The Wedding of Jesus

[swariffin]

So your question is why does God tell Abraham to sacrifice Isaac? The traditional answers are to test Abraham’s faith. Perhaps to test Isaac’s faith as well? To strengthen and restate the covenant. A covenant was traditionally made over a sacrifice.

According to the Muslim, Abraham sacrifice Ishmael, not Isaac.

 

[swariffin]

**Please be reminded that God created man and gave mankind the free will. It did not mean that man will be perfect and will not make mistakes.

**

There is an improvement on your part now, my dear brother. You now believe that human is created with free will. Typically other muslim does not believe in free will.

 

[swariffin]

Ben, do you believe that Jesus was a rabbi?

 

[paarsurrey]

Ben, do you believe that Jesus was a rabbi?

Hi

I think our friend Ben Masada has confirmed it in so many words and so many times that Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi.

Is it not sufficienst that he, a Jew, believes Jesus was a good man?

Why do the Catholics want to impose their own faith on him by ridiculing him; if I am correct? Please convince him, love him, and present your rational and logical arguments befor him.

Please win him over to your side; if you so like. He believes in historical existence of Jesus. Is it not sufficient for a Jew? Why insist on him to become mythical?

Make him a Catholic in a nice way. That is the only way that comes into my mind, in my opinion.

I love Jesus , Mary and Second Coming 1835-1908

Thanks

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben, do you believe that Jesus was a rabbi?

Yes, I do. And I bet you would not get such a positive reply from another Jew.

Ben:

 

[swariffin]

Yes, I do. And I bet you would not get such a positive reply from another Jew.

Ben:

Don’t you believe in his teaching?

 

[swariffin]

Hi

I think our friend Ben Masada has confirmed it in so many words and so many times that Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi.

Is it not sufficienst that he, a Jew, believes Jesus was a good man?

Why do the Catholics want to impose their own faith on him by ridiculing him; if I am correct? Please convince him, love him, and present your rational and logical arguments befor him.

Please win him over to your side; if you so like. He believes in historical existence of Jesus. Is it not sufficient for a Jew? Why insist on him to become mythical?

Make him a Catholic in a nice way. That is the only way that comes into my mind, in my opinion.

I love Jesus , Mary and Second Coming 1835-1908

Thanks

I come to this forum for discussion Paar. I am not in a Jihad mode like you have declared. Winning and losing is not in my mind. What I am looking for is a real logical thinking, not a self-claim logic. If I can’t answer your question I would say so, but sure I will not run away. If you can’t answer my question, then you can say so, and sure I will not rejoice. Even if I may convert you, what gain would I get? Winning the debate in this forum is not a pre-requisite to enter the Kingdom of God, anyway.

But, I must admit that Ben is a tough debater. His logic is more general (though in the opposite side of mine) not one-sided like yours.
.

 

[Ben_Masada]

The word Christ, Christos, the **Greek **equivalent of the Hebrew Messias, means “anointed.”

Χριστός (Khristós) meaning “the anointed”

Khristós ( Χριστός ) was used to translate the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Mašíaḥ,) (Messiah), meaning “[one who is] anointed, typically with holy anointing oil”

Very good Jakasaki, I liked that. Now, would you please tell me who anointed Jesus as the Messiah or Chrst?

Ben:

 

[paarsurrey]

I come to this forum for discussion Paar. I am not in a Jihad mode like you have declared. Winning and losing is not in my mind. What I am looking for is a real logical thinking, not a self-claim logic. If I can’t answer your question I would say so, but sure I will not run away. If you can’t answer my question, then you can say so, and sure I will not rejoice. Even if I may convert you, what gain would I get? Winning the debate in this forum is not a pre-requisite to enter the Kingdom of God, anyway.

But, I must admit that Ben is a tough debater. His logic is more general (though in the opposite side of mine) not one-sided like yours.
.

Hi

I think Swariffin and Ben Masada are my elder brothers in humanity. I love them both.

I love Jesus, Mary and Second Coming 1835-1908

Thanks

 

[swariffin]

Very good Jakasaki, I liked that. Now, would you please tell me who anointed Jesus as the Messiah or Chrst?

Ben:

God Himself, who else?

 

[Ben_Masada]

Don’t you believe in his teaching?

Yes, but in 20 percent of it. The other 80 percent
are made out of interpolations either by the gospel writers or the Fathers of the Church when these selected the books which would take part in the Canon of the NT in 327 CE. There were many other books and gospels which were rejected because of their controversial character vis-a-vis the writings of Paul.

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

Okay ben, lets start here you said Liars are those who claim that Jesus was what he never claimed to be. Lets start here, who do you say Jesus claimed to be Ben?

