The Wedding of Jesus

[benedictgal]

I would dispute Paul’s backgound. There’s some indication that he was not exactly the most learned of Jews and I had discussed this at length in an older thread. Having said that, I’m sure he knew enough to recognize the importance of marriage in the Jewish community.

Paul was educated by no less than Gamliel, himself, considered by many Jews to be one of the greatest teachers of his era. It would be as though a young Catholic theological student were to have been taught by Fr. Joseph Ratzinger, himself (now Pope Benedict XVI).

St. Paul knew his scriptures very well. That is why he is able to refute the Pharisees with their own words.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Simply because at the time Luke gave to those women an epitet for identification, it was before the wedding when the only epitet he had for this Mary was “the one called the Magdalene.” Doubtless because of her business in Magdala. (Luke 8:2)

Ben:

Hrm… you would think that being the wife of the SAVIOUR would totally outweigh a business.

 

[paarsurrey]

I would dispute Paul’s backgound. There’s some indication that he was not exactly the most learned of Jews and I had discussed this at length in an older thread. Having said that, I’m sure he knew enough to recognize the importance of marriage in the Jewish community.

Hi

Kindly provide me the link of that thread. I want to read it.

Thanks

 

[Valke2]

Paul was educated by no less than Gamliel, himself, considered by many Jews to be one of the greatest teachers of his era. It would be as though a young Catholic theological student were to have been taught by Fr. Joseph Ratzinger, himself (now Pope Benedict XVI).

St. Paul knew his scriptures very well. That is why he is able to refute the Pharisees with their own words.

I know that is what your scripture says. I don’t believe it. I think Paul was lying about that. I will post my reasons in more detail later. I want to find the thread where I first set them out.

 

[Valke2]

Paul’s motivation for lying about being a Jew would have been to add credence to his preaching when he was talking about Jesus to other Jews.

Scholars believe that Paul did not understand Hebrew, that he did not study with the rabbi he claimed to have studied under, and that there are things that he said that would seem highly unusual, if they were said by an educated 1st century jews.

In his letters, Paul depicts himself as a Jew of the most solid family lineage, religious principles, and educational background that one could imagine. At one point he tells a group of Jews “I am a Jew, born at Tarsus in Cilicia, but brought up on this city at the feet of Gamaliel, educated according to the strict manner of the law of our fathers, being zealous for God as you all are this day.” Acts 22:3.

Right off the bat, my jew radar is blinking “danger.”

He goes on to delcare that he is a Pharisee 23:6;

In his letters, he writes “I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my own age …so zealous was I for the tradtiions of my fathers” (or words to that effect). Gal. 1:14

He goes on to talk about his circumcision (???) and says he’s from the tribe of Benjamin. By this time, the jew radar alert is going into hyperdrive.

Regarding his claim to be the son of Pharisees. Scholars have a hard time believing there were many Parisees in Galilee at the time. ANd the presence of such jews further North in Tarsus was even more unlikely. It would be like a Jew today saying he is descended from a long line of orthodox jews in Arkansas. Possible but not likely.

Then there is his claim that his family came from the tribe of Benjamin. Such tribal distinctions were lost around 536 BCE. A jewish family from Tarsus in 1st Century CE claiming to trace its roots back to the tribe of Benjamin? Not likely. Keep in mind that the Talmud expressly states that we do not know if we are descended from Leah or Rachel. A religously knowledgeable Jew would have known this. Only a gentile or uneducated Jew could make such a claim and hope to be believed.

Then there is his assertion that he knew Hebrew. Something most jews in 1st century CE did not know. But it seems clear Paul could not read Hebrew. WHenever he cites from the Bible, he is clearly doing so from the Septuagint. The Septuagint does not always adhere to the original Hebrew meaning. The result is the misunderstanding of important passages in Torah, that Paul ushers into Christanity. (See Macoby, "The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity, p. 70). ALso, see Sanders, “Paul and Palestine Judaism,” p.137, for an example of Paul’s reliance on a mistranslation. All of which indicates that he did not read Hebrew.

 

[Valke2]

If Paul wasn’t able to read Hebrew fluently which, according to David Klinghoffer in “Why The Jews Rejected Jesus”, Modern Historians agree was the case, then it is highly unlikely that he ever studied with Rabbi Gamaliel. This Rabbi was a big muckity muck and there’s no way his student’s didn’t study in Hebrew. anyone who studied “at his feet” would be the top Jewish scholars of their time. ANy such person would absoultely be able to understand the Torah in its original Hebrew.

