room), he mentions liturgy in the Soviet Gulag.

Under those conditions, no-one cared who was Catholic and who was Orthodox. They were grateful for a four minute (yes, 4!) Divine Liturgy dashed through while overlooked by guards for a moment, using the priest’s hand as the Holy Table, with bread hidden from a meager meal, and a bit of wine from a grape or two hidden away from a meal . . .

The book is well worth reading, although he has a bit of a (well earned) chip on his shoulder about the treatment of Eastern Catholics.

AMDG

hawk

 

[Solomonson]

If I was to name a single strongest reason I’ve gone Eastern Catholic, it would be the reverence of the liturgy

It’s interesting that you say that. While I have long been a bi-ritual Catholic laymen (don’t have a stroke, I know this is possible only in my heart) and have attended many, many, many beautiful Divine Liturgies, on more than a few occasions their celebration seems to result in a longer and more complicated liturgy but not one that I would necessarily call more solemn or reverent. I try to take pains not to conflate these different qualities.

One also has to consider the tiny number of EC priests vs. RC priests, and now much more close knit then their Roman counterparts are across the nation.

 

[pnewton]

I actually do and I live on the Coast of California. If I duck into Mass at the local Newman Center Chapel or the “college Mass” at my parish, things seem more reverent, more solemn than the Masses at my parish which are filled with older people who are trying to hang onto the past.

Appearances reflect as much about us as the reflect those around us. I would expect a Mass on a university would be different than that with a different demographic. Likewise, those who are older may have a more internal reverence that does isn’t as splashy as those younger or newer in the faith.

I would say that those who visit parishes that are not their own should respect the priest and the direction he is taking his parish. In one’s own parish, then it is laudable to assist in the liturgy, and acceptable to pass on one’s own concerns. It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness, at least a candle of prayer.