An observant Jew who came with the mission to
fulfill and confirm the Law and the Prophets down to the dot of the letter. But don’t forget that in the same place that he declared that,
he also said that he came to make sure we all did the same. You can read about what I am saying in Matthew 5:17-19.

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben,

There doesn’t need to be an explicit reference to Jesus not being married in the NT Holy Scripture in order for us to believe that he was not married. We know from Holy Tradition and the life of the Church that Jesus was not naturally married to any woman, nor did he naturally generate any children.

Nevertheless, Isaiah declares that God reveals His glory through Israel. Where in the Scriptures that Jesus used to handle is written that God reveals Himself through the Church?

Jews can not understand this because they are still under the Mosaic Law and have rejected the grace offered by Christ, that is, the Law of Christ.

Who is not under the Law, you? We all are under the Law, whether you like it or not. Above the Law, only God is; and out of the Law only criminals. Let yourself be taken to Court and tell the Judge that you are not under the Law, and wait to see
if he will let you go. Even Jesus himself was under the Law, if you
read Matthew 5:17-19. The Law was given to us as a result of God’s grace. There is no grace apart from God’s Law.

Actually, as an Assyrian-Chaldean Catholic, my Particular Church’s Apostolic Succession started with St. Thomas the Apostle and his disciples Sts. Addai and Mari. Because St. Thomas was in full unity and communion with St. Peter, then we are in full communion with the successors of St. Peter, the Popes of Rome and the Latin Catholic Church (aka Roman Catholic Church).

I believe that Thomas the Apostle might have started the original Assyrian-Chaldean sect because Thomas was a Nazarene. But like all the other synagogues, this one was also taken over by Christianity. I believe that Thomas was in full unity with Peter but not with Paul. And Peter was never a Pope. The first Pope was Paul.

Ben:

God bless,

Rony

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by swariffin:
Don’t you believe in his teaching?

Yes, but in 20 percent of it. The other 80 percent
are made out of interpolations either by the gospel writers or the Fathers of the Church when these selected the books which would take part in the Canon of the NT in 327 CE. There were many other books and gospels which were rejected because of their controversial character vis-a-vis the writings of Paul.

Ben:

Hi

I agree with you. In my opinion,please

Thanks

 

[planten]

Nevertheless, Isaiah declares that God reveals His glory through Israel. Where in the Scriptures that Jesus used to handle is written that God reveals Himself through the Church?

True. Good question.

Who is not under the Law, you? We all are under the Law, whether you like it or not. Above the Law, only God is; and out of the Law only criminals. Let yourself be taken to Court and tell the Judge that you are not under the Law, and wait to see
if he will let you go.

Very true. If any one told the Judge that he/she was not under the law, he/she would be caught and punished.

Even Jesus himself was under the Law, if you
read Matthew 5:17-19. The Law was given to us as a result of God’s grace. There is no grace apart from God’s Law.

**Ben, you are right. Your words are powerful eye openers. I will have to agree with you as long as I see that you are telling the correct things.

We had all known that Jesus was a Jew, a practicing Jew. He was for the Jews not for christians. There was no christians. Jesus respected the law of Moses a.s. and followed it faithfully. He had said that he had come to fulfil the law of Moses. He did not say that he had come to abolish or abondon the law of Moses.

Who taught all these bad things to the christians?. I am sure it was Paul. He introduced the lawlessness. He introduced the enmity. He introduced the Trinity into the system. He abondoned the Sabath, and all. In fact Paul highjacked the the good faith of Jesus and took it on the wrong track by his own Philosophy.**

I believe that Thomas the Apostle might have started the original Assyrian-Chaldean sect because Thomas was a Nazarene. But like all the other synagogues, this one was also taken over by Christianity. I believe that Thomas was in full unity with Peter but not with Paul. And Peter was never a Pope. The first Pope was Paul.

Ben:

In the end I would ask Ben who was Ben Hur. I had seen a book by that title and I believe a film was also made titled “Ben Hur.” There was something about the Nazarennes in that book. or was it about the essennes?

God bless,

Rony

 

[ronyodish]

Hi

So, that makes Jesus not so perfect a man as were Adam and Moses; they used all body and soul in service of God Allah YHWH, and Jesus was not confident enough to use them all, in my opinion.

Do you say that Jesus did not spent his life naturally? Perhaps

I love Jesus, Mary and Second Coming 1835-1908

Thanks

Paarsurrey,

Peace be with you image of God!

Jesus is the Perfect Man, but not just a mere man, He is God and Man. His mission on Earth, sent by the Father, was the salvation of the human race. His mission was to marry and unite to Himself all of humanity, gathered up into the Church, that is why the Church is called the bride of Christ.

If Jesus was a mere man, and not also God, then he would probably and naturally marry a woman and have children with her. However, as the God-Man, He does not need to naturally marry one girl and have some children, because He is marrying all of the human race, if they are willing to accept His offer of marriage, by becoming members of the Church.