But Paul’s letters give the impression of someone who is not familiar with the Hebrew Bible and is not familar with rabbinic tradition. See Acts 4:13.

Given all this (and more), it is not surprising that jews mistrusted him.

And then there is his reaction to being rejected by Jews. He takes his show on the road, as it were, and changes his message for the gentiles. All of a sudden, there is no need for circumcision or for the convert to obey the commandments of the Torah.

Here’s a link to the thread where I originally posted this…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=114399&highlight=valke2+paul

 

[Ben_Masada]

These are not assumptions, but fact, pure and simple. Again, I challenge you to read the Old Testament. The intended sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham foreshadows the actual sacrifice of Jesus, the eternal Son of the Living God. The sacrifice of the lamb at Passover prefigures and anticipates the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross.

Paul received what he preached from Jesus. He notes that in his first letter to the Corinthians.

Please do not compare Jesus with Greek Mythology.

The intended sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham foreshadows no sacrifice of Jesus. Isaac was only to foreshadow
the role of Israel in the Counsel of God. Isaak was the prototype of Israel, the People that came out of him. You insert Jesus on an individual basis as a result of assumptions. And I tell you why. Because you assume that Jesus was the only Jew the Romans crucified. Why don’t you read Josephus? Thousands of Jews were
crucified by the Romans in the very same manner Jesus was crucified. The blood of the others doesn’t count?

One million and a half children were burned alive in the Holocaust just because they were Jews. Children who didn’t know their right from their left. If Jesus could know what they went through, he would be happy that he didn’t have to suffer that much. Their pain didn’t count? Can you see how unfair faith can make of religious people?

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

Hrm… you would think that being the wife of the SAVIOUR would totally outweigh a business.

Why don’t you first explain to me in what
sense was Jesus a saviour? Because what I have from Isaiah 43:11 is the following: “It is I, I the Lord; there is no Saviour but me.” Was the Almighty lying? I didn’t think so. And when Jesus was asked about the first of the commandments in Mark 12:29, he answered and said that “The Lord our God is One and the only Lord.” Did Jesus lie? I didn’t think so. Therefore, get a grip at yourself and remove these faithful patches from your eyes. Because where faith begins, knowledge ends; and for lack of knowledge people perish. (Hosea 4:6)

Ben:

 

[benedictgal]

Paul’s motivation for lying about being a Jew would have been to add credence to his preaching when he was talking about Jesus to other Jews.

Scholars believe that Paul did not understand Hebrew, that he did not study with the rabbi he claimed to have studied under, and that there are things that he said that would seem highly unusual, if they were said by an educated 1st century jews.

In his letters, Paul depicts himself as a Jew of the most solid family lineage, religious principles, and educational background that one could imagine. At one point he tells a group of Jews “I am a Jew, born at Tarsus in Cilicia, but brought up on this city at the feet of Gamaliel, educated according to the strict manner of the law of our fathers, being zealous for God as you all are this day.” Acts 22:3.

Right off the bat, my jew radar is blinking “danger.”

He goes on to delcare that he is a Pharisee 23:6;

In his letters, he writes “I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my own age …so zealous was I for the tradtiions of my fathers” (or words to that effect). Gal. 1:14

He goes on to talk about his circumcision (???) and says he’s from the tribe of Benjamin. By this time, the jew radar alert is going into hyperdrive.

Regarding his claim to be the son of Pharisees. Scholars have a hard time believing there were many Parisees in Galilee at the time. ANd the presence of such jews further North in Tarsus was even more unlikely. It would be like a Jew today saying he is descended from a long line of orthodox jews in Arkansas. Possible but not likely.

Then there is his claim that his family came from the tribe of Benjamin. Such tribal distinctions were lost around 536 BCE. A jewish family from Tarsus in 1st Century CE claiming to trace its roots back to the tribe of Benjamin? Not likely. Keep in mind that the Talmud expressly states that we do not know if we are descended from Leah or Rachel. A religously knowledgeable Jew would have known this. Only a gentile or uneducated Jew could make such a claim and hope to be believed.

