The way people dress to Mass

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Also no I dont think a dress code should be enforced. I do think though proper education should be given to the parish on what is an appropriate way to dress for attending Mass and what isnt and that if we see one of our parish members dress in an umbecoming way we should not judge them since we do not know the circumstances for why they did what they did.

However if they dress inappropriatly all the time and continue to do so then it is our duty to edify them and also help them get appriopriate clothing either by donation of clothing or the funds to get the clothing.
 
A simple dress code is good enough. The simple don’ts like mini-skirts, heavy metal themed t-shirts, etc. A dress code specifying shirt and ties would be too much. But saying specifically what clothes should not be worn should be okay, and it shouldn’t be so constricting that people really don’t have anything else to wear.
 
I have to admit I am one of those people who dresses very fashionable, fancy, yet modest. I respect others around me and there are kids present so I cover up as I should. I somewhat understand those who say “come as you are” because God loves you and doesn’t care how you dress…But its only for an hour a week. Why would you not want to dress up and look good for God?
I personally get offended when I see someone with flip flops or worn out jeans. We all have at least a few things in our closet that we use for special occassions. And yes, I do laundry on Sundays too. 😉
 
My question would be, if you were invited to the White House to meet the President, would you go as you are? In jeans or shorts etc.? I doubt it. Why would one give more honor to a mere man than to God.

A person doesn’t have to wear an expensive outfit, however wearing clothes you would wear to a ball game or barbeque, just doesn’t seem appropriate in the House of God.

Years ago no one would dare wear what they wear today to church. **Most protestants are much more careful in what they wear to church and they are not in the Presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ, Body, Soul and Divinity.**Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
Hmmmmm…when I was a Protestant I wasn’t that picky…sweatshirt, jeans, tennis shoes…it’s just a gym anyway.

But now I wear jeans with nice boots and a sweater…some might think that is to casual. But I’m torn on this one…when I see the same guy in gym shorts and tennis shoes, I think it’s gone a little too far…
 
Hmmmmm…when I was a Protestant I wasn’t that picky…sweatshirt, jeans, tennis shoes…it’s just a gym anyway.

But now I wear jeans with nice boots and a sweater…some might think that is to casual. But I’m torn on this one…when I see the same guy in gym shorts and tennis shoes, I think it’s gone a little too far…
That’s dress for a cowboy in Texas.
 
Blessed Veronica of Binasco …the Angel of God …he said, ‘Why dost thou not keep watch over thy heart? Why dost thou gaze thus curiously at thy sister? Thou hast committed no slight offense against God.’ Thus spoke the Angel…Now, when I hear Mass, I never venture so much as to turn my head…

***The Blessed Ivetta, herself a noble Flemish lady, had once a wonderful vision …woman of fashion, whom would at times seem to touch her lace or her ribbons as objects of which they had a care. The lady approached the altar-rails for holy Communion; the priest descended the steps, the adorable Sacrament in his hand, when, lo, the Saviour separated Himself from the sacred particle, and ascending heavenward, disappeared, refusing to enter the mouth of one so wretched as to carry her vanity into His very presence…(Wis. i. 4). ***
catholictradition.org/Eucharist/hidden-treasure3c.htm
The angel in Veronicas vision rebuke her for not keeping watch her heart, she instead was busy checking her sister (probably checking what she wore)

Blessed ivetta vision shows how fashion was vanity, thus fashion should not fill our heart.

So when we are at mass, we should not be busy checking what people wear. We also should not be busy thinking about “what I am wearing” : I should not worry whether my clothes appropriate or not.

I am glad that you say dress code shouldn’t be enforced.
 
The angel in Veronicas vision rebuke her for not keeping watch her heart, she instead was busy checking her sister (probably checking what she wore)

Blessed ivetta vision shows how fashion was vanity, thus fashion should not fill our heart.

So when we are at mass, we should not be busy checking what people wear. We also should not be busy thinking about “what I am wearing” : I should not worry whether my clothes appropriate or not.