So, as to the question of whether Jesus spent His life naturally, yes he did, meaning He was Man in all things except sin, but being God and Man, He brought us more than just the mere natural state. He elevated marriage from a mere natural state to a higher supernatural state, so Jesus did not come to naturally marry one lady, but came to supernaturally marry all human beings.

So if you think that a man has to be married in order to be perfect, then Jesus is the most perfect of men, because His goal is to marry every single human person ever created. God wills all human persons to be united to Him, which is what human marriage tries to reflect, that is, the eternal supernatural marriage between God and Humanity.

Now, in Christianity, a man does not have to be naturally married in order to be perfect, because perfection in Christianity refers to the abundance of grace, purity of heart, and rejection of sin. If a man goes through his whole life unmarried, but strives with God’s grace for holiness, repenting of his sins, and dies free from serious deadly sins, and gets to heaven, that is a perfect man, a saint, a holy one.

For example, there are some men in Christianity, who are called monks, who choose to not be naturally married in order to embrace the eternal supernatural marriage of the the kingdom of God. They don’t reject human marriage, they simply choose not to make use of this natural good, in order to devote their lives to a higher supernatural good. Jesus makes mention of these men in the Gospel: “there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 19:12).

God bless,

Rony

 

[ronyodish]

Hi friend ronyodish!

May be you can help find the Gospel of Matthew in Syriac/Aramaic that was gifted in India to a Clergy at Rome.

I think you know the story.

I love Jesus, Mary and Second Coming 1835-1908

Thanks

My friend paarsurrey, rejoice in the Lord our God always!

The original autographs of the NT Bible, meaning, the original manuscripts written by the Apostles under Divine Inspiration, have all been unfortunately either destroyed or lost. So, the original Gospel scroll or manuscript that St. Matthew wrote in Aramaic is no longer with us, having either been destroyed or is lost.

However, there are copies of the NT Bible written in Aramaic/Syriac. It is known as the Peshitta Bible, and it is officially used by the Catholic Churches that use the Syriac script, such as my particular Chaldean Catholic Church. The Gospel of Matthew can be read online here: pes.scripturetext.com/matthew/1.htm

If you are looking for an English translation of this Peshitta Matthew, there are some online, but one example is here: aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/dr_george_lamsa_bible.htm

Now, there is a question in scholarship that refers to what is known as Greek Primacy versus Aramaic Primacy. Most scholars accept Greek Primacy, meaning, that all or most of the original NT manuscripts were originally written in Greek, and then later translated into other languages, including Syriac. On the other hand, there is a minority of scholars who accept Aramaic Primacy, by thinking that the original NT was written in Aramaic.

There are some who think that one should not pin the Greek view against the Aramaic view, and think that both were written at the same time by the Apostles, meaning, the Apostles wrote in Greek to the Greek-speaking followers of Jesus, and wrote in Aramaic to the Aramaic-speaking followers of Jesus.

The late Patriarch of the Assyrian Church of the East, which is an Aramaic/Syriac-speaking Church, accepts that the Peshitta Syriac text has been handed down from the hands of the Apostles themselves. This is what Mar Eshai Shimun said in 1957:

---

“With reference to…the originality of the Peshitta text, as the Patriarch and Head of the Holy Apostolic and Catholic Church of the East, we wish to state, that the Church of the East received the scriptures from the hands of the blessed Apostles themselves in the Aramaic original, the language spoken by our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and that the Peshitta is the text of the Church of the East which has come down from the Biblical times without any change or revision.”​

So, irregardless of whichever language the NT was originally written in, if you compare the Greek text with the Syriac text, there are very minor differences, differences that do not alter the substance of the message of Jesus.

Also, as Catholics, we have Holy Tradition, and the interpretive guidance of the Church guided by the Holy Spirit, to help us know for certain the message of Jesus in addition to what we read in the NT Bible.

God bless,

Rony

 

[Ben_Masada]

In the end I would ask Ben who was Ben Hur. I had seen a book by that title and I believe a film was also made titled “Ben Hur.” There was something about the Nazarennes in that book. or was it about the essennes?

About this Ben Hur, I saw the movie but I didn’t read the book. This Ben Hur is only a fabrication for movie purpose. I don’t think there is anything to do with the real Hur who,
along with Joshua would hold Moses arms up until the Israelites beat the Amalekites. (Exo. 17:8-16) I think that about the Nazarene, it was a reference to Jesus himself.

Ben:

 

[rinnie]

Still waiting for your response Ben.

thread 415 still waiting Ben. Still haven’t heard from you.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Still waiting for your response Ben.

My response to your waiting is in my newest thread about “My Views About Jesus.” Enjoy it.

Ben: