The way people dress to Mass

[StTommyMore]

Did many women wear pants to Mass prior to the Second Vatican Council? If not, then I’d say Shin is promoting the traditional Catholic perspective on this subject. Would you call chapel veils a paranoid mindset showing a fear of women? I may or may not agree with Shin’s position but it seems to reflect the traditional perspective to me. As I suspect most women did not wear pants to Mass prior to the Second Vatican Council, your assessment would apply to the great Church prior to 1960. Is that fair?

Women as a general rule didn’t wear pants often prior to 1960. It did occur some, but dresses/skirts were the cultural norm.

As far as the “great Church” prior to 1960: It is a myth. Abuses happened. Seminaries were not effectively training priests. The Church was still operating in an adversarial mindset with non-Catholic Christians. Scriptural literacy was in shambles. Catechesis took the form of rote memorization without addressing understanding.

My last paragraph is a misrepresentation, accentuating the problems prior to the Second Vatican Council. I freely admit this. But it was done with a goal in mind: to remind all of us that problems existed in the Church prior to Vatican 2. Some of these problems have continued. Some are worse. Some have gotten better. The point is we cannot fall into the “good old days” mindset.

 

[mdrummer5]

No, you are absolutely 100% right. Sunday best means just that. You wear the best clothes in your closet for Sunday Mass.

I have to disagree with this. Without getting into the moral discussion of lust etc. I think it’s somewhere in the middle.

I have a $300 suit in my closet. It is the nicest outfit I own and is reserved for weddings and/or funerals. I think the average guy can say this as well.

On Sundays I wear jeans and a nice shirt or sweater that covers my tattoos and doesn’t have anything inappropriate on it.

However, there is definitely a point where some clothing is inappropriate and it works both ways for men and women. For instance I would not show up in the gear that I play my drums in… gym shorts, a sleeveless t-shirt and a random pair of sneakers just like I disagree with how I’ve seen some women dress. When I was at Christmas mass (this one always sticks out to me more than others becuase it was Christmas I suppose) there were girls wearing things that they could’ve very easily been on a street corner wearing. Both are examples that most jobs and schools would not approve of… if we will make those concessions for a job or for school we AT LEAST owe that to God.

 

[OurLadyPerpHelp]

Actually, I meant the “greater Church”. My apologies, I’m trying to complete two projects while keeping an eye on this discussion.

My point is that if women not wearing pants is a paranoid mindset fearful of women then that describes the greater Church prior to the 1960s. Is that a fair comment to make?

My other point is that if women didn’t wear pants to Mass prior to the 1960s then this can be described as the traditional position, can it not? So, all Shin is doing is passing along the traditional perspective. Again, I may disagree with him, but at least he is not unduly looking for argument and confrontation.

 

[Lormar]

Did many women wear pants to Mass prior to the Second Vatican Council? If not, then I’d say Shin is promoting the traditional Catholic perspective on this subject. Would you call chapel veils a paranoid mindset showing a fear of women? I may or may not agree with Shin’s position but it seems to reflect the traditional perspective to me. As I suspect most women did not wear pants to Mass prior to the Second Vatican Council, your assessment would apply to the great Church prior to 1960. Is that fair?

A woman wouldn’t have been caught dead walking into Church wearing pants. My own mother never wore a pair of pants until she had to go to work in 1967 due to my father’s illness, and my sister had to talk her into it.

Even as a young girl in high school, I would never go anywhere without wearing either a dress or a skirt and blouse.

As time went on, more and more people started to relax their standards regarding dress. And you see the results of that relaxation now.

 

[StTommyMore]

A woman wouldn’t have been caught dead walking into Church wearing pants. My own mother never wore a pair of pants until she had to go to work in 1967 due to my father’s illness, and my sister had to talk her into it.

Even as a young girl in high school, I would never go anywhere without wearing either a dress or a skirt and blouse.

As time went on, more and more people started to relax their standards regarding dress. And you see the results of that relaxation now.

If you are trying to imply that women wearing pants led to the rampant sexual immorality of the post-modern era, I disagree. The relaxing of sexual morality had less to do with what people wear and more to do with the post-modern rejection of absolute morality.

 

[archangel04]

I’m getting that impression and now seek to understand why. I see you are new here too. Do you know why non-traditional Catholics wish to discuss traditional Catholicism with traditional Catholics? I’ve come here to learn but it seems others are here to debate. We should all have better things to do with our time than engage in senseless debates with one another. This division makes me wonder if Satan is up to his old tricks again.

It’s always the same deal, someone post a question about a practice of something “old” and the “usual” crowd always jump on boar and debate, derail, or stirr the hornet’s nest causing the thread to be closed. I’ve made peace with it and just figure it’s a waste of time to be debating online.

 

[OurLadyPerpHelp]

Women’s fashion includes much more provocative elements then men’s. Men’s clothes are not generally designed to show off leg or chest features. It is easier for women to attract attention by the clothes she chooses. I guess that is the intention of these guidelines or rules: that women dress in a way that does not bring attention to them in any regard thus allowing everyone’s attention to stay on the liturgy.

 

[OurLadyPerpHelp]

I can live with that, but again, I believe the traditional Catholic perpective does not.

 

[Lormar]

Can someone have an opinion that doesn’t accord with your own?

