The Wedding of Jesus

[allhers]

From Acts 24:14, I came to understand that Paul was lying when he decided to call also Christianity the new way. Why? Because he declares that “He believed all that’s written in the Law and the Prophets.” That’s a lie because Kashrut is written in the Law, and he abolished Kashrut. (I Cor. 10:25,26) The Sabbath is written in the Law and he considered the Sabbath as shadows of things to come, and said that one is free to choose any day to keep it holy or no day at all. (Col. 2:16,17; Rom. 14:5) Therefore, contradictions in the NT.

Besides, he would teach the Jews to abandon Moses, to give up the circumcision of their children and to renounce the Jewish customs. Read Acts 21:21. Then, last but not least, he contradicted Jesus himself when this said he had not come to abolish the Law. (Mat. 5:17) And Paul declares that’s not true. That he did come to abolish the Law in his flesh on the cross. Therefore, the man has lost all credibility to be trusted in anything he said. To contradict is to go against or be anti. If you believe Jesus was Christ, it’s not too hard to figure what was Paul.

Ben:

I did read it and told you that Paul didn’t do what you said he did, several posts back.

Also, fulfilling the law doesn’t mean enforcing it as you probably think it does.

Another thing is this “until heaven and earth pass away”. That doesn’t mean the end of the world but an end of the age, as prophesied by Isaiah 65:17 66:22

What Paul is telling them is that in Christ alone will they have access to God.

 

[allhers]

What you don’t seem to understand is that the earth and everything that is in it belong to the Lord, our God. Have a good day/night.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Gabriel of 12;4881777:

To begin with, let me remind you that this of the forum is a non-Catholic section. If you as a Catholic can’t handle
the truth, I think you must be the one who should not continue here. Then, to burn one alive because he attacks the Church with arguments is no reason for such a cruelty.

Now, about who is here to correct misgivings, let me ask you a question. Do you believe Jesus was Jewish? I am sure you do. Therefore, if I am interpreting Jesus according to being Jewish, I think the misgivings are yours and not mine.

Ben:

Gabriel of 12:

Fair enough, I will remind you of your words;

Let us be clear; Catholics believe Jesus is God incarnate period. This is the first misunderstanding you have about Jesus. The Reason Jesus came through the lineage of King David was to fulfill The Fathers word and promise. Jesus did all these things and more.

To Limit Jesus work to a Jewish custom is another misunderstanding you have about the coming Messiah in the person of Jesus, who came to do the will of the Father in heaven by fulfilling the Testaters covenant, which required a death of the Testater God himself will offer the sacrifice as he promised Abraham, This Jesus did as God incarnate.

If you want to share your Jewish customs here, that is fine, and I will show you through the Law and the prophets how Jesus fulfilled every letter of the law and the prophets. This my friend is the difference between the natural law which is carnal and the Spirit of the Law which is eternal.

Peace be with you

 

[Kaninchen]

If you want to share your Jewish customs here, that is fine, and I will show you through the Law and the prophets how Jesus fulfilled every letter of the law and the prophets. This my friend is the difference between the natural law which is carnal and the Spirit of the Law which is eternal.

The Jewish point of view is that, of course, Jesus would have fulfilled all sorts of things because that’s what the NT was constructed to achieve - go through the Tanakh pick out all sorts of potential predictors (whether apposite or not) and write an account of Jesus’ life so that it ‘fit’ - that’s why Jesus ‘achieved’ so many Messianic prophesies that could be arrived at by text manipulation but none of the ‘real world’ ones that one might notice.

So, we’re left with a situation where Christians believe the NT and Jews don’t and we can go around and around and around the subject but we’re never going to agree - Christians will continue to start with Jesus and look at the Tanakh ‘backwards’ through the lens of ‘Jesus’ and Jews will continue to read the Tanakh ‘forwards’.

I wonder if the point is whether we can do so without continuously annoying one another?

 

[Ben_Masada]

I did read it and told you that Paul didn’t do what you said he did, several posts back.

Also, fulfilling the law doesn’t mean enforcing it as you probably think it does.

Nice try! At least you are trying something. Indeed Jesus declared that he came to fulfill. But if you keep reading, in Matthew 5:19 he says that everyone of us, I mean Jews, is under the same obligation to observe the Law as he did. That was his mission: To restore Torah observance in all Israel. It was a revival of Judaism. Therefore, fulfilling and enforcing was one
and the same in the words of Jesus.

