Theory causing nagging doubt regarding birth of Christianity

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mijoy2
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Mijoy2

Guest
Preface - I attend Mass every Sunday and Day of Obligation along with 1-2 times during the week; attempt to make a good confession at least a few times a year; have attended some bible studies. Most of my spare time reading/researching is regarding Catholic/spiritual matters. I will go on with my faith, I do not intend to leave the faith because of the premise (or thought-process) of what troubles me. I am composing this post to see if any others share (or have had in the past and got past it somehow) this constant troubling thought-process.

However, I struggle with belief. Belief in the Christian narrative and all that goes with it. I battle this day in and day out.

Here is my premise or theory.

I do not necessarily struggle with the thought that the Christian faith is a fairy tale, or a diabolic scheme or anything of any ill-intent. In fact I think much the opposite. I think the Christian faith is beautiful; I feel it’s teachings which seem to contradict world views on matters such as chastity, forgiveness, humility etc are exactly what gives me hope and keeps me hanging in there.

What haunts me is this thought that, over time, and perhaps partially motivated by the fact that humans as the only animal species recognizes that man is mortal and will die, fueled by mans’ intelligence and imagination and with the ingredient of time (thousands of years from Genesis to Revelation) inadvertently crafted the Story of Redemption.

How? Again, time could have played a key role. Stories get told, one to another to another and inadvertently get fine tuned to tell a story. The truth gets whittled, like a log from a tree, into a beautiful sculpture that fits the imagination of the one doing the work. For this reason Messianic Prophesies do not necessarily help my faith. These prophesies could be part of the whittling process, the fine tuning, where the narrative ends up fitting the desired outcome.

I think we have all done it. Told fish stories, where the fish gets a tad bit bigger and the fight gets a tad bit more dramatic with every passing telling of the story. No ill will intended, just a desire to believe makes the story ever so slightly different with each telling, some things get cut while other things get embellished.

How does one best self-refute this nagging, haunting idea?
 
Last edited:
Christianity is one of the best documented belief system from the “outside” of the religion itself.

In other words, most religions are transmitted solely by the writings of the first proponent of them. See Budism, Induism, Confucianism, and many others are examples of this.
Christianity has been documented by pagans who did not give 2 hoots about and even mocked the belief this new religion brought.
The blood of the Martyrs also speaks volumes about the veracity of their beliefs. No one goes willingly to his/her death (Horrible one as well) for a lie.
Your antidote my friend is to study the faith arm yourself with the knowledge that will be your ground so that you have a firm base for your beliefs.
Peace.
 
I would add that, as far as I know, no other religion claims that God himself entered human history.
 
Thousands of saints, many of whom died very happy deaths and then interceded for miracles on earth, can’t be wrong.

If I ever feel a twinge of doubt, I just think of Archbishop Sheen talking about the love story in the little white host and my doubt vanishes. Or Padre Pio or St. Francis Assisi or so many others.
 
How Jesus Became God by Bart Ehrman is basically the theory you’re describing. Full disclosure I’m ex-Catholic but would recommend it from a well documented historical standpoint. Would also recommend not shying away from the best arguments on all sides of this question. After all the truth should rise above any particular argument, right?
 
If I think of any good advice I’ll drop back in, but I’ve stopped here just to say that I enjoy your writing style Mijoy2.
 
Just being perfectly honest, I have and always have had a certain hesitancy about acknowledging a man as God, and about the concept of the Trinity. Not even a doubt, just a hesitancy. It’s not voluntary.

I have absolutely no hesitancy about the God of the Old Testament (YHWH), nor about his revelation to the Israelites, just about Christianity. In many ways, I would make perfect sense as a Jew.

Yet I believe, choose to believe, will myself to believe. And so it goes. Traditional, orthodox Catholic of 43 years now. That’s not changing.
 
A crisis of faith! This can and does happen to each of us. The source can be internal, external or both. Yet, our faith is not merely intellectual; not merely spiritual. It is as profound and infinite in origin and possibility as the infinite God on Whom we believe.

It is also first and foremost a relationship based on mutual love. Limited, imperfect love in return for perfect, infinite and unconditional love from God. It is both easy and natural to believe that we are getting the far better end of the deal

That relationship must be nourished, it must be fed, or it withers and dies. Basics: When we love someone, we desire to spend time with them, correct? The more time, the better.

How to spend more time with the Lord?

Adoration of the Most Blessed Sacrament. Christ present with us. I recall Peter’s words here from John 6: “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of everlasting life.”

And this is the crux (crux = cross) of the matter: We must go to Him. We must sit at His feet in rapt attention. We must be Mary rather than Martha. For all of her profound faith (“Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who is coming into the world.” John 11), Martha was preoccupied with this world - a risk to each of us.

My consistent advice is to go before our Lord - either reposed in the Tabernacle, or exposed at adoration, and simply spend time with our Beloved. Remembering here that He loved us first.

