Theoretical Question - Married American Priest

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Okay people… calm down. There are knuckleheads everywhere. Whether or not “PRO” understands fully that Eastern Catholics are Catholic is irrelivant. He is living with his head in the sand.

What he may mean, and feel free to correct me, is that Paul states that a man would be better not married since they are living in difficult times and that he is divided to his wife. In essence, my words, a married man has a lot on his plate already and that a celibate priest can devote more time to the Church and go to more dangerous places without having to worry about family time and needs. That’s all that reall means.

A priest is a holy man of God whether married or single [celibate]. However, we know that all Bishops are celibate for the reasons stated above. I frown on the more perfect comments, but I understand what he means. When we get to heaven we will not have marrital relations and that’s all so the man on earth reflects that of which he hopes to become in heaven. Thus he is a sign to us all as such a Saint.
 
vocatio said:
Okay people… calm down. There are knuckleheads everywhere. Whether or not “PRO” understands fully that Eastern Catholics are Catholic is irrelivant. He is living with his head in the sand.

What he may mean, and feel free to correct me, is that Paul states that a man would be better not married since they are living in difficult times and that he is divided to his wife. In essence, my words, a married man has a lot on his plate already and that a celibate priest can devote more time to the Church and go to more dangerous places without having to worry about family time and needs. That’s all that reall means.

A priest is a holy man of God whether married or single [celibate]. However, we know that all Bishops are celibate for the reasons stated above. I frown on the more perfect comments, but I understand what he means. When we get to heaven we will not have marrital relations and that’s all so the man on earth reflects that of which he hopes to become in heaven. Thus he is a sign to us all as such a Saint.
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Well with out guns out you essencially made a summary of what I am trying to say.

Though I still sustain that it is more perfect, so eventually (eventually could be centuries) it will be abolished.
That is all. I have nothing against the Eastern Particular Churches, in fact when I knew of the existence as a little kid I felt joy seeing the richness of the Church. I still even go to many melkite rite masses. Trust me it isn’t a war against the East.
If the subject ever comes out I’ll comment on what the West is severly lacking in the secular priests.
 
vocatio said:
…Whether or not “PRO” understands fully that Eastern Catholics are Catholic is irrelivant…
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I disagree. It’s entirely relevant. From where I stand, Pro Domina’s entire argument seems to be framed within the mindset that the Latin (Roman) Catholic Church represents the definitive “yardstick” by which Catholicism shall be measured. Unless he (or she) is willing to accept the fact that the traditions, praxes and theological patrimony of the Eastern Catholic Churches are just as valid an expression of Catholicism as those of the (far, FAR larger, I recognize) Church of the West, he (or she) will never grasp the true nature of Catholicism and will, more than likely, continue to spew this distorted picture of the nature of our Church as “truth” – not a healthy situation for all Catholics, nor for those who wish to understand Catholicism.
 
Again I restate that I have NOTHING AGAINST SOMETHING THAT IS ACTUALLY INSPIRED BY GOD!!!

I do against errors that come and go but with much damage in the history of the Church. You do realize that there was a pretty big schism in the Church and that it did not happen overnight.

It was slowly attacking in the tendencies and then in the ideas and it finally manifested it self violently.

The same goes for those who speak fouly of Vat. II .
It did not start there, it started a while before that and in there it simply achieved massive force.

I’ve seen it with my own eyes…
It the Eastern rite churches there lurks those who undermine their relation with the Roman Pontiff. And if you who are faithful don’t fight agaisnt that the Pope is going to be surround on all sides, West and East, by people who are just about to smack the Pope in the face.

I would go and fight and die for the martyrs of the East that die everyday if the Church so authorized. Don’t think I look at you as lesser Catholics. In fact I find the Eastern Catholics are more rugged in their faith than us burgoise Westerners because we don’t put our lives on the line for being so.
 
a_pilgrim said:
I disagree. It’s entirely relevant. From where I stand, Pro Domina’s entire argument seems to be framed within the mindset that the Latin (Roman) Catholic Church represents the definitive “yardstick” by which Catholicism shall be measured. Unless he (or she) is willing to accept the fact that the traditions, praxes and theological patrimony of the Eastern Catholic Churches are just as valid an expression of Catholicism as those of the (far, FAR larger, I recognize) Church of the West, he (or she) will never grasp the true nature of Catholicism and will, more than likely, continue to spew this distorted picture of the nature of our Church as “truth” – not a healthy situation for all Catholics, nor for those who wish to understand Catholicism.
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I have to disagree with your disagreement [we ought to do this a couple hundred times and then try to say it real fast].
  1. It’s off topic. MY OP
  2. Pro is a heretic if he continues to push his own agenda that does not comply with Church Teaching on this matter. Celibacy is a discipline. It is a beautiful discipline at that. We should hold onto it. His opinion is irrelivant and off topic…comprende?
  3. I said so…
  4. Just kidding on #3.
I started this not to lure in the idiots of the faith. If he posts again arguing this point I will have to …HANDCUFF EM AND BRING EM IN! dramatic background music…BOOK EM DANNO!

Take this elsewhere.
 
Pro_Domina said:
I would go and fight and die for the martyrs of the East that die everyday if the Church so authorized. Don’t think I look at you as lesser Catholics. In fact I find the Eastern Catholics are more rugged in their faith than us burgoise Westerners because we don’t put our lives on the line for being so.
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Careful young Skywalker. You’re mighty verbose for a yearling, young Paduan.