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben Masada;4881795:

Gabriel of 12:

Fair enough, I will remind you of your words;

Let us be clear; Catholics believe Jesus is God incarnate period. This is the first misunderstanding you have about Jesus. The Reason Jesus came through the lineage of King David was to fulfill The Fathers word and promise. Jesus did all these things and more

That’s where you get in shock with me. Jesus was an Orthodox practicing Jew, and you are interfering with his Jewishness by claiming that he was God incarnate when such an idea is impossible within the context of Jewishness. There is no such a thing as Greek Mythology in Judaism, the Faith of Jesus…

To Limit Jesus work to a Jewish custom is another misunderstanding you have about the coming Messiah in the person of Jesus, who came to do the will of the Father in heaven by fulfilling the Testaters covenant, which required a death of the Testater God himself will offer the sacrifice as he promised Abraham, This Jesus did as God incarnate.

Pauline rhetoric which has nothing to do with being Jewish.

If you want to share your Jewish customs here, that is fine, and I will show you through the Law and the prophets how Jesus fulfilled every letter of the law and the prophets. This my friend is the difference between the natural law which is carnal and the Spirit of the Law which is eternal.

You are welcome to, but you don’t have to struggle too much because I know that Jesus fulfilled the Law. That’s in Matthew 5:17. But don’t forget that he left it rather clear
that we Jews are all under the same obligation to do exactly the same under the penalty of losing the Kingdom of God. It means that to fulfill does not mean to abolish, as your champion Paul claimed in Ephesians 2:15.

Peace be with you. And with you too.

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

Deleted for being a duplicate post.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Deleted for being a duplicate post.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Deleted for being a duplicate post.

 

[planten]

**Originally Posted by allhers
I did read it and told you that Paul didn’t do what you said he did, several posts back.

Quote:
Also, fulfilling the law doesn’t mean enforcing it as you probably think it does. **

Fulfilling does not mean disregarding, abondoning the law too. It has something to do with uphplding the law in a better shape. I believe it is a sin to say that the law of Moses is no more needed and that law is a curse. That is the worse taht can be said about Moses and his laws given by God who was perhaps Jesus.

Another thing is this “until heaven and earth pass aeway”. That doesn’t mean the end of the world but an end of the age, as prophesied by Isaiah 65:17 66:22

Let us be fair and live in the real world. We should not take the meanings far afield. It is clear that Jesus is saying that the Jewish law will never be abolished.

What Paul is telling them is that in Christ alone will they have access to God.

** That was no use. Anybody would say that to make his headway into a system**.

 

[rinnie]

Gabriel of 12;4881804:

Ben Masada;4881795:

Gabriel of 12:

Fair enough, I will remind you of your words;

That’s where you get in shock with me. Jesus was an Orthodox practicing Jew, and you are interfering with his Jewishness by claiming that he was God incarnate when such an idea is impossible within the context of Jewishness. There is no such a thing as Greek Mythology in Judaism, the Faith of Jesus.

.

Pauline rhetoric which has nothing to do with being Jewish.

You are welcome to, but you don’t have to struggle too much because I know that Jesus fulfilled the Law. That’s in Matthew 5:17. But don’t forget that he left it rather clear
that we Jews are all under the same obligation to do exactly the same under the penalty of losing the Kingdom of God. It means that to fulfill does not mean to abolish, as your champion Paul claimed in Ephesians 2:15.

Peace be with you. And with you too.

Ben:

Again Ben, I don’t know why I or anyone bother’s sometimes but here it goes. Again Ben. Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law he came to fullfill it. Jesus did not abolish the law he DID FULLFILL it. But now we come to Paul. After Jesus fullfilled the law Ben, its over. He fullfilled the OT. That’s it he took the OT as far as it could go. Now Jesus started the NT. The new law, the Law that we are to follow today. He never took away the ten commandments. But yes he did indeed explain and fullfill, and now we have the NT. Just like the ot was to live by then, now we have the NT. What do you feel that Jesus did not finish it the OT Ben. You cannot find anything because its finished. Do you feel that he missed something or What? What is it in the OT that you feel need to be done? Can you not see the OT is over, there is a NT now. Just because Jesus fullfilled the OT does not mean that we do not believe the law, its just Jesus gave us a new law now.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Ben:
That’s where you get in shock with me. Jesus was an Orthodox practicing Jew, and you are interfering with his Jewishness by claiming that he was God incarnate when such an idea is impossible within the context of Jewishness. There is no such a thing as Greek Mythology in Judaism, the Faith of Jesus…

Gabriel of 12:
Late Jewish anti christian rhetoric. Your denial of God’s revelation only confirms the Hebrew Prophets who spoke well of you, that would deny him, "For “He came to what was his own, but his own people did not accept him”. I have already mentioned the Prophet who spoke well of your blinded eyes and lack of hearing. Your statements themselves bring these prophets to life who condemn you that is why you killed the prophets of God.