Furthermore, don’t put words in my mouth. Isn’t baiting a poster against the rules?

 

[Lormar]

What a scream you are!!

 

[OurLadyPerpHelp]

I must say that I’m still very much confused as to what goes on here. Whether I agree with it or not, I think it’s safe to say that a particular custom of traditional Catholics is for women to not wear pants to Mass. Is that safe to say or am I way off base here?

If women not wearing pants is indeed a traditional Catholic custom then it makes sense to find it promoted in the traditional Catholic forum. Why then is it being debated here?

If I went into the Eastern Rites forum and debated/insulted some of their customs I would expect to get called out on it. Am I missing something here?

I ask because I have many questions regarding the Latin Mass and its relationship with the standard Mass. I suppose I can find the answers eventually on my own, but it would be nice to rely on people with the knowledge and experience who have the answers on the tips of their tongues. That would be nice indeed. However, from what I’ve seen so far it seems like debate and argument is common here and I just don’t have the time nor inclination to argue with faceless strangers behind computer screens. Does anyone have advice as to how I should proceed?

 

[freerf]

There’s the literal sense and the spiritual sense, and so forth, you can’t just take the one of the scriptures. I think if it was unfair in the literal sense… it would not have been used.

May the most Precious Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ wash away our sins.

so we should literally take the poorly dressed offenders and “‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and throw him into the outer darkness; there is where the weeping and grinding of teeth will be.”

I don’t think it is meant to be literal.

 

[Nostradennis]

I must say that I’m still very much confused as to what goes on here. Whether I agree with it or not, I think it’s safe to say that a particular custom of traditional Catholics is for women to not wear pants to Mass. Is that safe to say or am I way off base here?

Not off base at all. In all the traditional circles that I know of women wearing slacks to Church would not get past the usher.

If women not wearing pants is indeed a traditional Catholic custom then it makes sense to find it promoted in the traditional Catholic forum. Why then is it being debated here?

This traditionalist forum is loaded, no dripping with non traditionalists from this web site. Very odd. Maybe we’re seen as some sort of conservative link to the “oppressive” Catholic past. There’s never any real curiosity as to what a traditionalist thinks but only an axe to grind.

I ask because I have many questions regarding the Latin Mass and its relationship with the standard Mass. I suppose I can find the answers eventually on my own, but it would be nice to rely on people with the knowledge and experience who have the answers on the tips of their tongues. That would be nice indeed. However, from what I’ve seen so far it seems like debate and argument is common here and I just don’t have the time nor inclination to argue with faceless strangers behind computer screens. Does anyone have advice as to how I should proceed?

I’m pretty familiar with all things traditional. You can ask me anything at anytime:thumbsup:

 

[Nostradennis]

I have a $300 suit in my closet. It is the nicest outfit I own and is reserved for weddings and/or funerals.

Funerals and weddings are a more preeminent event than the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass?
Raise the bar and wear it to Church on Sunday.

 

[OurLadyPerpHelp]

Isn’t Holy Mass like a funeral in a way…Jesus dying on the Cross for our sins. What would you wear to Calvary?

 

[catharina]

A woman wouldn’t have been caught dead walking into Church wearing pants. My own mother never wore a pair of pants until she had to go to work in 1967 due to my father’s illness, and my sister had to talk her into it.

Even as a young girl in high school, I would never go anywhere without wearing either a dress or a skirt and blouse.

As time went on, more and more people started to relax their standards regarding dress. And you see the results of that relaxation now.

Do you know that Catholic Sisters who have gone to work in refugee camps in Asia, were instructed to wear slacks and shirts so they would “blend in” with the populations.

Did those Sisters do evil in complying with
an imposed dress code, in service of the poor?

 

[OurLadyPerpHelp]

I’m pretty familiar with all things traditional. You can ask me anything at anytime:thumbsup:

Thank you. I’m sure I"ll take you up on that offer.

 

[Nostradennis]

We need to get away from legalistic “rules,” and look at the spirit of what true modesty is.

And which spirit would that be? The Spirit Of God, the Spirit of Nature or the Spirit of the Devil.

 

[catharina]

No offense, but that read like the dress code of the Fundamentalist Bible college I attended for a year. We need to get away from legalistic “rules,” and look at the spirit of what true modesty is.

It helps also to remember that we are part of the Catholic Church.
That includes an enormous group of people - and they are all over the world.
Why would “Western” Catholics invent a dress code for themselves?

Most women in Asia (China, Vietnam, Cambodia, etc.) wear SLACKS.
What’s the problem - other than the fact that some people want Western Dress for all?

In other words, Tom-More, I agree with you.

 

[JanetF]

Personally, I go for clean and covering all body parts. Which means I’ll wear jeans and turtle necks in the winter, AND if I’m cold, I’ll keep my coat on, but I stay through “this mass is ended, let us go in peace…”. In the summer, I might wear a dress, but never shortts, and never sleeveless shirts. I don’t allow my daughter towear torn jeans or t’s with sayings on them unless it’s something like “lifeguard…mine walks on water” or with a scripture quote. I don’t get the big deal about coats…sometimes the pews are full of people and it’s easier to keep the coat on, sometimes it’s cold, but keeping it on doesn’t mean it gets you out of church any earlier…a person couldl just grab and run if they really were in a rush…besides, I couldn’t care less about what others are doing. glass houses and stones and all.