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PaulinVA
Guest
Jeanne, I understand what you are saying but people marching to preserve statues to treasonous insurectionists who were fighting to continue enslaving fellow humans are not good people.
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F_Marturana
Guest
Regarding the states ad Charlottesville.
Pretend there is was a town that had a statue of Homer Simpson. The town planned on removing it. You go to protest it, you’re a Simpsons fan, and you want the town to keep the statue up for whatever reason.
When you get there, you find hundreds of protestors armed with clubs shouting “death to all residents of towns named Springfield “.
Would you stay? Or would you leave and think, “oh gosh, I’ll support Homer in another way.”
Because, I don’t know if very fine people would want to associate with a club weilding mob bent on wanting to kill people because they live in Springfield.
Pretend there is was a town that had a statue of Homer Simpson. The town planned on removing it. You go to protest it, you’re a Simpsons fan, and you want the town to keep the statue up for whatever reason.
When you get there, you find hundreds of protestors armed with clubs shouting “death to all residents of towns named Springfield “.
Would you stay? Or would you leave and think, “oh gosh, I’ll support Homer in another way.”
Because, I don’t know if very fine people would want to associate with a club weilding mob bent on wanting to kill people because they live in Springfield.
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Cathoholic
Guest
Rockoh22 . . .
That is right Rockoh22!
Washington Examiner – 5 Aug 19
Dayton shooter reportedly supported gun control, Elizabeth Warren, and socialism
More information is being reported on Connor Betts, 24, the deceased gunman who shot and killed nine people and wounded 27 others in a mass shooting early Sunday morning.
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dvdjs
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How is this on topic?
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Annie
Guest
You realize the Founding Fathers were “treasonous insurrectionists,” don’t you?
Robert E Lee was a very good man but a man of his place and time. He actually didn’t want to fight for the Confederacy, bit did so because back then one was more of a citizen of one’s state, since the union between the states was much less centralized than it is now.
We all make mistakes. I hope that in 100 years our nation will look back on the acceptance of abortion with as much horror as we look on the acceptance of slavery back then.
But just as many people are willing to accept Hillary Clinton because of her good qualities while “accepting” her error of supporting legal abortion, many see the good qualities of a very honorable man, and “accept” that he too was caught in a bad swirl of history and so did something that was not seen for what it was the way it is now.
And that some have feelings of culture and heritage in the South means does not mean that they are racist, any more than an Italian-American’s feelings of Italianness means an acceptance of Fascism or the Mafia, or any more than a Catholic’s respect for the successor of Peter means we accept Peter’s denials of Christ.
Additionally, Lee has been somewhat glorified in the eyes of people from the South. In the same way that the vices of popular figures such as JFK were skipped over in what was publicized about them, so was Lee’s very strained relationship with slavery.
Despite their knowledge of Ted Kennedy’s “event” at Chappaquidic, and what that implied as well, and his turn-around on abortion, people from Massachusetts returned him to DC election after election, and he was granted an elaborate Catholic funeral.
Life is complex. In many ways, Lee rose to the occasion, but he also failed miserably in other areas, often caught in situations not of his own making.
So let people honor him for his good points, of which there were many. You seem to apply less respectful principles than did the knights of the Crusades towards Suleiman, whom they respected as a great military man while understanding the need to fight him.
Disagree with them about Lee, about the statue, but do not put everyone you disagree with into the class of “not good people,” because many other “good people” are mistaken about other things, and shunning people is as counter-productive in politics as it is in religion.
Robert E Lee was a very good man but a man of his place and time. He actually didn’t want to fight for the Confederacy, bit did so because back then one was more of a citizen of one’s state, since the union between the states was much less centralized than it is now.
We all make mistakes. I hope that in 100 years our nation will look back on the acceptance of abortion with as much horror as we look on the acceptance of slavery back then.
But just as many people are willing to accept Hillary Clinton because of her good qualities while “accepting” her error of supporting legal abortion, many see the good qualities of a very honorable man, and “accept” that he too was caught in a bad swirl of history and so did something that was not seen for what it was the way it is now.
And that some have feelings of culture and heritage in the South means does not mean that they are racist, any more than an Italian-American’s feelings of Italianness means an acceptance of Fascism or the Mafia, or any more than a Catholic’s respect for the successor of Peter means we accept Peter’s denials of Christ.