Ben:
Pauline rhetoric which has nothing to do with being Jewish.

Gabriel of 12:

I will give you this much at least you believe Paul existed. What puzzles me, is that Paul who was a Zealot Learned Jew from the first century, and God revealed himself to Paul, yet the hate towards Paul continues today in you, as did they who saught to kill him for exposing the “Truth” to the Jews, that is why many of the Jews converted to Christianity and followed the Nazorean Jesus in “The Way” to God through Jesus.

Ben:
You are welcome to, but you don’t have to struggle too much because I know that Jesus fulfilled the Law. That’s in Matthew 5:17. But don’t forget that he left it rather clear
that we Jews are all under the same obligation to do exactly the same under the penalty of losing the Kingdom of God. It means that to fulfill does not mean to abolish, as your champion Paul claimed in Ephesians 2:15.

Gabriel of 12:

Yes I know, so long as you cling to the flesh of the natural law and deny the eternal salvation that God has revealed and fulfilled, you will remain in your blindness. Seek the Spirit of God,there is where God wants to live in your heart, mind and strength, not in the outer flesh.

Peace

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

The Jewish point of view is that, of course, Jesus would have fulfilled all sorts of things because that’s what the NT was constructed to achieve - go through the Tanakh pick out all sorts of potential predictors (whether apposite or not) and write an account of Jesus’ life so that it ‘fit’ - that’s why Jesus ‘achieved’ so many Messianic prophesies that could be arrived at by text manipulation but none of the ‘real world’ ones that one might notice.

So, we’re left with a situation where Christians believe the NT and Jews don’t and we can go around and around and around the subject but we’re never going to agree - Christians will continue to start with Jesus and look at the Tanakh ‘backwards’ through the lens of ‘Jesus’ and Jews will continue to read the Tanakh ‘forwards’.

I wonder if the point is whether we can do so without continuously annoying one another?

Gabriel of 12;

When Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets; God meant every Word that God uttered in his Law and to his Prophets Jesus fulfilled the Will of “Abba” Father in Heaven. Jesus did not come to fulfill the other 600+ something laws invented by Jews and other Jewish writings, are you kidding me? God’s revelation began and ended with his Word since the beginning, and the Word of God became flesh. If you or Jews have added anything other to these revelations. Moses did well to give you a bill of divorce, because it was not God who allowed it, but your law giver Moses. Praise be Jesus Christ, Jesus rescued Marriage to a Sacrament and raised Woman to a first class citizen in the kingdom of God.

P.S Iam not a woman either;

Peace be with you

 

[Kaninchen]

Gabriel of 12;

When Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets; God meant every Word that God uttered in his Law and to his Prophets Jesus fulfilled the Will of “Abba” Father in Heaven. Jesus did not come to fulfill the other 600+ something laws invented by Jews and other Jewish writings, are you kidding me? God’s revelation began and ended with his Word since the beginning, and the Word of God became flesh. If you or Jews have added anything other to these revelations. Moses did well to give you a bill of divorce, because it was not God who allowed it, but your law giver Moses. Praise be Jesus Christ, Jesus rescued Marriage to a Sacrament and raised Woman to a first class citizen in the kingdom of God.

P.S Iam not a woman either;

Peace be with you

Hey, I was just saying that just because ‘Micah’ might have said ‘And I will stub my toe’ and Matthew might have said ‘And Jesus stubbed his toe’ doesn’t exactly mean much.

As for the rest, as I often say here: ‘It’s all Harry Potter to me’.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Gabriel of 12:
Late Jewish anti christian rhetoric. Your denial of God’s revelation only confirms the Hebrew Prophets who spoke well of you, that would deny him, "For “He came to what was his own, but his own people did not accept him”. I have already mentioned the Prophet who spoke well of your blinded eyes and lack of hearing. Your statements themselves bring these prophets to life who condemn you that is why you killed the prophets of God.

Prove that the Prophets spoke of Jesus. Prove that the Jews killed the Prophets. All Pauline rhetoric and false accusations.

Gabriel of 12:

I will give you this much at least you believe Paul existed. What puzzles me, is that Paul who was a Zealot Learned Jew from the first century, and God revealed himself to Paul, yet the hate towards Paul continues today in you, as did they who saught to kill him for exposing the “Truth” to the Jews, that is why many of the Jews converted to Christianity and followed the Nazorean Jesus in “The Way” to God through Jesus.