I am glad that you say dress code shouldn’t be enforced.
I agree, but as I stated before dress code is different from modest dress. Simple as that. One can wear simple polo shirt and jeans from walmart, and not cause scandal even though it might not be “your best”, but if someone wears clothes that leave little to the imagination or cause scandal it’s a little hard to ignore and even cause others to commit the sin of lust. It will also seem that the person causing the scandal is in competition with out Lord for attention.
 
A man walks into a church, he is wearing flip flops, torn shorts, a dirty t-shirt and has hair that doesn’t look like it has been washed for 3 days. He sits down during service and prays. The parishioners look at him, some smile; some cringe; some are utterly disgusted; others do not care. Service has ended, and the man walks out of church. He goes home, eats a modest meal, and prays.

A man walks into a church, he is wearing nice slick black shoes, designer jeans, a polo shirt, and has his hair gelled. He sits down during service and prays. The parishioners look at him, some smile; some cringe; some are utterly disgusted; others do not care. Service has ended, and the man walks out of church. He goes home, eats a modest meal, and prays.

Both, are our brothers.
 
My question would be, if you were invited to the White House to meet the President, would you go as you are? In jeans or shorts etc.? I doubt it. Why would one give more honor to a mere man than to God.

A person doesn’t have to wear an expensive outfit, however wearing clothes you would wear to a ball game or barbeque, just doesn’t seem appropriate in the House of God.

Years ago no one would dare wear what they wear today to church. Most protestants are much more careful in what they wear to church and they are not in the Presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ, Body, Soul and Divinity.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
Jesus disciples did not dress up, they just wore whatever they had. I think there is reason why Jesus came as a carpenters son, not as glorious president. The pharisees were the ones who was busy with dress code.

People dress properly for human occasions. How can we dress properly for God? I mean He can see me even when I sit on toilet bowl.
 
I agree, but as I stated before dress code is different from modest dress. Simple as that. One can wear simple polo shirt and jeans from walmart, and not cause scandal even though it might not be “your best”, but if someone wears clothes that leave little to the imagination or cause scandal it’s a little hard to ignore and even cause others to commit the sin of lust. It will also seem that the person causing the scandal is in competition with out Lord for attention.
Sin of lust.

Sin of lust is caused by one’s idea about woman (or man) and sex.

A male gynecologist checking a womans vagina, does she cause him to fall into sin of lust?

How do you think men in some tribe in amazon or Borneo or polynesian islands treat their women ? Do they complain to their women for not “dressing properly” for they don’t wear bra?

I tell you this, if you plant in your mind that woman is an object of sin, you then would want to cover her from head to toes, allowing only her eyes to be exposed. So even if woman conform to this, a slight flash of her ankle would make your imagination fly.

Do you know that Adam and eve was naked in the presence of God, yet they only need clothes after they commit sin? How woman dress in church cannot make you fall into lust. Instead, “bad idea about woman” is the cause. And from where one get bad idea about woman? From porn, holywood movies, prostitutes, and religion.
 
'You carry your snare everywhere and spread your nets in all places. You allege that you never invited others to sin. You did not, indeed, by your words, but you have done so by your dress and your deportment. . . When you have made another sin in his heart, how can you be innocent? Tell me, whom does this world condemn? Whom do judges punish? Those who drink poison or those who prepare it and administer the fatal potion?

You have prepared the abominable cup, you have given the death dealing drink, and you are more criminal than are those who poison the body; you murder not the body but the soul.

And it is not to enemies you do this, nor are you urged on by any imaginary necessity, nor provoked by injury, but out of foolish vanity and pride.’

St. John Chrysostom, Father and Doctor of the Church

‘We must practice modesty, not only in our looks, but also in our whole deportment, and particularly in our dress, our walk, our conversation, and all similar actions.’