Additionally, Lee has been somewhat glorified in the eyes of people from the South. In the same way that the vices of popular figures such as JFK were skipped over in what was publicized about them, so was Lee’s very strained relationship with slavery.
Despite their knowledge of Ted Kennedy’s “event” at Chappaquidic, and what that implied as well, and his turn-around on abortion, people from Massachusetts returned him to DC election after election, and he was granted an elaborate Catholic funeral.
Life is complex. In many ways, Lee rose to the occasion, but he also failed miserably in other areas, often caught in situations not of his own making.
So let people honor him for his good points, of which there were many. You seem to apply less respectful principles than did the knights of the Crusades towards Suleiman, whom they respected as a great military man while understanding the need to fight him.
Disagree with them about Lee, about the statue, but do not put everyone you disagree with into the class of “not good people,” because many other “good people” are mistaken about other things, and shunning people is as counter-productive in politics as it is in religion.
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Rockoh22
Guest
Ok. Every American stops supporting Trump. Great, now what? Mass shootings stoped? America heals? Who is it that we need to support? Biden? Warren? Sanders? Who?
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dvdjs
Guest
- We may be able to shift the Overton window back to a reasonable place and see an end to the fringe who have gotten it into their heads to shoot up Hispanics, blacks, Jews, etc,
2, Moreover, we might introduce some modification of current gun regulations that lessen the damage in these events and reduce their frequency.
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Annie
Guest
A small number in the area of random mass shootings, so what about the rest?
And they’ll use a different weapon, or modify a legal weapon, or… …
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dvdjs
Guest
The Making and the Breaking of the Legend of Robert E. Lee (Published 2017)
Historians have long debated Lee’s place in American history, and that battle continues today.
The Making and the Breaking of the Legend of Robert E. Lee (Published 2017)
Historians have long debated Lee’s place in American history, and that battle continues today.
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Annie
Guest
If you had read my entire post, you would have seen that I got into the fact that he was not as good in all areas of his life. I probably should have worded that part more like this: he is seen as a very good man…
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dvdjs
Guest
We will support universal background checks for a start. And continue with these and other measures until we are no longer such an anomaly among the nations,
Recent assailants were subdued within a minute. They still inflicted mass casualties. That is because of the weapons they used.
Even if we cannot prevent all events, we can do better. The rest of the world does.
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Annie
Guest
Vehicles. …
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dvdjs
Guest
Even if we cannot prevent all events, we can do better. The rest of the world does.
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Annie
Guest
My point is that it won’t be through gun control. If we want to do better we have to do something else, like finding the source of the problem and fixing that.
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RuthAnne
Guest
The article you posted didn’t say anything about hecklers. It was talking about someone throwing things at the president (tomatoes). That goes far beyond heckling and I’m fine with the president, or anyone, for that matter, defending themselves against bodily harm. If I were in the crowd and saw someone about to assault someone else, I’d do what I could to prevent it.
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dvdjs
Guest
What is “it”? We were talking about making things better in ways that include reducing the number of casualtie caused by a shooter. Modest extension of current gun laws will help.
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Annie
Guest
So what exactly are you suggesting?
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dvdjs
Guest
- That the leaders of this nation express contrition for their inflammatory rhetoric and amend their lives.
- That Trump rescinds his elimination Obama’s mental health restrictions on gun ownership.
- That House bill on universal background checks for gun purchases be passed by the Senate and signed by Trump.
- That legislation be passed to restrict ownership of particular types of weapons that allow shooters to fire rounds beyond a certain rate.
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Jeanne_S
Guest
It’s on topic because it magnifies the reall ideology of these shooters.You don’t think it’s relative because it doesn’t fit the narrative of blaming Trump
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dvdjs
Guest
The topic is the editorial of Jenifer Rubin.
Introducing incidnets in which shooter were not animated by Trump is a deflection. It is also a strawmn argument. No on has said that every shooter is inspired by Trump. And the idea that finding a shooter who opposes Trump is somehow exculpatory - that just show how weak the defense of Trump is.
I think it is not relevant to this discussion because it isn’t. . Moreover, the evidence that the Dayton shooter’s politics motivated his shooting remains to be demonstrated. The case in El Paso, where the shooter travelled 10 hours to hunt down Hispanics at the border is celar.
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