Are you a convert? No, really…are you? :confused: Or did you just start to learn Church teaching and all like some of us? **
 
Well from a another religion no.

And I resented that heretic thing.

I’ve only said some actual things discussed within the Church.

Anything I say I recant if it has the most minimal discrepancy with the teachings of the Church. You can’t be more radical than the Church. :bowdown:
 
So it isn’t Latin ranting is it?

There are some valid arguements that need to be analyzed without taking it as an offense.
 
Pro_Domina said:
So it isn’t Latin ranting is it?

There are some valid arguements that need to be analyzed without taking it as an offense.
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Perhaps it is, perhaps not; western orders are technically alien to the Byzantine Rite, and his order is western, even if he is not.

Further, the Ukrainian church has many who are so latinized that they seek to return to the latinized version of the DL of St John, complete with roman chasubles & miters instead of phelonian saccos and crown. (FSSJ, IIRC.)

So just because one is Ukrainian (or even Ruthenian), one may still be very “western” in thought and praxis.

In fact, the article you linked to is critical of the EC phenomenon… not something I find comforting from a Catholic priest. And he’s right… the variety of attitudes is astonishing. Then again, my parish seems to be fairly vostochnik… the local Orthodox are often surprised when they hear the pope commemorated. On the other hand, it also was a parish that PUT IN an Iconostas during the reign of Bishop Elko…
 
Aramis,

To be clear… Dr. Alex Roman is not a priest. He is a lay member of the UGCC in Canada. He is also, as Hesychios pointed out, a Benedictine Oblate.

Oblates are third order lay individuals, single or married, who are affiliated by formal, yearly promise to a particular Benedictine monastic community with the intent being to live in the secular world, as much as their station in life allows, within the framework set forth in the Rule of St. Benedict, just as their monastic counterparts do within the monastary. If I am not mistaken, I believe Dr. Roman to be affiliated with St. Meinrad Archabbey in Indiana.

Although indeed rare, I do know of other Eastern Catholic individuals who are now, or have been in the past, Benedictine oblates (because oblates make an annual promise rather than a vow, they are free to forego their oblation at any time without stain of sin, should their station in life change). Also, for what it’s worth, my own parish priest for the first 30 or so years of my life was a Byzantine Catholic Benedictine hieromonk.

…guess I’m kinda fond of the Benedictines… 🙂
 
Further, the Ukrainian church has many who are so latinized that they seek to return to the latinized version of the DL of St John, complete with roman chasubles & miters instead of phelonian saccos and crown. (FSSJ, IIRC.)
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To clarify the “FSSJ” is NOT part of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church and is allied with the Society of St. Pius X. Fr. Kovpak was expelled from the UGCC specifically for his adherence to the latinizations mentioned as well as refusal of episcopal authority. His former bishop +Ihor faithfully wears the klobuk and is very Eastern, and for any priest to publically criticise his bishop (often for not following those latinizations) and degrade the hierarchy as Fr. Kovpak did is deserving of censure. Bringing up a hybridization like that is not at all pertinent to the question of the thread.
FDRLB
 
Me Four…I attended to a Benedictine Seminary for my first year of college to become a priest. Awesome experience.
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Me five - I teach a course on Eastern Christianity at Benedictine College every other year in their junior/senior theology curriculum, and I try to offer a couple of services every semester in the Ukrainian Catholic tradition.
FDRLB
 
Although indeed rare, I do know of other Eastern Catholic individuals who are now, or have been in the past, Benedictine oblates (because oblates make an annual promise rather than a vow, they are free to forego their oblation at any time without stain of sin, should their station in life change). Also, for what it’s worth, my own parish priest for the first 30 or so years of my life was a Byzantine Catholic Benedictine hieromonk.

**There is a movement, principally in the Antiocian Orthodox churcn in both their Western and Byzantine parishes to have Benedictine Oblates.

Decades ago a Russian Orthodox emigre bishop stood up in the famous Anglican Nashdom abbey to make an Orthodox layman a Benedictine Oblate.**
 
Pro_Domina said:
Separate but equal?
Geez it has been a couple of years since they abolished segregation.

But seriously, that separate but equal thing is just the spirit of the the EOs. They want to be buddies but everyone is their own king and no one is superior to the other. That is egalitarianism.

So I shall continue to defend the utter superiority of Rome above EVERYBODY and EVERYTHING and that married priests are a thing the Church allowed to prevent divisions but in the future it will be abolished; the Church always progresses to perfection so an imperfect practice cannot remain.
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I haven’t read all the posts in this thread, but I see what everyone is saying about your arrogant and condescending tone.

The celibacy of the priesthood is emphasized in the West chiefly because of the corruption that was taking place. In the West, there were “bastard” offspring of priests, wanton licentiousness among the clergy, and property headaches (not to mention demands for child support).

The Catholic Church is not “Roman”. There are 23 Rites in communion with the Bishop of Rome,and only one of them is Latin. This attitude:

“the utter superiority of Rome above EVERYBODY and EVERYTHING”

Is completely antithetical to what Christ taught about leadership. He rebuked the disciples for thinking this way. It is an attitude that also hinders unity, since the primacy of Rome is in service to the church, not supremacy over everybody and everything.

It is my prayer that you, and all persons like yourself that espouse this unchristlike attitude will be healed.
 
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