You err for not knowing even your own NT. How could Paul be a zealot learnt Jew if he used to teach the Jews to abandon Moses, to stop circumcising their children, and to renounce the Jewish customs? So much for a Zealot Jew. (Acts 21:21)

Paul was not threatened for exposing the truth but for preaching apostasy in Jerusalem. You can’t bring a strange gospel to the Jews and claim you are exposing the truth. The same thing Islam tried in the 7th Century and failed.

The test to prove the truth is in Isaiah 8:20. “To the Law and the Testimony; if they don’t speak according to this word, it’s because there is no light in them.” Paul’s gospel could hardly pass this test. He preached against the Law. (Ephe. 2:15)

Gabriel of 12:

Yes I know, so long as you cling to the flesh of the natural law and deny the eternal salvation that God has revealed and fulfilled, you will remain in your blindness. Seek the Spirit of God,there is where God wants to live in your heart, mind and strength, not in the outer flesh.

There you go again with Pauline rhetoric. God, the Almighty is Israel’s only Savior. (Isa. 43:11)

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben Masada;4881856:

Gabriel of 12;4881804:

Again Ben, I don’t know why I or anyone bother’s sometimes but here it goes. Again Ben. Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law he came to fullfill it. Jesus did not abolish the law he DID FULLFILL it. But now we come to Paul.

No, no, you don’t go to Paul that fast. You haven’t finished. A half truth is a complete lie. When you say that Jesus came to fulfill the Law, you have said half the truth. This is Matthew 5:17. But Matthew does not finish with verse 17. Read the next two verses, in order not to be charged with saying a complete lie.

In verse 19 Jesus says that every single Jew besides himself is under the same obligation to do exactly as he did: To fulfill or observe every thing commandment of the Law. It means, he was right when he said that he had not come to abolish. Now, you can go to Paul to see how he contradicts Jesus himself as if Jesus was lying.

After Jesus fullfilled the law Ben, its over. He fullfilled the OT. That’s it he took the OT as far as it could go. Now Jesus started the NT. The new law, the Law that we are to follow today. He never took away the ten commandments. But yes he did indeed explain and fullfill, and now we have the NT. Just like the ot was to live by then, now we have the NT. What do you feel that Jesus did not finish it the OT Ben. You cannot find anything because its finished. Do you feel that he missed something or What? What is it in the OT that you feel need to be done? Can you not see the OT is over, there is a NT now. Just because Jesus fullfilled the OT does not mean that we do not believe the law, its just Jesus gave us a new law now.

All this long paragraph above is completely against what Jesus said in Matthew 5:19. You have inherited what Paul said when he contradicted Jesus, by saying in other words:
Do not believe what he said in Matthew 5:17-19. He came to abolish. And I tell you, the laws were abolished in his flesh on the cross. (Ephe. 2:15) Check it out if it’s not thus.

Rinnie, to contradict someone is to stand against. The prefix is “anti.” If Jesus was Christ, as you believe he was, Paul could have been the Antichrist. Because what he says in Ephesians 2:15 is nothing but to stand against what Jesus declared in Matthew 5:17-19. I am sorry. That’s the work of blind faith. You can’t think. You even put a cover over the truth in the hope that I won’t find out what you are doing. I am sorry. I know you wish things didn’t have to be thus. But that’s reality.

Ben:

 

[rinnie]

rinnie;4883397:

Ben Masada;4881856:

Gabriel of 12;4881804:

No, no, you don’t go to Paul that fast. You haven’t finished. A half truth is a complete lie. When you say that Jesus came to fulfill the Law, you have said half the truth. This is Matthew 5:17. But Matthew does not finish with verse 17. Read the next two verses, in order not to be charged with saying a complete lie.

In verse 19 Jesus says that every single Jew besides himself is under the same obligation to do exactly as he did: To fulfill or observe every thing commandment of the Law. It means, he was right when he said that he had not come to abolish. Now, you can go to Paul to see how he contradicts Jesus himself as if Jesus was lying.

All this long paragraph above is completely against what Jesus said in Matthew 5:19. You have inherited what Paul said when he contradicted Jesus, by saying in other words:
Do not believe what he said in Matthew 5:17-19. He came to abolish. And I tell you, the laws were abolished in his flesh on the cross. (Ephe. 2:15) Check it out if it’s not thus.

Rinnie, to contradict someone is to stand against. The prefix is “anti.” If Jesus was Christ, as you believe he was, Paul could have been the Antichrist. Because what he says in Ephesians 2:15 is nothing but to stand against what Jesus declared in Matthew 5:17-19. I am sorry. That’s the work of blind faith. You can’t think. You even put a cover over the truth in the hope that I won’t find out what you are doing. I am sorry. I know you wish things didn’t have to be thus. But that’s reality.