Go and sit, pray, read scripture, or simply contemplate Him. He knows why you came, but tell him anyway. Express your doubts, fears, uncertainties. Then, be as patient with Him as He has been with you.

As Fr. Benedict Groeschel† so aptly put it: “You can spend your life looking forward to it, or looking back on it, but when you are aware that He is there, you will be changed.”
 
Last edited:
I suggest The Case For Jesus by Dr. Brant Pitre. He begins by analyzing the objections by such modern critics as Bart Ehrman and goes on to deal with the question of Jesus’ divinity in the synoptic Gospels (i.e., Matthew, Mark and Luke). Dr. Pitre is very readable and extremely knowledgable in the New Testament and Judaism. Lee Strobel’s book The Case for Christ is also good, but I haven’t seen the movie that was made from it.
 
Last edited:
Well…I can empathize on some levels with your nagging haunting idea. There was a Catholic book that really inspired me and put to rest the elements I had of your nagging haunting idea.

It is The Phenomenon of Man written in 1955 book written by the French Jesuit priest Pierre Teilhard de Chardin. I’ll give some warning. It was written posthumously because he was prohibited from writing it when he was alive. For that reason, I would say give the book some patience. It could have used some editing. I think there is still a warning out on Teilhard’s work, but both Pope Francis and Pope Benedict have said positive things about Teilhard’s work. There have been major recent petitions by religious to eliminate the warnings.

The book seems right up your ally based on what your asking. It discusses the evolution of both physical and spiritual aspects of the conscious in humans as a species. For example, why is it that human’s are the only species that has religion. How’d we get here? Then it discusses “what’s next”. You can think of it as discussing how the story the “fish” will continue to grow and should grow. However, it tries to put that ever growing fish story in a positive light. It struggles to do this sometimes, but I think he has the right idea and what he did philosophically was novel.

 
Last edited:
God does not abandon us to our stories, but sits with us, and within us, and enjoys them along with us. The Holy Spirit guides us as we spin yarns, whittle wood until we can see the beauty God wants us to see.

We cannot create an “inadvertently crafted story of the Redemption.” It will only be a story of Redemption if it matches what is within us, if we can recognize God who speaks to us in the depths of our heart. If we know a story as about our Redemption, it is only because others have put their encounter with God into the story. God guides the whittling hands not by overpowering us, but by gentle caresses that let our love express itself.

Read the Scriptures. There you can trust the Holy Spirit is guiding us. As you learn to hear God there, you will recognize God in other voices. The crafting of a tale will reveal what is in the teller, and you may discover its harmony with your own song. Trust that God is present with you.
 
I wish to thank everyone who has replied. I have not had a chance to read them all in detail. I will, and will respond. Thank You.
 
Second strong vote for The Case For Jesus by Dr. Brant Pitre

The Lee Strobel book is a good, lighter read. I’ve never seen the movie, can’t say if it is cheesy or not 😉

Above all, prayer “Lord, I believe. Help my unbelief.”
 
Mijoy2 said:
Again, time could have played a key role. Stories get told, one to another to another and inadvertently get fine tuned to tell a story. The truth gets whittled, like a log from a tree, into a beautiful sculpture that fits the imagination of the one doing the work. For this reason Messianic Prophesies do not necessarily help my faith. These prophesies could be part of the whittling process, the fine tuning, where the narrative ends up fitting the desired outcome.

I think we have all done it. Told fish stories, where the fish gets a tad bit bigger and the fight gets a tad bit more dramatic with every passing telling of the story. No ill will intended, just a desire to believe makes the story ever so slightly different with each telling, some things get cut while other things get embellished.
Click to expand...
@Mijoy2,
I realize this is a little late, but let me comment on part of your post that I quoted above. This is the second time, in as many weeks, that the whole concept of oral transmission of history has been misrepresented and called into question. Yes, we have all told our “fishing story” I suppose, each time we tell it, we exaggerate a little more, or add a little color here or there. But its a bad analogy to oral history in various cultures. Imagine if you will, that you caught that big fish and went home and showed it to your family and neighbors. All of the sudden, its a lot harder to inflate the story, too many people knew the story at the beginning. If one person changes it, he might get away with it, but sooner or later someone is going to correct the flawed story. That is how oral history (or literature for that matter) used to work. Lots of people, nay everyone, knows the story. It becomes very, very difficult for anyone to change it. Oh, a parent may change it a little for their kid, but then that kid grows up and hears the story told the correct way several times and realizes his parents got it wrong. Indeed, oral history had a self-correcting tendency and when the stories first got put to paper, that is where the danger came in for corrupting the story, as there were not that many copies but yet people trusted the written word. One scribe might have been able to change it for good. However, with respect to the scriptures, there is actually no evidence that this happened to any significant extent.

Also, the prophecies themselves were written quite a while before Christ, they would not have been modified in any great detail.

May I also suggest reading C.S. Lewis’s book: “Mere Christianity” or Ronald Knox’s “The Belief of Catholics”, for two very good defenses of the “birth of Christianity”. I think either will do much to remove your doubts.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top