St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori, Doctor of the Church

‘But how can you know anything of the impression made on others? Who can assure you that others do not draw therefrom incentives to evil? You do not know the depths of human frailty. . . Oh, how truly was it said that if some Christian women could only suspect the temptations and falls they cause in others with modes of dress and familiarity in behavior, which they unthinkingly consider as of no importance, they would be shocked by the responsibility which is theirs.

Pope Pius XII
 
'You carry your snare everywhere and spread your nets in all places. You allege that you never invited others

To practice modesty is good, not to enforce Modesty on others. In doing so, one practice vanity (if I -or my wife- can dress properly, then why can’t you?).

St John crysostom, st alphonsus pope pus xii, they live long time ago. Their view towards woman was not the best, because the influence of how the culture at the time view woman. Jesus teach to love woman, and forgive a prostitute and view highly a prostitute who anoint His feet with oil. He didn’t enforce modesty on her.
 
A mass is a celebration … of thanksgiving.

Unfortunately for those who don’t like to dress for the occasion, a proper dress is indeed required … beginning with the priest, … and the altar servers … and the EHCMs … and the lectors. Too often we have the choirs wearing T-shirt and jeans but what difference it makes when they wear more presentable attires.

Someone said, God looks at our hearts. How true. Logically the hearts that please him would be the ones that value the occasion of the celebration. One who values the celebration would make an effort to be presentable. Anybody can be presentable; one does not have to be very rich or very poor. A worn out shirt that has seen better time if it is clean would surely enhance the wearer for the occasion. On the other hand, an expensive designer’s shirt but one that’s outrageous would likewise does the opposite.

We don’t have to go to both extremes in what we wear but the fact remains that the mass is an occasion of celebration. Perhaps a more pertinent question to be asked is, do we really believe it is so?
 
Shin;7556996 said:
'You carry your snare everywhere and spread your nets in all places. You allege that you never invited others

To practice modesty is good, not to enforce Modesty on others. In doing so, one practice vanity (if I -or my wife- can dress properly, then why can’t you?).

St John crysostom, st alphonsus pope pus xii, they live long time ago. Their view towards woman was not the best, because the influence of how the culture at the time view woman. Jesus teach to love woman, and forgive a prostitute and view highly a prostitute who anoint His feet with oil. He didn’t enforce modesty on her.
It is not humble and not Catholic to simply reject the teachings of Popes, doctors, and saints. We should be grateful for these things being revealed to us and thank God for them. 🙂

The responsibility of both men and women to wear modest clothing is a fundamental and non-negotiable part of Catholic moral law. It’s not something we can dispute about. If something is sinful, we are required not to do it. If something is virtuous, God calls us to it.

Nor does the teaching of Christ change with the times. Christ said ‘repent and sin no more’ not ‘continue to be and dress as a prostitute’.

We are not to conform to a corrupt age, culture, or society, but to embrace modesty. This can take time and learning, but it is absolutely required. 🙂

It is true there are corrupt times and this is one of them, but we as Christians are not to be people of the world but of Christ and Our Lady. 🙂

From the beginning until the end, modesty remains the same – the same moral truths for thousands of years being taught – isn’t that a beautiful sight?

‘The most insidious of sophisms are usually repeated to justify immodesty and seem to be the same everywhere.’

Pope Pius XII (d. 1958 A.D.)

‘Fashions that will greatly offend Our Lord will appear. People who follow God should not follow fashions. The Church has no fashions. Our Lord was always the same.’

Bl. Jacinta Marto of Fatima, age 9, from her last words

‘Let your modesty be known to all men. The Lord is nigh.’

Philippians 4:5

‘And the king went in to see the guests: and he saw there a man who had not on a wedding garment. And he saith to him: Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? But he was silent. Then the king said to the waiters: Bind his hands and feet, and* cast him into the exterior darkness:* there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen.’