Ben:

Again you cannot accept the teaching;s of Christ and Paul so you try in your twisted mind to explain scripture that way twisted. Paul did not say that. Can you not see what Jesus was saying, and Paul was trying to tell you. The law was just words, Love one another. Words. But what did Jesus do, did he just say he loved us. No Ben, he died for us. He not only preached his love he showed his love, He died on the cross. That is what everyone is trying to show you.

But you refuse to accept . Jesus did not take away Love, he showed love. He took away death. Because of the old law when Adam and Eve sinned we got death. Jesus came back and died on the cross and took away death. you do not see. You refuse to see what is right in front of your eyes. Open your eyes Ben, let in the Light. With the light will come Jesus Christ. You will never find darkness with him. But you are in the dark, because you choose to be in the dark.

That is why you are so hung up on that scripture and try to make it what you want it to say. But you cannot. You have failed once again Ben. You have done all within your power to try to discredit Jesus and you have failed once again Ben. You cannot take away faith, love, and truth, no matter how you try. It does not work. Look at the title of this thread Ben. Another lie you have been shot down with. How many more times will you try, Who knows, who cares. But I can promise you one thing, You will lose. Again, as usual. Lies always lose.

 

[rinnie]

You err for not knowing your own NT. Acts 9 is about Paul’s famous change of mind. And I tell you which people he was on his way to Damascus to arrest. They were those in the synagogues living according to the New Way. Who could they be,
Christians? Think again because Christians started about 5 years
later with him in Antioch. (Acts 11:26)

Those in the synagogues of Damascus could not be regular Jews because he would not get letters from Jerusalem to persecute Jews. They were the Nazarenes, followers of the New Way, a name given to the Nazarenes. (Acts 9:2) Read more carefully.

Do you want another proof of what I am saying? When he decided to come up to Jerusalem to join the Sect of the Nazarnes, the Nazarenes rejected him, afraid for his history of persecutions in Damascus. As you can see, those who were living according to the New Way were not Christians but Nazarenes.

Ben:

Now here Ben, I did get a chuckle. What do we have here the regular Jews, and then the err-regular Jews.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben Masada;4885781:

rinnie;4883397:

Ben Masada;4881856:

Again you cannot accept the teaching;s of Christ and Paul so you try in your twisted mind to explain scripture that way twisted. Paul did not say that. Can you not see what Jesus was saying, and Paul was trying to tell you. The law was just words, Love one another. Words. But what did Jesus do, did he just say he loved us. No Ben, he died for us. He not only preached his love he showed his love, He died on the cross. That is what everyone is trying to show you.

But you refuse to accept . Jesus did not take away Love, he showed love. He took away death. Because of the old law when Adam and Eve sinned we got death. Jesus came back and died on the cross and took away death. you do not see. You refuse to see what is right in front of your eyes. Open your eyes Ben, let in the Light. With the light will come Jesus Christ. You will never find darkness with him. But you are in the dark, because you choose to be in the dark.

That is why you are so hung up on that scripture and try to make it what you want it to say. But you cannot. You have failed once again Ben. You have done all within your power to try to discredit Jesus and you have failed once again Ben. You cannot take away faith, love, and truth, no matter how you try. It does not work. Look at the title of this thread Ben. Another lie you have been shot down with. How many more times will you try, Who knows, who cares. But I can promise you one thing, You will lose. Again, as usual. Lies always lose.

You are all the time running away from the subject because you know that you are wrong and just can’t admit it before a man who shares with Jesus the same Faith, which is Judaism. Jesus said what he said and not what you would like he did.

There is no way out Rinnie. I wonder how you won’t get embarrassed when other people, even Catholics read our posts and see what you are doing. Go back and ponder on what is written in Matthew 5:17-19. I won’t let you off the hook that easy. I am sure you are intelligent enough to see that you are completely
our of logic. To admit that you believe what you say would be an insult to your intelligence.

Ben

 

[rinnie]

Ben what do you not understand. In Matthew 5:17 Jesus did not come to destroy the law, nor to consecrate it, it is untouchable. He came to teach it, and his way of acting gave it its definitive form. No detail of the law may be omitted UNLESS it has be brought to fullfillment. What do you not understand about this? Can you not see that until the old law was not fullfilled could he add to it. Why do you refuse to listen to the words (but the PERSON who keeps them and teaches them will be considered great in heaven. Jesus not only fullfilled the law he brought it to a higher standard. Why is that so hard for you to accept. Its like you are saying Jesus took away the ten commandments or something. The Jewish people had the law, yes they did, its like you right now ben, you have the bible, but you have no clue what it says. Sure you can read the words, but you do not understand what are meant by them.