Then there is his assertion that he knew Hebrew. Something most jews in 1st century CE did not know. But it seems clear Paul could not read Hebrew. WHenever he cites from the Bible, he is clearly doing so from the Septuagint. The Septuagint does not always adhere to the original Hebrew meaning. The result is the misunderstanding of important passages in Torah, that Paul ushers into Christanity. (See Macoby, "The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity, p. 70). ALso, see Sanders, “Paul and Palestine Judaism,” p.137, for an example of Paul’s reliance on a mistranslation. All of which indicates that he did not read Hebrew.

These sources that you quote are no more valid than Homer and his pantheon of Greek gods. We have Divine Revelation that reveals the Truth.

The mother of St. John the Baptist was from the daughters of Aaron, which means that she was a Levite. Jesus came from the House of David, which was from tribe of Judah. In Genesis, Jacob tells Judah that the scepter shall not depart from between his legs. This meant that the Messiah would come from his line. This Messiah is Jesus.

The prophet Isaiah predicted that a virgin would conceive and bear a son and name him Emmanuel. This, again, points to Jesus.

Now, to say that Paul invented Christianity is, with all due respect, to put a limitation on God’s power and might. His Son appeared to St. Paul on the road to Damascus where he was going to persecute the Christians and bring them back to Jerusalem to be tried before the Jews of that time. St. Paul was a zealous, pious and devout Jew. He sincerely believed that what the Christians were doing was wrong. Like his fellow Jews, he did not believe that God could condescend himself to take on a human form and come down and save us. However, the conversion experience that he underwent opened his eyes, both literally and figuratively.

Did not Samuel and Isaiah have that experience? Samuel did not have know that the Lord was calling for him. Isaiah was stunned that he could experience the glory of God and survive.

Remember, too, that the Lord told Moses that he could not look upon His face, lest the glory be too much for him. Rather, God told Moses that He would pass him by and that he would only see the Lord from the back. Through His Divine Son, Jesus Christ, God has shown us that He has a face, that He can converse with us and that He has a body, which he sacrificed for our salvation.

What you are basing yourself on is what the Council of Yamnia came up with where they totally disregarded the Greek version of the Sacred Scriptures simply because they were not written in Hebrew. However, the Greek-language scripture was known by the Jews of Jesus’ time. The Church has the complete Scripture., as she is the New Israel. In her are found the fulfillment of all of the promises and the foreshadowing that occured in Ancient Israel.

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

The intended sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham foreshadows no sacrifice of Jesus. Isaac was only to foreshadow
the role of Israel in the Counsel of God. Isaak was the prototype of Israel, the People that came out of him. You insert Jesus on an individual basis as a result of assumptions. And I tell you why. Because you assume that Jesus was the only Jew the Romans crucified. Why don’t you read Josephus? Thousands of Jews were
crucified by the Romans in the very same manner Jesus was crucified. The blood of the others doesn’t count?

One million and a half children were burned alive in the Holocaust just because they were Jews. Children who didn’t know their right from their left. If Jesus could know what they went through, he would be happy that he didn’t have to suffer that much. Their pain didn’t count? Can you see how unfair faith can make of religious people?

Ben:

Christians believe Jesus came in fulfilment of Jewish Scripture. Considering Jesus preached only in Israel in His lifetime and converted only Jews, it does mean something. Christianity was spread by Jewish converts to Christianity. Paul had been an overzealous Pharisee who knew his Jewish Scripture well enough (didn’t I mention that at least a couple of times?).

Of course the Holocaust was horrific. Nobody denies that. But it is not fair to lump the life and death and resurrection of Jesus, a life on which a world religion was founded, to Jewish genocide. Buddha was not persecuted or crucified at all, yet he founded a religion, which was actively spread much like Christianity and later developed into a world religion.

 

[Ben_Masada]

BEN MASADA-

Jesus said, “I and the Father are one.”

The gospel also says, “Jesus and his disciples were also invited/called.”

You have not provided a satisfactory response to either of these verses.

I also asked what book you are getting all this nonsense from. You have not answered.

Jesus, a Jewish man, claimed to be God. Other Jewish men believed Him, and died as martyrs rather than deny this belief.

We’re **STILL **waiting for your responses…now that your “Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene at Cana” nonsense has been debunked, perhaps you can deal them.

Thanks.

I have provided more than an adequate response to all the above. The problem with you is that you have patched your eyes with blind faith. You do not understand that where faith begins, knowledge ends; and for lack of knowledge people perish.
(Hosea 4:6) That’s why my responses do not satisfy you. Perhaps you have reached a point beyond repair. I am sorry.

Ben:

 

[benedictgal]

Why don’t you first explain to me in what
sense was Jesus a saviour? Because what I have from Isaiah 43:11 is the following: “It is I, I the Lord; there is no Saviour but me.” Was the Almighty lying? I didn’t think so. And when Jesus was asked about the first of the commandments in Mark 12:29, he answered and said that “The Lord our God is One and the only Lord.” Did Jesus lie? I didn’t think so. Therefore, get a grip at yourself and remove these faithful patches from your eyes. Because where faith begins, knowledge ends; and for lack of knowledge people perish. (Hosea 4:6)

Ben:

Jesus referered to himself as “I AM” many times in the Gospel according to St. John. Jesus is God made man. That is the part that, with all due respect, you do not understand. All of the prophecies of the Old Testament, the Hebrew scriptures, if you will, point directly to Him. Because He is God, the Second Person of the Trinity (with the Father being the First and the Holy Spirit being the Third), he is incapable of lying.

The Holy Trinity was already mentioned thrice in the book of Genesis. “Let us make man in OUR own image.” "Let us go down: to Babel and see what they are doing. Abraham had “three visitors” whom he invited as a token of hospitatlity. These three were the Trinity.

 

[JReducation]

There is only one problem here. Jesus was not a Rabbi. The Rabbinical tradition did not begin until the end of the Jewish priesthood. The Jewish priesthood was very much alive and well in Jesus lifetime.

Jesus was called Teacher, which is also translated as Rabbi. But he was not part of the Rabbinical school. That did not begin until the first century after the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD.

Fraternally,

JR

THE WEDDING OF JESUS

Jesus was a Rabbi and here are the proofs: Matthew 23:7; John 1:38; 3:2; 20:16. The point is that a Rabbi in Israel had to be a married man. Then, according to Judaism, after the proper procedures, the Jewish prospect would undergo the ceremonial “mikveh” or immersion in waters before ordination.

Ben:

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Why don’t you first explain to me in what
sense was Jesus a saviour? Because what I have from Isaiah 43:11 is the following: “It is I, I the Lord; there is no Saviour but me.” Was the Almighty lying? I didn’t think so. And when Jesus was asked about the first of the commandments in Mark 12:29, he answered and said that “The Lord our God is One and the only Lord.” Did Jesus lie? I didn’t think so. Therefore, get a grip at yourself and remove these faithful patches from your eyes. Because where faith begins, knowledge ends; and for lack of knowledge people perish. (Hosea 4:6)

Ben:

Well… let’s see…

The Gospel According to St. John 1:-5
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

The First Epistle of St. John 5:7
And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

The Gospel According to St. John 10: 30
I and the Father are one.

footnote from that statement: “I and the Father are one”… That is, one divine nature, but two distinct persons.

And then more from that chapter: 10:36-38
Do you say of him whom the Father hath sanctified and sent into the world: Thou blasphemest, because I said, I am the Son of God? If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though you will not believe me, believe the works: that you may know and believe that the Father is in me, and I in the Father

I have more-
The Gospel According to St. Matthew 8:28-29
And when he was come on the other side of the water, into the country of the Gerasens, there met him two that were possessed with devils, coming out of the sepulchres, exceeding fierce, so that none could pass by that way. And behold they cried out, saying: *What have we to do with thee, Jesus Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? *

Hrm… even demons know who He is!

The Gospel According to St. Mark 1: 1-3
The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. As it is written in Isaias the prophet: Behold I send my angel before thy face, who shall prepare the way before thee. A voice of one crying in the desert: Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight his paths.

So… not only is He the Son of God, but He is the One who was prophesied about by the Prophets!

The Gospel According to St. Mark 3: 11-12
And the unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him: and they cried, saying: Thou art the Son of God. And he strictly charged them that they should not make him known.

Again… even the Demons know who He is!

The Gospel According to St. Luke 1:35
And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God

 

[PatienceAndLove]

And then there is that whole Transfiguration thing…

The Gospel According to St. Mark 9: 1-6
And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter and James and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves, and was transfigured before them. And his garments became shining and exceeding white as snow, so as no fuller upon earth can make white. And there appeared to them Elias with Moses; and they were talking with Jesus. And Peter answering, said to Jesus: Rabbi, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles, one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. For he knew not what he said: for they were struck with fear.

And there was a cloud overshadowing them: and *a voice came out of the cloud, saying: This is my most beloved son; hear ye him. *

Hrm… God TOLD us that this was his Son. Awesome!

The Gospel According to St. Luke 9: 29-35
And whilst he prayed, the shape of his countenance was altered, and his raiment became white and glittering. And behold* two men were talking with him. And they were Moses and Elias,* Appearing in majesty. And they spoke of his decease that he should accomplish in Jerusalem. But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep. And waking, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him. And it came to pass, that as they were departing from him, Peter saith to Jesus: Master, it is good for us to be here; and let us make three tabernacles, one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias; not knowing what he said. And as he spoke these things, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them; and they were afraid, when they entered into the cloud.* And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: This is my beloved Son; hear him.*

Again with the telling us…

The Gospel According to St. Matthew 17: 1-7
And after six days Jesus taketh unto him Peter and James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart: And he was transfigured before them. And his face did shine as the sun: and his garments became white as snow. And behold there appeared to them Moses and Elias talking with him. And Peter answering, said to Jesus: Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles, one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. And as he was yet speaking, behold a bright cloud overshadowed them. And lo, a voice out of the cloud, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased: hear ye him.
And the disciples hearing, fell upon their face, and were very much afraid. And Jesus came and touched them: and said to them, Arise, and fear not.

So, not only do we have God speaking, we also have the disciples hiding there faces before God. Hrm… sounds convincing to me.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

And then there was the Baptism of Jesus…

The Gospel According to St. Matthew 3: 16-17
And Jesus being baptized, forthwith came out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened to him: and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him. And behold a voice from heaven, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Wow… TWICE God called Him His Son.

The Gospel According to St. Luke 3: 21-22
Now it came to pass, when all the people were baptized, that Jesus also being baptized and praying, heaven was opened; And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape, as a dove upon him; and a voice came from heaven: Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Again with “this is my Son”!

The Gospel According to St. Mark 1: 9-11
And it came to pass, in those days, Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized by John in the Jordan. And forthwith coming up out of he water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit as a dove descending, and remaining on him.
1And there came a voice from heaven: ***Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased. ***

Pretty cool!

 

[benedictgal]

And then there is that whole Transfiguration thing…

The Gospel According to St. Mark 9: 1-6
And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter and James and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves, and was transfigured before them. And his garments became shining and exceeding white as snow, so as no fuller upon earth can make white. And there appeared to them Elias with Moses; and they were talking with Jesus. And Peter answering, said to Jesus: Rabbi, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles, one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. For he knew not what he said: for they were struck with fear.

And there was a cloud overshadowing them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying: This is my most beloved son; hear ye him.

Hrm… God TOLD us that this was his Son. Awesome!

The Gospel According to St. Luke 9: 29-35
And whilst he prayed, the shape of his countenance was altered, and his raiment became white and glittering. And behold* two men were talking with him. And they were Moses and Elias,* Appearing in majesty. And they spoke of his decease that he should accomplish in Jerusalem. But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep. And waking, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him. And it came to pass, that as they were departing from him, Peter saith to Jesus: Master, it is good for us to be here; and let us make three tabernacles, one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias; not knowing what he said. And as he spoke these things, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them; and they were afraid, when they entered into the cloud.* And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: This is my beloved Son; hear him*.

Again with the telling us…

The Gospel According to St. Matthew 17: 1-7
And after six days Jesus taketh unto him Peter and James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart: And he was transfigured before them. And his face did shine as the sun: and his garments became white as snow. And behold there appeared to them Moses and Elias talking with him. And Peter answering, said to Jesus: Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles, one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. And as he was yet speaking, behold a bright cloud overshadowed them. And lo, a voice out of the cloud, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased: hear ye him.
And the disciples hearing, fell upon their face, and were very much afraid. And Jesus came and touched them: and said to them, Arise, and fear not.

So, not only do we have God speaking, we also have the disciples hiding there faces before God. Hrm… sounds convincing to me.

Something else to consider is that what happened to Moses on Mount Sinai foreshadowed what would happen to Jesus at the Transfiguration, only, there is a huge difference. Moses face shined rather brightly; however, it was not of his own power. Rather, the brightness came as a result of contact with the presence of God. The brightness of Jesus, on the other hand, came from within him because He is no less than God. Furthermore, he has the testimony of two witnesses, Moses and Elijah, the Law and the Prophets, along, of course, with the testimony of God the Father, Himself.

Remember in one of the Gospels, John’s I believe, Jesus says that if there are two or more witnesses supporting a man’s statements, then the words are credible. Well, Jesus had God the Father supporting him, and then, Moses and Elijah.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Why don’t you first explain to me in what
sense was Jesus a saviour? Because what I have from Isaiah 43:11 is the following: “It is I, I the Lord; there is no Saviour but me.” Was the Almighty lying? I didn’t think so. And when Jesus was asked about the first of the commandments in Mark 12:29, he answered and said that “The Lord our God is One and the only Lord.” Did Jesus lie? I didn’t think so. Therefore, get a grip at yourself and remove these faithful patches from your eyes. Because where faith begins, knowledge ends; and for lack of knowledge people perish. (Hosea 4:6)

Ben:

And- BTW
Just because YOU don’t believe that Our Lord, Jesus Christ is the Saviour doesn’t mean we don’t believe it.
And, irregardless of your own beliefs, the Gospels were written for believers. So if the writers of the Gospel were writing for believers, wouldn’t it make sense for them to designate the wife of who they believe to be the saviour with some sort of signifier? “Mary, wife of Jesus” sounds a whole lot more important than “Mary of Magadala” or “Mary Magdalen”.

So… it’s rather interesting that she isn’t called that. Huh… I wonder why?

Maybe because she WASN’T the wife of Our Lord, Jesus Christ.

 

[planten]

And- BTW
Just because YOU don’t believe that Our Lord, Jesus Christ is the Saviour doesn’t mean we don’t believe it.
And, irregardless of your own beliefs, the Gospels were written for believers. So if the writers of the Gospel were writing for believers, wouldn’t it make sense for them to designate the wife of who they believe to be the saviour with some sort of signifier? “Mary, wife of Jesus” sounds a whole lot more important than “Mary of Magadala” or “Mary Magdalen”.

So… it’s rather interesting that she isn’t called that. Huh… I wonder why?

Maybe because she WASN’T the wife of Our Lord, Jesus Christ.

Ben Masada has proved that Jesus was Rabbi and as a Rabbi he must be married. I am surprised at the good knowledge and honesty of Ben. The women did not have much role to play in the spiritual matters. So they were seldom entioned.
That matter of the marriage and turning water into wine was a also a riddle which has been nicely solved. It was the marriage of Jesus himself. it was his responsibility to provide wine for his own marriage. His mother Mary was also worried about the absence of the wine..

Originally Posted by Ben Masada
Why don’t you first explain to me in what
sense was Jesus a saviour? Because what I have from Isaiah 43:11 is the following: “It is I, I the Lord; there is no Saviour but me.” Was the Almighty lying? I didn’t think so. And when Jesus was asked about the first of the commandments in Mark 12:29, he answered and said that “The Lord our God is One and the only Lord.” Did Jesus lie? I didn’t think so. Therefore, get a grip at yourself and remove these faithful patches from your eyes. Because where faith begins, knowledge ends; and for lack of knowledge people perish. (Hosea 4:6)

Ben:

**The Words in Isaiah are very clear. There is no mention of Jesus there. Lord God did not say anything about Jesus.

The words of Jesus in Mark 12:29 are more interesting. Jesus does not say " I am the Lord God of all". He rather says “The Lord our God is One and the only Lord”. That was the correct time for Jesus to say that there was no God but he himself.

He says that the Lord, our God… is One… It means the Lord, Our God, means the Lord God of all including Jesus is One Lord God of all.

The matter seems to be very clear. Jesus did not tell any lie and did not claim any divinity. He told the truth.**

 

[planten]

**Further more, it is well known that Jesus had a God to whom he used to pray, to whom he used to call for help. If he himslef was god, he would never do that.

For reference, please see the prayer of Jesus in the garden before his arrest. Also note the words of Jesus while he was on the cross, “Ailly, Ailly, …” Meaning “O my Lord, O my Lord…”

He had a Lord and was not himself any Lord**.