Matthew 22:11-14

'St. John Chrysostom writes that the Lord is more inclined to show mercy to those who commit other more grievous sins, than to those who are guilty of the sin of scandal. What! says the Lord to the authors of scandal, are you not satisfied with offending me by your own sins? Do you wish to induce others also to insult me? In the Mirror of Examples, it is related that Jesus Christ said one day to a scandalous sinner, “Accursed wretch, you have despised what I have purchased by my blood.”

A mortal sin of scandal is committed by women who go about with their bosom immodestly exposed, or who expose their limbs improperly.

St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori, Doctor of the Church

‘If you desire to be one of the faithful and to please the Lord, O wife, do not add adornments to your beauty, in order to please other men. Do not wear fine embroidery, garments, or shoes, to entice those who are allured by such things. It may be that you do not do these wicked things for the purpose of sinning yourself — but only for the sake of adornment and beauty. Nevertheless, you still will not escape future punishment for having compelled another to look so close at you as to lust after you.’

Apostolic Constitutions
 
Those you quote are things of the past. Church fathers teaching is not nessesarily comply fully with church teaching.

John Paul II Apostolic Letter on woman dignity

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_15081988_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html

John Paul view woman highly. You don’t enforce modesty on others because your own way of looking at woman.

Remember a group of men came to Jesus with an adulterous woman. Jesus did not blame her as the cause of what happened. Surely the man whom she commit adulterous act with must be responsible of his own sin. So Jesus challenge all the men present on that day “he who is without sin can throw the first stone”. They all left without throwing any stone. They all know that they carry their own sin.

So if one have lust for a woman, he can’t blame it on the woman. It is his own imagination, how can you blame it on others?
 
The documents you linked to don’t support your position, on the contrary they support the opposite. 🙂

This is not something reformable, it’s basic moral law, it’s not something that changes with time or culture. Some cultures are more holy, some cultures have corrupt practices. Some times too. But Catholic morality is for all times. When many people are doing very wrong, and when it is not as bad as that.

There is a mutual responsibility of both men and women neither to lust, nor to give occasion to lust. Both are. ‘Repent and sin no more’ means there was sin, and responsibility. That is what Jesus said, ‘Go and sin no more.’ to the adulterous woman.

When Eve first ate the apple in Genesis, she sinned by taking the apple, and she sinned by -offering- the apple, which was evil to eat, to Adam. So daughters of Eve repeat the firsts sins of Eve, over and over again. Adam sins by taking the apple that is offered.

There is a -mutual- responsibility. -Both- are responsible. -Neither- gets a pass.

God puts clothing on people in Genesis. They put on clothes twice, because it is not enough clothing the first time. This is how God is telling people to dress modestly enough. We aren’t going back pre-Fall times in this life. So you don’t get to walk around naked and to blame other people when they react to it.

That’s shameless exhibitionism. It’s the natural law to blush with shame if you tried something like this. A person who forgets this, is no longer sensitive to this, has developed a habit of vice that has suppressed the natural shame.

God is kind to us, he gives us natural shame to not do this that has to be overcome by bad habits to suppress. 🙂

If you offer someone poison, you sin by offering it. If you offer someone your body by leaving it unclothed, or improperly clothed, you sin by offering it. What is open to the public that should remain secret and private, when you do this, it is a sin. Because those who see it, because of the body and concupiscence, desire it.

If a starving person is put into a bakery, and smells all those scents, to salivate is something that is a bodily reaction that cannot be helped, barring the extraordinary supernatural grace. To battle against this bodily reaction will then be difficult.

Lust is like this. But no woman has occasion to dress in a way that provokes it. It’s not as innocent as baking cakes.

Young men especially, innocent young men and boys, have to be trained in modesty of the eyes, not to look at what should not be looked at, and young women too, have to be trained in modesty of clothing especially. Because they can caused others to sin this way, and go to Hell forever.

And God holds you responsible for this. Because you can tempt other people when if you take responsibility, you quite easily do not have to.

Every person you help to send to Hell because you didn’t dress properly, God will remember in your judgement.

A young man, an early martyr and saint, was tied up, and they sent a prostitute to tempt him so he would give in to the mortal sin. He bit off his own tongue, because in no other way could be prevent his bodily reaction, and thenceforth the strong temptation.

This temptation is worse than cravings for food that women can get. A woman should sympathize and understand her position, just as men have to understand their position and sympathize.

Depending how bad a person is with immodesty, it either has to be immediately taken care of, or taken care of step by step with education. If someone is immodest in the parish the first step is normally to talk to the priest so the priest can talk to the person as he is likely the one most capable of doing so. Sometimes the immodesty is small enough it can be left for a little time so that the person can learn by imitating more modest dressers in the parish. Other times has to be dealt with immediately.

But immodesty is -always- a sin.

'We read also in Father Nieremberg that a noble lady, who was exceedingly pious, asked God to make known to her what displeased His Divine Majesty most in persons of her sex.

The Lord vouchsafed in a miraculous manner to hear her. He opened under her eyes the Eternal Abyss.

There she saw a woman a prey to cruel torments and in her recognized one of her friends, a short time before deceased. This sight caused her as much astonishment as grief: the person whom she saw damned did not seem to her to have lived badly.

Then that unhappy soul said to her: “It is true that I practiced religion, but I was a slave of vanity. Ruled by the passion to please, I was not afraid to adopt indecent fashions to attract attention, and I kindled the fire of impurity in more than one heart. Ah! If Christian women knew how much immodesty in dress displeases God!” At the same moment, this unhappy soul was pierced by two fiery lances, and plunged into a caldron of liquid lead.’

Rev. F.X. Schouppe, S.J.
 
Looks like this is turning into ANOTHER fruitless modesty thread. Unsubscribing!
 
Sin of lust.

Sin of lust is caused by one’s idea about woman (or man) and sex.

A male gynecologist checking a womans vagina, does she cause him to fall into sin of lust?

How do you think men in some tribe in amazon or Borneo or polynesian islands treat their women ? Do they complain to their women for not “dressing properly” for they don’t wear bra?

I tell you this, if you plant in your mind that woman is an object of sin, you then would want to cover her from head to toes, allowing only her eyes to be exposed. So even if woman conform to this, a slight flash of her ankle would make your imagination fly.

Do you know that Adam and eve was naked in the presence of God, yet they only need clothes after they commit sin? How woman dress in church cannot make you fall into lust. Instead, “bad idea about woman” is the cause. And from where one get bad idea about woman? From porn, holywood movies, prostitutes, and religion.
All I can say is wow I am ont even going to argue with that
 
Sin of lust.

Sin of lust is caused by one’s idea about woman (or man) and sex.

A male gynecologist checking a womans vagina, does she cause him to fall into sin of lust?

How do you think men in some tribe in amazon or Borneo or polynesian islands treat their women ? Do they complain to their women for not “dressing properly” for they don’t wear bra?

I tell you this, if you plant in your mind that woman is an object of sin, you then would want to cover her from head to toes, allowing only her eyes to be exposed. So even if woman conform to this, a slight flash of her ankle would make your imagination fly.

Do you know that Adam and eve was naked in the presence of God, yet they only need clothes after they commit sin? How woman dress in church cannot make you fall into lust. Instead, “bad idea about woman” is the cause. And from where one get bad idea about woman? From porn, holywood movies, prostitutes, and religion.
Sounds like Theology of the Body. Yes, our bodies are created by God and are good and wonderful and full of dignity. But our society has objectified the body and demoted it to a mere plaything. We think of the sexual organs as nothing more than tools for sex. They are dirty and when we see them we either shamed by it or lusted by it. That shouldn’t be the case, but we can’t help with our fallen nature.

While what you have stated is true, we should recognize the common mentality in our society today. We should do our best to avoid the occassion for sin, for ourselves and for others. Modest dressing means responsbility. Sure, rape still happens in the middle east eeven if the women are wearing burquas. But that doesn’t mean we should toe the line in an already sexually charged society.
 
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